MB3: A Top 5 back in the league

[Mavs Man]

Regarding giving Barber 20 carries here on out, I see no reason to overwork him with the playoffs less than a month away. Save that for January.

 

[Rampage]

Regarding giving Barber 20 carries here on out, I see no reason to overwork him with the playoffs less than a month away. Save that for January.

he will have the 1st round bye to rest up. gotta get him prepared for january where i'm sure he will be getting most of the carries.

 

[percyhoward]

Look at the stats for the first half and we are POOR at running the ball.

Without a doubt, our most successful games running the ball have been the ones where we shut down the opposing offense , dominated time of possession, and wore down the defense in the 2nd half. We have improved our 1st half run game over what it was after 8 games, but there is still room for improvement.

The question, how to improve? Just by running more? Or maybe it matters who is doing the running.

first half split
Jones 54% of carries @ 3.7 per carry
Barber 46% of carries @ 4.4 per carry

Julius gets the bigger share of the workload, despite low production. 3.7 ypc would rank 25th in the team category over a whole game. Notice Barber's 4.4 in the first half. That's not POOR at all. It would rank 4th.

second half split
Jones 38% of carries @ 3.9 per carry
Barber 62% of carries @ 5.3 per carry

See how Julius improves only slightly in the second half. Although defenses wear down in the 4th quarter, he's only averaging 2.9 in the 4th. It's his worst quarter.

I agree that the OL is not opening up big holes in the first half. But isn't that an even bigger reason to give the ball to the back who is better at breaking tackles?

 

[CF74]

Untill wade lays the law down, redball will not run the ball even 20 times a game.

Man I'd be happy with 17 touches:bang2:

 

[Kolemmitt]

Without a doubt, our most successful games running the ball have been the ones where we shut down the opposing offense , dominated time of possession, and wore down the defense in the 2nd half. We have improved our 1st half run game over what it was after 8 games, but there is still room for improvement.

The question, how to improve? Just by running more? Or maybe it matters who is doing the running.

first half split
Jones 54% of carries @ 3.7 per carry
Barber 46% of carries @ 4.4 per carry

Julius gets the bigger share of the workload, despite low production. 3.7 ypc would rank 25th in the team category over a whole game. Notice Barber's 4.4 in the first half. That's not POOR at all. It would rank 4th.

second half split
Jones 38% of carries @ 3.9 per carry
Barber 62% of carries @ 5.3 per carry

See how Julius improves only slightly in the second half. Although defenses wear down in the 4th quarter, he's only averaging 2.9 in the 4th. It's his worst quarter.

I agree that the OL is not opening up big holes in the first half. But isn't that an even bigger reason to give the ball to the back who is better at breaking tackles?

Wow! Great breakdown. I wonder what Barber would do if we had big time full back blocking for him? Hoyte seems to be a good blocker, but can do nothing else for the offense so his snaps are limited. Anderson looked promising but who know for sure? I am all for adding Schmitt or the kid from Arkansas on day 2.

 

[Paniolo22]

And for some reason, Julius trips over those white lines, and even the imaginary yellow ones. They reach up and grab his ankles.


Give MBIII the ball more.

What are you guys watching? Jones doesn't go down untouched, in fact in the last couple of weeks he's been running hella hard. I'm not an advocate for Jones, but it seems like the only times that he loses yards are when he runs into piles. That is what is frustrating, it seems like his vision has been lacking the last couple of years.

 

[percyhoward]

What are you guys watching? Jones doesn't go down untouched, in fact in the last couple of weeks he's been running hella hard. I'm not an advocate for Jones, but it seems like the only times that he loses yards are when he runs into piles. That is what is frustrating, it seems like his vision has been lacking the last couple of years.

Jones needs to bust it outside a lot more than just 15% of his carries. The league average is about 20%; Barber takes 21% of his runs to the sideline. I'll never understand why JJ doesn't do it more, especially after complaining about being a robot. He's got 5 yards guaranteed if he would just run straight at the TE's outside shoulder at full speed.

 

[Paniolo22]

Jones needs to bust it outside a lot more than just 15% of his carries. The league average is about 20%; Barber takes 21% of his runs to the sideline. I'll never understand why JJ doesn't do it more, especially after complaining about being a robot. He's got 5 yards guaranteed if he would just run straight at the TE's outside shoulder at full speed.

