CFZ McCarthy vs Payton: Edge Big Mac

[Bobhaze]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

 

[rambo2]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

Also, there is no way that the Cowboys will give up a first round draft pick for any coach.

 

[NVMe_Zo]

MM has done the best out of any coach we’ve had since our last Superbowl and that’s literally been my whole time as a fan so that’s all I have to judge it by. When I read posts about him being replaced I just laugh, people swear goat head coaches are the only ones that would make them happy. I am a fan of Sean Payton tho… my son is a die hard Saints fan so it would be lovely to win with him for personal reasons, other than that MM is the answer, love it or not.

 

[Bobhaze]

MM has done the best out of any coach we’ve had since our last Superbowl and that’s literally been my whole time as a fan so that’s all I have to judge it by. When I read posts about him being replaced I just laugh, people swear goat head coaches are the only ones that would make them happy. I am a fan of Sean Payton tho… my son is a die hard Saints fan so it would be lovely to win with him for personal reasons, other than that MM is the answer, love it or not.

McCarthy has 5 road playoff wins to 1 for Payton. I have a feeling winning road playoff games is the key to our post season this year.

 

[Jake]

I can only attribute the Payton fascination to his previous Cowboys ties and owning a home in Dallas, despite him also owning homes in Louisiana and California.

There's nothing about his track record suggesting he's an upgrade, and let's not forget he was suspended for an entire season for condoning a bounty system.

 

[noshame]

Not sure Payton is my guy.
Mike's success was largely because the league let the packers hold on offense for YEARS. It wasn't until other teams began using the "HUG" technique the league finally stopped allowing it. Immediately the packers offense began to faulter, Roger's was pummeled, and within 2 years McCarthy was fired. So I'll take a legit coach like Payton over MM
However you'd think the next great coach is out there. somewhere, somewhere....

 

[Risen Star]

MM has done the best out of any coach we’ve had since our last Superbowl and that’s literally been my whole time as a fan so that’s all I have to judge it by. When I read posts about him being replaced I just laugh, people swear goat head coaches are the only ones that would make them happy. I am a fan of Sean Payton tho… my son is a die hard Saints fan so it would be lovely to win with him for personal reasons, other than that MM is the answer, love it or not.

I would bet a lot of money that Mike McCarthy couldn't have taken over the 2003 Cowboys and leave them a young playoff contender in 4 years.

Other than that GOAT, I'm with you.

 

[DoctorChicken]

I agree for the most part. It’s interesting how McCarthy gets hated on by so many people from every fan base, while Payton is universally treated as a great coach.

I do think Payton is better at time management. I think he’s a better playcaller, and his coaching tree is really impressive. He’s obviously a great offensive mind.

But Mike’s record speaks for itself. He’s definitely doing something right, and he deserves major credit.

 

[DB_Cooper]

I like Payton but he was pretty average without Brees. McCarthy seems to be able to do more with less. I was at the 2013 Packers / Cowboys game where Matt Flynn beat us. Since then I’ve thought he was one of the better coaches in the league and still do. I wish he’d be a little more involved with the offense though.

 

[Bobhaze]

I agree for the most part. It’s interesting how McCarthy gets hated on by so many people from every fan base, while Payton is universally treated as a great coach.

I do think Payton is better at time management. I think he’s a better playcaller, and his coaching tree is really impressive. He’s obviously a great offensive mind.

But Mike’s record speaks for itself. He’s definitely doing something right, and he deserves major credit.

Payton is better in front of a camera. And he’s certainly a very good HC. But he’s no better than McCarthy. And Big Mac was able to lead this team the playoffs in back to back seasons for the first time in 15 seasons. And all that with the most meddlesome, big mouthed owner in sports.

 

[rambo2]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

If Dallas wins the Super Bowl. McCarthy will be a Hall of Famer.

 

[john van brocklin]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

Another big consideration:
Cost to obtain.
Mac, under contract
Sean , multiple draft picks

 

[john van brocklin]

I like Payton but he was pretty average without Brees. McCarthy seems to be able to do more with less. I was at the 2013 Packers / Cowboys game where Matt Flynn beat us. Since then I’ve thought he was one of the better coaches in the league and still do. I wish he’d be a little more involved with the offense though.

