Matthew Golden should probably be our pick

[WillieBeamen]

COnTeStEd cAtChEs

They are going to be the same ones complaining about “separation” and how Dak doesnt have help

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Golden like the other wide receivers in this draft is player you would like to pick in 20s or the top of the second round. Is he really better than what we have in Tolbert.

Dude.

 

[baltcowboy]

Dude.

Dude, you really don’t understand football if you think a college player with one year of solid production is better then a 4th year receiver that score 8 tds last season with trash quarterback play.

 

[CCBoy]

Golden is projected to be a compliment to Lamb. Compliment! With strong receiving skills and world class speed as a player. This combination will blow out the affects on the sidelines...half the field from the start.

As to production of Golden, lay off the popularity contest of a Longhorn backdrop. They play football for real again. As to deep success, go back check the torn side muscles for it's QB and project again. He IS for real and worth what he projects, for the Cowboys. He is a strong offensive tool.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Dude, you really don’t understand football if you think a college player with one year of solid production is better then a 4th year receiver that score 8 tds last season with trash quarterback play.

If you were able to make Tolbert draft eligible this year there is zero chance he would go 1st round....32 out of 32 teams would take Golden over him in a heartbeat.

 

[baltcowboy]

If you were able to make Tolbert draft eligible this year there is zero chance he would go 1st round....32 out of 32 teams would take Golden over him in a heartbeat.

Drafting is about projecting. Golden two years from now will probably be better than Tolbert but right now Tolbert is the better player. That is my whole argument. These receivers in this draft are lower first round talents at best.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Drafting is about projecting. Golden two years from now will probably be better than Tolbert but right now Tolbert is the better player. That is my whole argument. These receivers in this draft are lower first round talents at best.

And I would still take any of the top 5 guys (Hunter, McMillan, Golden, Burden, Egbuka) over Tolbert for this year, and probably more than just those 5. Tolbert's production is extremely replaceable and he really should be viewed as a WR3 at best. The last couple draft classes late 1st rounders and even later guys are outperforming Tolbert from day 1. WR is simply not a position with a massive learning curve from college to the NFL level.

Last couple draft classes late 1st (20th or later)/2nd round WR picks have been Brian Thomas, Marvin Mims, Ladd McConkey, JSN, Jordan Addison, Keon Coleman, Adonai Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, Ricky Pearsall, Xavier Legette, Zay Flowers, Rashee Rice, Jayden Reed, Johnathan Mingo, and Quentin Johnston. I would take every single one of those guys even as rookies over Tolbert with the exception of Mingo. Johnston would probably be one I could go either way, but would probably take Johnston just for the upside.

 

[baltcowboy]

And I would still take any of the top 5 guys (Hunter, McMillan, Golden, Burden, Egbuka) over Tolbert for this year, and probably more than just those 5. Tolbert's production is extremely replaceable and he really should be viewed as a WR3 at best. The last couple draft classes late 1st rounders and even later guys are outperforming Tolbert from day 1. WR is simply not a position with a massive learning curve from college to the NFL level.

Last couple draft classes late 1st (20th or later)/2nd round WR picks have been Brian Thomas, Marvin Mims, Ladd McConkey, JSN, Jordan Addison, Keon Coleman, Adonai Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, Ricky Pearsall, Xavier Legette, Zay Flowers, Rashee Rice, Jayden Reed, Johnathan Mingo, and Quentin Johnston. I would take every single one of those guys even as rookies over Tolbert with the exception of Mingo. Johnston would probably be one I could go either way, but would probably take Johnston just for the upside.

You are underestimating Tolbert. He would have had 1,000 receiving and 10 touchdowns if Dak did not get hurt.

 

[CCBoy]

Drafting is about projecting. Golden two years from now will probably be better than Tolbert but right now Tolbert is the better player. That is my whole argument. These receivers in this draft are lower first round talents at best.

Way too much stereotyping that does not match with actual talents draftable.

 

[Verdict]

I keep trying to yell people this. Maybe they'll listen if you say it

If you have Dak at the helm your passing game is always going to be feast (against the bad teams) or famine (against any strong defensive team). Dak needs help at WR now. We don’t have time to raise a baby wr with Dak.

I would fill the WR position via FA or UDFA. There are tons of receivers coming out of college these days.

Cowboys need work at all over. This doesn’t need to be a forced pick kind of deal. Draft BPA all the way through this draft. Fill the holes in the second round of FA. Make your run next year when you can fill your remain holes in the draft.

 

[thunderpimp91]

You are underestimating Tolbert. He would have had 1,000 receiving and 10 touchdowns if Dak did not get hurt.

Based on what? He averaged 44 yards per game in the games Dak started....several of those came on semi garbage time stats after we were down multiple scores. I don't want to hold that too much against him as all WRs will get those opportunities, but the Cowboys were playing from behind often when Dak was playing. The one game I would give Tolbert a ton of props in under Dak is the Pittsburgh game, but the other 7 he seemed very ordinary.

