CFZ McCarthy vs Payton: Edge Big Mac

[Hawkeye0202]

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

I agree.......MM will likely win at least 12 games this season. In a normal year, that's usually enough for a divisional title and maybe home field but not this year. You don't fire a HC after a 12-13 game-win season, especially with a couple of years left on his contract, you just don't. In other words all signs points to MM returning regardless of what happens in the post-season.

BTW......I now think Payton goes to Denver. Notice after Hackett was fired, the owner said the new coach will report directly to him. He's basically clipping the wings of the GM but is apparently keeping him around to help the new coach clean up the mess he made.

 

[AsthmaField]

The stats and W/L record tells a story and is a useful tool to compare them, but like in everything else, it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Both coaches won a super bowl and then kind of slowly had their team fall back to average (or worse).

However, in Green Bay, McCarthy had a GM that would do nothing in free agency and had a terrible run in the draft for his last few years. They had crap on defense. Thompson did a terrible job of putting players around Rodgers and it really put Mike in a bad spot.

In New Orleans, the GM constantly was getting big ticket items in free agency and had some really good drafts. They spent so much in free agency that New Orleans is now completely in salary cap hell and is in worse shape than any team has ever been. They did everything in their power to put as much talent around Brees as possible.

Payton had much more to work with in the late part of his coaching tenure than Mike.

When the Pack fired McCarthy, they also “retired” Thompson. The first thing the new GM did was go on a huge FA spending spree on defense, which fixed the main problem that Mike had to deal with, which allowed the team to improve immediately.

That had to be difficult for McCarthy to watch, because that is exactly what he needed but couldn’t get.

Anyway, I do think that Payton got much more help to achieve essentially the same record that Mike did.

Take that for what you want.

 

[CouchCoach]

You can add to that McC didn’t walk off on his team and leave them with those QB’s.

Members here complain about pass happy, what do they think Payton is? That’s why he was demoted in NY.

Payton also chews gum like a Valley girl. McC doesn’t chew gum. If they’d allow it, he’d chew tobaccy because he’s a real man.

 

[mahoneybill]

I like Payton but he was pretty average without Brees. McCarthy seems to be able to do more with less. I was at the 2013 Packers / Cowboys game where Matt Flynn beat us. Since then I’ve thought he was one of the better coaches in the league and still do. I wish he’d be a little more involved with the offense though.

I like Payton but he was pretty average without Brees

Good point Brees, the combo of Kumara, and Brees kept D’s guessing re run or pass. Also receivers were to me better under Brees...

 

[kuyyo_morro]

Mcarthy's teams have blown big leads in important playoff games. Seahawks vs Packers 2014 game comes to mind. Packers had 16pt lead with 3-4mins to go in 4th qtr and they lose the game. We have seen with Cowboys also against Jags and Packers where we blew the lead. These are coaching issues. We wont find such gut wrenching losses with Sean Payton. Payton's teams lose fair and square because of out-talented but not because of stupidity like we have seen with Mcarthy teams.

Sean Payton also has shown to be aggressive such as starting off with onside kick in a super bowl.

 

[CouchCoach]

Mcarthy's teams have blown big leads in important playoff games. Seahawks vs Packers 2014 game comes to mind. Packers had 16pt lead with 3-4mins to go in 4th qtr and they lose the game. We have seen with Cowboys also against Jags and Packers where we blew the lead. These are coaching issues. We wont find such gut wrenching losses with Sean Payton. Payton's teams lose fair and square because of out-talented but not because of stupidity like we have seen with Mcarthy teams.

Sean Payton also has shown to be aggressive such as starting off with onside kick in a super bowl.

You might want to check the end of that no call PI game for exceptionally stupid play calling.

 

[TNCowboy]

I agree.......MM will likely win at least 12 games this season. In a normal year, that's usually enough for a divisional title and maybe home field but not this year. You don't fire a HC after a 12-13 game-win season, especially with a couple of years left on his contract, you just don't. In other words all signs points to MM returning regardless of what happens in the post-season.

BTW......I now think Payton goes to Denver. Notice after Hackett was fired, the owner said the new coach will report directly to him. He's basically clipping the wings of the GM but is apparently keeping him around to help the new coach clean up the mess he made.