This ^^^^
This is my issue.
If Sean were to come here, he would get to be more in charge and install his offense.
Mac has ceeded the offense to Moore which drives me nuts.
Macs strength is supposed to be offense!!!

 

[Beast_from_East]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

Only way MM does not come back next year is if the Bucs just totally destroy us, like 51-7 type beat down. Other than that happening, I dont see Jerry firing MM.

 

[Reality]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

The real issue is Payton brings his own offense and based on news reports he already has a defensive coordinator in mind, a good one in fact (Fangio).

Our experience with McCarthy so far has been with the same offensive coordinator and a bad hand-chosen defensive coordinator before landing a good one that will likely be gone after this year.

I would like to think the McCarthy can find success with other coordinators, but his first choice for defensive coordinator was a really bad one and that combined with Moore having success before McCarthy arrived makes me question how good he is without great coordinators.

At this point, I think it is too early to make any determination on whether McCarthy, Payton or someone else is a better option for the Cowboys.

If the Cowboys fail to make a deep run to the Super Bowl yet again, then I think it is fair to wonder if McCarthy is the right guy.

 

[817Gill]

To me it’s not a record thing, it’s a read between the lines thing. If you read up on all the tid-bits written and spoken about both throughout their careers, Sean Payton has been regarded as an offensive genius and a true leader of men. Mike’s compliments have come from his win loss record, seldom if at all has it been about his football acumen, schematics, or leadership.

Players, coaches, and execs around the league have for years and even into the present day lauded Payton for his smarts and leadership. Mike’s reputation has mostly been born from his win/loss record and his player-friendly atmosphere.

I’ll give a few anecdotal examples:

-Greg Jennings who played for McCarthy for years has staunchly defended him after his firing in GB. But his defense has never been about McCarthy’s advanced schematic knowledge or presence, but more about soft skills like listening to his players and assistants. Players who’ve played for Payton such as Jonathan Vilma start by calling him a genius or guru and go into him being a real confidence-boosting leader. I find all the former player analysis of Payton to be much more substance based than McCarthy’s.

-Mike has been on record saying he doesn’t believe in motion. Mike is our head coach and we still don’t even know what he does lol. Kellen calls plays on O and Quinn on D. Tangibly, what’s Mike’s value? Yes we are winning so he deserves credit for sure. But what actually can you say he does? This has never even remotely been a question with Payton.

-McCarthy’s first choice for DC was Mike Nolan lmao. Payton’s is Vic Fangio. Mike held on till the end with senile Dom Capers, Payton hired Dennis Allen who annually had a top flight D. One shows the propensity to stay with buddies and the other shows a propensity for bringing in real coaching talent. Just a small example of the difference in sharpness between the two.

-Look at all the negative things said about Mike his last 4-5 years. Laziness, low IQ, lack of attention to details, and a stale outdated scheme have all been criticisms of McCarthy. Payton’s criticisms have been about being an overbearing and overly competitive guy who can suck the air out of the room. Payton has never ever been criticized for a lack of football intelligence or coaching ability. Just looking at what folks in the league say negatively about both, it’s quite clear who’s the better coach. Give me the A-hole who’s an offensive guru over the guy who you can’t quite tell me what he does well. The things that Mike has been knocked for will never ever be said about Payton.

-Lastly, would anyone, absolutely anyone, trade a first round pick for Mike McCarthy’s services? Not a chance. Multiple teams are more than willing to do so for Payton. Mike was available and the league wasn’t drooling to hire him and he wasn’t seen by anyone as the top option in the coaching cycle. Payton is by far seen as the top option for any opening. Does that not tell y’all something? Don’t you think teams would look at the W/L record and treat them the same like y’all are saying they are? The league knows infinitely more about the coaches than we do, and their actions speak quite clearly.

At some point we have to understand that as fans we only know the W/L record. NFL players, owners, and execs know a lot more about who each guy really is as a coach. When one is widely regarded as a top 5 HC and teams are more than willing to trade draft capital for them and the other is widely regarded as “meh” by the folks who do the hiring and playing, isn’t it quite simple to see who’s got the goods and who doesn’t?

I like Mike, he’s the best coach we’ve had since Parcells. But he’s still a 10-15 range HC, good but no one today thinks he’s an elite HC. Payton was widely regarded as a top 5 HC when he stepped down just a year ago. Just looking at the win/loss record and seeing similar numbers doesn’t make them the same.