Ceedee Lamb has 1,026 yards over 13 games with Rush as QB. That is the sign of a really good WR. You're numbers will be slightly dependent upon your QB, but they shouldnt be drastically dependent like you're claiming Tolbert to be. From an effiency standpoint with Dak at QB Tolbert ran 313 routes and got 353 yards which comes out to 1.12 yards per route ran. Without Dak he had 240 routes for 257 yards or 1.07 Y/RR. The drop off here was a lot more to do with opportunities than anything else. The deeper metrics are showing that the QB change effected his numbers by about 5%.

Tolbert had the 19th most routes ran in the entire league this year for WRs. His numbers from 2024 are largely based on quantity over quality. And yes the Cowboys QB situation saw one of the most snaps from their backup, but we saw 59 different QBs receive starts this season. It's not like Tolbert was the only WR around the league getting throws from backup players.

 

[baltcowboy]

Based on what? He averaged 44 yards per game in the games Dak started....several of those came on semi garbage time stats after we were down multiple scores. I don't want to hold that too much against him as all WRs will get those opportunities, but the Cowboys were playing from behind often when Dak was playing. The one game I would give Tolbert a ton of props in under Dak is the Pittsburgh game, but the other 7 he seemed very ordinary.

Ceedee Lamb has 1,026 yards over 13 games with Rush as QB. That is the sign of a really good WR. You're numbers will be slightly dependent upon your QB, but they shouldnt be drastically dependent like you're claiming Tolbert to be. From an effiency standpoint with Dak at QB Tolbert ran 313 routes and got 353 yards which comes out to 1.12 yards per route ran. Without Dak he had 240 routes for 257 yards or 1.07 Y/RR. The drop off here was a lot more to do with opportunities than anything else. The deeper metrics are showing that the QB change effected his numbers by about 5%.

Tolbert had the 19th most routes ran in the entire league this year for WRs. His numbers from 2024 are largely based on quantity over quality. And yes the Cowboys QB situation saw one of the most snaps from their backup, but we saw 59 different QBs receive starts this season. It's not like Tolbert was the only WR around the league getting throws from backup players.

49 receptions 610 yards 7 touchdowns with playing with mostly dead duck Cooper Rush passes. Ok.

 

[thunderpimp91]

49 receptions 610 yards 7 touchdowns with playing with mostly dead duck Cooper Rush passes. Ok.

And what did he do when Dak was starting? Its not like he was a drastically different player by any measure. Lamb didn't see a major drop off with QB change.....Cooks saw better numbers without Dak (Not sure when his injury issues really started though)...Turpin saw better numbers without Dak. Turpin regressed, but extremely little after Dak. The only player that really saw a significant reduction in production was Ferguson which may or may not have been more injury related than anything. Dak is certainly a better QB than Rush, but none of the data from 2024 suggests that the overall production was much different for each QB. Its really more of a matter of it looking completely different.

Propping up a 49/610/7 stat line is just odd. Its even more odd when you consider the amount of playing time he got. 54th in yards, 54th in catches but was 19th in opportunities. To me this isnt a flex and he underperformed. Even if we want to give him a slight bump in numbers due to the QB situation lets also bump every WR catching passes from the other 25 backup QBs making starts outside of Dallas. This is the same outdated logic we used a couple decades ago when we celebrated 1000 yard rushers even though they racked up 300-350 carries per year.

Tolbert is a solid #3, excellent #4 guy. Outside of Dallas he wouldn't be higher than that on many depth charts.

 

[baltcowboy]

And what did he do when Dak was starting? Its not like he was a drastically different player by any measure. Lamb didn't see a major drop off with QB change.....Cooks saw better numbers without Dak (Not sure when his injury issues really started though)...Turpin saw better numbers without Dak. Turpin regressed, but extremely little after Dak. The only player that really saw a significant reduction in production was Ferguson which may or may not have been more injury related than anything. Dak is certainly a better QB than Rush, but none of the data from 2024 suggests that the overall production was much different for each QB. Its really more of a matter of it looking completely different.

Propping up a 49/610/7 stat line is just odd. Its even more odd when you consider the amount of playing time he got. 54th in yards, 54th in catches but was 19th in opportunities. To me this isnt a flex and he underperformed. Even if we want to give him a slight bump in numbers due to the QB situation lets also bump every WR catching passes from the other 25 backup QBs making starts outside of Dallas. This is the same outdated logic we used a couple decades ago when we celebrated 1000 yard rushers even though they racked up 300-350 carries per year.

Tolbert is a solid #3, excellent #4 guy. Outside of Dallas he wouldn't be higher than that on many depth charts.