Very unlikely, imo. Tons of draft picks traded away and stuck with Russell Wilson. Far better landing places than Denver.

 

[blueblood70]

I like Payton but he was pretty average without Brees

Good point Brees, the combo of Kumara, and Brees kept D’s guessing re run or pass. Also receivers were to me better under Brees...

3 straight 7-9 seasons with healthy Brees as well. Its wash that why you dont go giving up draft picks for Payton to fire mike..makes zero sense,..

 

[75boyz]

Yeah,
Opinions will vary widely. Payton for me in a landslide.
I just can't picture what I've witnessed of Payton publicly and full knowing he was mentored under Parcells, as doing all the dumb team related public s**t that McCarthy has done on and off the field.
And continues to do.

Thought Payton was/still would be the best chance to re store discipline, accountability and most importantly a possible shift in culture. IF he was allowed to. Which is the whole point to being hired as the HC of the Cowboys nowadays. Conceding to Jerry's ways is a part of the head coaching contract.

So in order for Payton to be hired he would hafta sell out his integrity as a coach and be a Yes Man like McCarthy did in order to collect his retirement portfolio paychecks as McCarthy is doing.

Can't picture Payton doing that but money does strange things to people.

Payton and his offense, without Moore.
Fangio as the new DC.
Doesn't sound too bad in my opinion.
But like I said, opinions vary.

 

[rambo2]

whey should they,?? and why are we talking about replacing the HC??

Especially when the coach has the best record in the NFC over the last 2 years.

 

[blueblood70]

Especially when the coach has the best record in the NFC over the last 2 years.

right, these fans are in such hurray to get rid of Garett then only giving the new very successful HC only 3 years when year one was so bad with injuries, transitions, covid and other factors , truly doesn't count in my eyes.. 21-22 shows how much MM has heled tget this team get back on track.. B2B double digit win season with the playoff appearances. Not cine 1996! I know payoff wins are important, but he has 2 valid years to try and get us over that hump, he deserves 1 more. i mean we played poorly and lost by 6 to the 9ers, most said that was horrible, i say it showed how good we could be if we played cleaner game ie not have 14 penalties and a lazy ref involved.

 

[blueblood70]

Yeah,
Opinions will vary widely. Payton for me in a landslide.
I just can't picture what I've witnessed of Payton publicly and full knowing he was mentored under Parcells, as doing all the dumb team related public s**t that McCarthy has done on and off the field.
And continues to do.

Thought Payton was/still would be the best chance to re store discipline, accountability and most importantly a possible shift in culture. IF he was allowed to. Which is the whole point to being hired as the HC of the Cowboys nowadays. Conceding to Jerry's ways as a part of the head coaching contract.

So in order for Payton to be hired he would hafta sell out his integrity as a coach and be a Yes Man like McCarthy did in order to collect his retirement portfolio paychecks as McCarthy is doing.

Can't picture Payton doing that but money does strange things to people.

Payton and his offense, without Moore.
Fangio as the new DC.
Doesn't sound too bad in my opinion.
But like I said, opinions vary.

sorry, NOT worth the draft picks, nope, not close.. if you take out the draft picks maybe Payton has slight wedge over MM. reality says no way Jerry should even entertain that, im sorry make zero sense given MM success here given all the adversity.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

I think he’s back regardless what happens in playoffs . We are Wild Card. No one really expects us to make a run in the playoffs.

But you don’t fire the HC who for the first time since 2007 takes you to consecutive playoff appearances which looks like should be 3 consecutive for first time since the 90’s.

That said , we’ll probably lose Quinn. And we’ll see who else we lose in Cap moves. It might not be a gimme we make playoffs next year. Our division is much improved. At some point a deeper run might be needed to continue on for MM.

But until we have more success in playoffs then MM really hasn’t accomplished anything more than Bill, Wade or Garrett have this era .

 

[rambo2]

I think he’s back regardless what happens in playoffs . We are Wild Card. No one really expects us to make a run in the playoffs.

But you don’t fire the HC who for the first time since 2007 takes you to consecutive playoff appearances which looks like should be 3 consecutive for first time since the 90’s.

That said , we’ll probably lose Quinn. And we’ll see who else we lose in Cap moves. It might not be a hummus we make playoffs next year. Our division is much improved .