We all know where these two guys fall on the coaching ladder, let’s not fool ourselves by looking at the W/L record and claiming they are the same guy. I was going to make a thread myself about this but since we been winning I didn’t feel the need to rain on the parade. But had to let it be known here.

 

[DB_Cooper]

Another big consideration:
Cost to obtain.
Mac, under contract
Sean , multiple draft picks

Jerry hates eating coaching contracts. Can’t really blame him but it’s the reason we had Garret for so long.

 

[john van brocklin]

Jerry hates eating coaching contracts. Can’t really blame him but it’s the reason we had Garret for so long.

Ugh

 

[TNCowboy]

Cowboy fans are so delusional.

Mike McCarthy will soon be fired by Jerry Jones. Whether or not it's 1 month or 13 months from now remains to be seen. I'd lean towards early 2024, because Jones won't want to pay 2 coaches at once. Then McCarthy will be finished, no team will ever hire him again. The only team that would have considered hiring him 3 years ago was the Cowboys.

Sean Payton will be the hottest commodity on the coaching market in years. He can almost name where he wants to be and his price. Doesn't matter whether his record justifies that money and hype or not. Everyone wants Payton, no one wants McCarthy.

IMO, the biggest reason is Payton has an identity. He has an offensive system where he runs tons of formations with different personnel. OTOH, McCarthy has no identity. He's a big, fat guy who only won because he had Brett Favre and then Aaron Rodgers. He has no offensive system, it's Kellen Moore's, and the defense is ran by Quinn. There's nothing else there. The team doesn't adopt his personality, because he doesn't have one.

Once SF or Phi embarrasses the Cowboys in January, we'll have rounds of threads about why he should be fired, and a handful of homers will defend why he shouldn't. The sad fact is McCarthy is only slightly more consequential to the Cowboys' fortunes than those of us posting in this thread. He doesn't run this team, the Jones family does. Until that changes, it won't matter.

I would add, you should all hope the Cowboys hire Payton. He has options, half the league will want to hire him. He won't choose Dallas if he has no roster control and if the old fool will remain on his draft warroom throne come April. Hiring him would signal a gigantic, hopeful shift in the way the team is ran. Which is why it won't happen.

 

[817Gill]

Cowboy fans are so delusional.

Mike McCarthy will soon be fired by Jerry Jones. Whether or not it's 1 month or 13 months from now remains to be seen. I'd lean towards early 2024, because Jones won't want to pay 2 coaches at once. Then McCarthy will be finished, no team will ever hire him again. The only team that would have considered hiring him 3 years ago was the Cowboys.

Sean Payton will be the hottest commodity on the coaching market in years. He can almost name where he wants to be and his price. Doesn't matter whether his record justifies that money and hype or not. Everyone wants Payton, no one wants McCarthy.

IMO, the biggest reason is Payton has an identity. He has an offensive system where he runs tons of formations with different personnel. OTOH, McCarthy has no identity. He's a big, fat guy who only won because he had Brett Favre and then Aaron Rodgers. He has no offensive system, it's Kellen Moore's, and the defense is ran by Quinn. There's nothing else there. The team doesn't adopt his personality, because he doesn't have one.

Once SF or Phi embarrasses the Cowboys in January, we'll have rounds of threads about why he should be fired, and a handful of homers will defend why he shouldn't. The sad fact is McCarthy is only slightly more consequential to the Cowboys' fortunes than those of us posting in this thread. He doesn't run this team, the Jones family does. Until that changes, it won't matter.

I would add, you should all hope the Cowboys hire Payton. He has options, half the league will want to hire him. He won't choose Dallas if he has no roster control and if the old fool will remain on his draft warroom throne come April. Hiring him would signal a gigantic, hopeful shift in the way the team is ran. Which is why it won't happen.

Some similarities with what I posted a couple comments above this. When the league clamors for hiring one guy and is so-so about the other, it’s pretty obvious who’s the better coach.

By the W/L record logic, Mike would’ve been just as coveted during his coaching cycle. He was interviewed by two teams before us and both let him out of the building without an offer. Every open job this cycle would be Payton’s if he wanted it to be.

GM’s and owners know, let’s stop trying to act like their paper resumes trumps all the real life signs.