You think Tet and Golden our superior 2s. I have my doubts. The passing offense is about Lamb. It would be a wasted resource. Tolbert is perfect.

 

[stilltheguru]

You think Tet and Golden our superior 2s. I have my doubts. The passing offense is about Lamb. It would be a wasted resource. Tolbert is perfect.

I agree. I said IF we take wr I'd take golden, but like I keep saying......in a playoff game with Dak, having two number 1 wrs doesn't do anything. He needs defense, running game and oline before pass catchers. How people watch week after week and can't see that is crazy

 

[John813]

I think I’d rather have some of these other players plus an extra pick.

Problem is I don’t know why teams would want to trade up in this draft.

We need a team desperate for OL help to move up probably.

I think one player to watch is if Will Campbell falls to #12. Miami has Armstead who makes Tyron Smith look invincible.
Paul, Miami's pick last year for tackle was raw like Guyton. Not sure if they are going to be locked on Paul and improvement or try to keep upgrading their line to keep Tua from scrambling his brain some more.


Miami may take Campbell if he goes to #13. So, a potential trade back could be Dallas allowing a team to leap Miami for Campbell.

although, I would probably take Campbell, lol.
Better LOT prospect than Guyton.

 

[Rayman70]

2 things to think about with Golden.

1. A lot of people may have him as the Top WR in this draft so these mocks are likely not accurate.

2. A lot of people have a actual first round grade on him.

He’s not just projected to go in round 1 he actually grades as a round 1 player.

There is too much not to like. There is high upside. He spent 1 year at Texas and played big in big games.

As you pointed out, he's a clean draft pick. Everytime they needed a game changing play, it was him. His routes are fluid.

 

[thunderpimp91]

You think Tet and Golden our superior 2s. I have my doubts. The passing offense is about Lamb. It would be a wasted resource. Tolbert is perfect.

You're entitled to your opinion, I simply don't understand it at all. It's really tough to be a great offense in this league without either an excellent duo of WRs or a QB who can run. Tolbert is a guy who on film does the easy things well. Hes an excellent create space on the comeback route guy, but all the analytics show thats already the easiest route to get separation on.

I agree. I said IF we take wr I'd take golden, but like I keep saying......in a playoff game with Dak, having two number 1 wrs doesn't do anything. He needs defense, running game and oline before pass catchers. How people watch week after week and can't see that is crazy

This is the better reason to not go WR. You have what should be a decent D...lets put in the additional resources in attempt to make it great. Our best hope offensively is to run the football well and build off that. I'm just not sure 'well we already have Tolbert' is a valid reason to not invest in the position.

 

[Rayman70]

Only issue I have with taking a wr early is what about the run game? How many rookie receivers are what puts teams over the top when it's playoff time? Almost none. It's always the big uglies. The weather plays a big role in the playoffs and if your a team the relies on your receivers mostly, you stand to lose quickly. I want to run the ball effectively and dominate. That travels well no matter the conditions or what is at stake. Love Golden, but our early pick must be closer to a generational player, an enforcer, a bad dude. I can't rule out Booker or Membou at 12. Both are exactly what I stated. Booker is just meaner than hell. He's a leader too. He wants to beat ya up. Id pick him over Golden. Or if Graham,Jeanty fall. We gotta have a guy that moves the needle big.

 

[Rayman70]

As you pointed out, he's a clean draft pick. Everytime they needed a game changing play, it was him. His routes are f

And what did he do when Dak was starting? Its not like he was a drastically different player by any measure. Lamb didn't see a major drop off with QB change.....Cooks saw better numbers without Dak (Not sure when his injury issues really started though)...Turpin saw better numbers without Dak. Turpin regressed, but extremely little after Dak. The only player that really saw a significant reduction in production was Ferguson which may or may not have been more injury related than anything. Dak is certainly a better QB than Rush, but none of the data from 2024 suggests that the overall production was much different for each QB. Its really more of a matter of it looking completely different.

Propping up a 49/610/7 stat line is just odd. Its even more odd when you consider the amount of playing time he got. 54th in yards, 54th in catches but was 19th in opportunities. To me this isnt a flex and he underperformed. Even if we want to give him a slight bump in numbers due to the QB situation lets also bump every WR catching passes from the other 25 backup QBs making starts outside of Dallas. This is the same outdated logic we used a couple decades ago when we celebrated 1000 yard rushers even though they racked up 300-350 carries per year.

Tolbert is a solid #3, excellent #4 guy. Outside of Dallas he wouldn't be higher than that on many depth charts.

Though I love the player and what he brings to us, I can think of other more needle moving players that we can take. Can't rule out Warren either. Pair him with Ferguson oh my...then schoon. That helps our Oline massively btw. We can use 12 personnel. Jam the rock down defenses throats. Run run run. Then do Play action off it . Warren might be the better pick because the kid does a lot.