But until we have more success in playoffs then MM really hasn’t accomplished anything more than Bill, Wade or Garrett have this era .

There are some people that expect the Cowboys to contend. I am one of them. We will see how it works out. I think the Eagles are going to struggle and the Cowboys are going to do well.

 

[Diehardblues]

Also, I’ve never bought into the Payton hype coming here. I still don’t think this is a destination reputable HC’s would choose over other franchises .

 

[HungryLion]

Based on statistics your point is valid. Few things to consider. In New Orleans I believe the SYSTEM was special and Brees really flourished in it. Lets not forget he was a castoff from San Diego. In Green Bay. MM had Favre and Rodger maybe; 2 of the top 5 QBs ever (top 10 worst case). I personally would prefer Payton I feel he gives the team an edge on Sundays and is more innovative.

Drew Brees was only a cast off from San Diego because he got hurt and they drafted Phillip Rivers because they didn’t know if Brees would recover or not.


Brees made a pro bowl in San Diego and was very good his last 2 seasons there.


Drew Brees was the 33rd pick in the draft and the best QB in Big 10 history while playing for Perdue. He is still the record holder for most passing yards in Big 10 history despite playing in college over 20 years ago.

Sean Payton didn’t make Drew Brees. He was a great QB.

 

[75boyz]

sorry, NOT worth the draft picks, nope, not close.. if you take out the draft picks maybe Payton has slight wedge over MM. reality says no way Jerry should even entertain that, im sorry make zero sense given MM success here given all the adversity.

Yeah, I shoulda mentioned as a condition that I wouldn't give up our first.
McClay does very well in the first.

I'm okay with the second and a player(s)

 

[Diehardblues]

There are some people that expect the Cowboys to contend. I am one of them. We will see how it works out. I think the Eagles are going to struggle and the Cowboys are going to do well.

Expecting to contend is fine . I think we can hang with anyone in NFC. But expecting a Wild Card team to win them all on the road when they’ve never had much success in playoffs is asking a lot.

 

[rambo2]

Expecting to contend is fine . I think we can hang with anyone in NFC. But expecting a Wild Card team to win them all on the road when they’ve never had much success in playoffs is asking a lot.

It looks to me that they will have a shot at winning any game that they play. I feel that the Eagles and Vikings will be losing playoff games and anything can happen. The Cowboys could very well have a home playoff game or games.

 

[eromeopolk]

I’m going to say it right up front- I don’t understand why so many Cowboys fans act as if Sean Payton is the next HC in Dallas because he’s “special”. McCarthy’s resume is almost identical, even better in some areas, AND- what’s he’s done the last two years is very impressive.

Yes, Big Mac needs to win some playoff games for sure. But IMO, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets around here.

So let’s look at resumes of McCarthy vs Payton:
McCARTHY

• AGE: 59
• Regular Season Record- 154-96-2 (.615)
• Record at Dallas- 29-19 (.604)
• Playoff Record- 10-9 (.526)
• Road playoff Record: 5-4
• SB titles: 1

PAYTON

• AGE: 58
• Regular Season Record- 152-89-0 (.631)
• Playoff Record- 9-8 (.529)
• Road Playoff Record: 1-5
• SB Titles: 1

Sorry, I just don’t get the Sean Payton as savior thinking. The resumes are almost the same. But- Big Mac has 5 ROAD PLAYOFF WINS TO PAYTON’S 1.

Barring a collapse in the next month, Mike McCarthy is back next year. And should be.

No ex-Parcells coach or player is coming to be apart of Jerry's World. Parcells was the one to tell Payton to get out of Dallas after Jerry's T.O./the Player mess.

Sean Payton built a team from scratch as the Saints were horrid and coming off of Hurricane Katrina drama with their owner. Sean found a QB, and built a team with the GM that consistently won being literally cheated out of a Super Bowl appearance with a no call pass interference in 2018 so the New Stadium LA Rams could go to the Super Bowl.

McCarthy was so good in New Orleans that he did not even consider the HC position Sean Payton got in 2006. McCarthy took the layup job with Brett Farve as his QB and Rodgers in the wings. However, Sean proved his coaching medal and leadership taking that Saints team and making them winners.