Agreed. He used to have one of the most wicked cut backs of any back I had seen. Somewhere along the line, Parcell's really did a number on his psyche and he no longer can find daylight on his own, he ALWAYS follows the play regardless if it leads him into a pile of 20 players.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

He needs about 20 touches a game. You start giving him 25-30 a game and then you'll have to start looking at burning him out. I sort of like what Julius provides, but the problem is that he gets too many carries for 0 yardage and it often kills drives. So if Dallas could get a Julius type who doesn't get those 0 yard gains, I'd be quite happy.




YAKUZA

 

[mmillman]

Barber isn't even a top 20 back in this league. What he is, is a very punishing blocker and runner with little speed, good not great power and good hands.

 

[Derinyar]

To see us run the ball a lot more than we are doing now I think we probably need to get a better back. I really think the coaching staff knows what its doing with Barber's carries. He has very few carries during his career past the 15 carry mark, but in those carries his numbers look pretty good 21 for 95. But 24 of those yards came on one carry.

I think theres very little reason to expect that Barber is going to get a lot better with an increased per game work load, and there seems to be evidence that shows that he quite likely won't get better with an increased per game work load.

As to how much we run/pass in a given game, I suspect that has a lot to do with how the coaches see our top weapons on offense. Our top three players are all involved in the passing game on offense. Romo, TO, and Witten. If you just want to talk weapons I'd say our top three weapons are TO, Witten, and then Barber. If I was coaching I'd probably try to use my best weapons more often, in compairson to my weaker ones.

For us to become a consistent running team we are going to have to get a better RB.

 

[percyhoward]

I think theres very little reason to expect that Barber is going to get a lot better with an increased per game work load, and there seems to be evidence that shows that he quite likely won't get better with an increased per game work load.

For us to become a consistent running team we are going to have to get a better RB.

You stated that side of it very well, and I think the powers that be agree with you. But I don't see the evidence that Barber's average would go down considerably (and it would have to go down a full yard per carry) to justify NOT giving him five of the carries that JJ currently gets.

Remember, he doesn't have to get "a lot better" as you say, with extra carries. In fact, he doesn't have to get any better than himself at all, he just has to be better than the other guy.

 

[Paniolo22]

Barber isn't even a top 20 back in this league. What he is, is a very punishing blocker and runner with little speed, good not great power and good hands.

He's got 5 carries of over 20 yards, 2 of over 40. How much speed does he need? How often has he been caught from behind? Not in the top 20 is ridiculous. Starters in this league that I may consider better than Barber include LT, Addai, Jackson, All Day, Westbrook, and maybe Gore. The rest are debatable

 

[percyhoward]

Starters in this league that I may consider better than Barber include LT, Addai, Jackson, All Day, Westbrook, and maybe Gore. The rest are debatable

Don't know if you saw this, but it might affect your opinion.

Through 176 carries (what Barber has so far)

Name         Yards     TD
Peterson     1,134     9
Barber       871       9 
Westbrook    851       5
Addai        791       7
Parker       789       2
James        766       5 
Portis       759       6 
Tomlinson    732       8

So the thinking would have to be that Barber will basically fall apart with any more carries, and I don't see any reason to think so.

 

[Paniolo22]

Don't know if you saw this, but it might affect your opinion.

Through 176 carries (what Barber has so far)

Name         Yards     TD
Peterson     1,134     9
Barber       871       9 
Westbrook    851       5
Addai        791       7
Parker       789       2
James        766       5 
Portis       759       6 
Tomlinson    732       8

So the thinking would have to be that Barber will basically fall apart with any more carries, and I don't see any reason to think so.

I did see it, but I'd still take LT, Addai, Peterson, Westbrook, and Jackson ahead of him. Gore is debatable. My question about the table is how was it figured out for each runner at exactly 176 carries? I'm pretty sure no back hit 176 at the end of a particular game. If it is accurate, kudos to whoever would take the time to do it.

 

[03EBZ06]

MB3 is the real deal, however I don't believe he can handle 25+ carries for 16+ games.

Not too many RBs carry 25+ for 16+ games and when they do, they typically don't run very well following season.

I don't think anyone want to see MB carry 25+ per game, rather would like to see him carry more than 12 times a game, perhaps 17 to 20 times.

 

[percyhoward]

My question about the table is how was it figured out for each runner at exactly 176 carries? I'm pretty sure no back hit 176 at the end of a particular game. If it is accurate, kudos to whoever would take the time to do it.

I can take the kudos for the NFC half of it, which I can assure you is accurate. Theogt did the other half, so if there's a mistake there, you'll know where to complain.

It's easy to do, if you know how to find the play-by-play, and you're persistent enough in getting a point across, I guess. I'm surprised there isn't even more debate about Barber because it's a topic that should be debated, and it's always better to mix a little fact in with the opinions, I think.