McGinn Draft Series Part 6: RB

[TheMarathonContinues]

Anybody that looks at the draft this way shouldnt be taken seriously.

Let’s say in 3 years when “our holes are filled”, would you want Ashton Jeanty on this team or Damien Martinez?

I’d rather have Jeanty in the 3rd round than Martinez.

It’s the Zeke vs Henry argument. Henry in the second round was smarter than Zeke in the first.

Jeanty is cool. I’d rather have a DT or receiver then go running pm back in the second or third.

 

[chicago JK]

Man, there are a ton of good backs. I just am not sure I want to wait to round 3. Get one of your top 5 backs in the draft and move on. Heck, I would like to double dip. Two rookie backs and Deuce Vauhgn. Lets go. Get rid of the retreads.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Wish we had our 4th round pick. That appears to be the perfect spot to snag a RB.

Cowboys have 10 picks. Trading up to get a 4th pick back shouldn't be too difficult. Realistcally, how many 5th or 6th round picks ever pan out? Not that many. Trade several late picks for the 4th, if someone will do it.

If you can't do that probably just go with who you have now and build the o-line.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Stupid picks from #3 - #9. Just plain dumb.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You can make arguments against any of the backs, even Jeanty. It comes down to what you're looking to do - be a run-first team, pass first team, use RBBC or use a bell cow back, build a super defense and try to win that way, etc. etc.

I've always been a fan of a balanced team, equally good (as much as possible) at all 3 phases of the game.

So I'm not taking a RB at 12, too many holes to fill, trade down to late first round or very early second round. Personally, I'd take the Iowa kid if available in the second, with a stout o-line he'd be plenty good enough.

 

[Mikexike]

10. BHAYSHUL TUTEN, Virginia Tech (5-9, 206, 4.29, 3-4): Fastest back on the board. “He ran that 4.2 and you see that on the field,” one scout said. “He is the most explosive of all these guys. Runs hard, too. You get him in a crease or the open field and it’s over with. He’s the closest one to (Jahmyr) Gibbs as far as, if there’s a crease, it’s over. He’s in the mix as my No. 2 running back (in the draft).” Tuten’s vertical jump of 40 ½ also led the position. His broad jump was 10-10. “I’m a big fan,” another scout said before the combine. “After the combine things will change. He has a chance to run in the 4.3s. He’s talented.” Played his first two years at FCS North Carolina A&T. In two seasons, he carried 245 times for 1,578 (6.4) and 16 TDs to go with 41 receptions. In Blacksburg, he started 23 of 24 games, carrying 356 times for 2,022 (5.7) and 25 TDs to go with 50 receptions for 320 and four scores. “He tested really well,” said a third scout. “Not particularly big. We thought he was a good backup in the fourth or fifth.” Returned 37 kickoffs for 25.7 and two touchdowns and five punts for 2.2. “I wasn’t a huge fan,” said a fourth scout. “He’s just one of those guys that’s a good football player with a pretty average set of skills. Not the biggest, not overly elusive but he’s got good vision, he runs hard and he’s a really good kid. He’ll be a guy where the starter gets hurt and he comes in and runs for 600, 700 yards as a No. 2 or No. 3. But I don’t ever see him being a No. 1 or No. 2 type guy.” From Paulsboro, N.J., where in high school he ran 60 meters in 7.03.

give me this guy in the 3rd please

 

[gimmesix]

I think the problem is we have so many holes that we need starters and our best bet is the first 2 rounds. We can still get a RB in the 3rd.

I'm OK with waiting until the third round if Jeanty is not there in the first. There's a real chance that Jeanty could be our next Emmitt, so I'm not going to pass on that just because we can get a lesser RB in the third. Now, after Jeanty, I'm not sure if the quality we can get in the second is that much different than what we can get in the third.

I'm drafting two backs, though, one in the first three rounds and one on Day 3 to increase my chances of finding a quality starter. As you can tell in scouts' opinions of each back, the expectations for them can vary greatly. In a back-heavy class with a team that doesn't have a sure starter, I think you give yourself as much of a shot as possible at finding one.

My choices would probably be Harvey in the third and Gordon in the fifth, but it seems that McGinn expects Gordon to go earlier than I would.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I'm OK with waiting until the third round if Jeanty is not there in the first. There's a real chance that Jeanty could be our next Emmitt, so I'm not going to pass on that just because we can get a lesser RB in the third. Now, after Jeanty, I'm not sure if the quality we can get in the second is that much different than what we can get in the third.

I'm drafting two backs, though, one in the first three rounds and one on Day 3 to increase my chances of finding a quality starter. As you can tell in scouts' opinions of each back, the expectations for them can vary greatly. In a back-heavy class with a team that doesn't have a sure starter, I think you give yourself as much of a shot as possible at finding one.

My choices would probably be Harvey in the third and Gordon in the fifth, but it seems that McGinn expects Gordon to go earlier than I would.

I always hoped we would snag two backs out of this draft. I like Jeanty. Wear and tear on the running back is what scares me about investing a top pick in a back.

 

[gimmesix]

I always hoped we would snag two backs out of this draft. I like Jeanty. Wear and tear on the running back is what scares me about investing a top pick in a back.

I understand, and that does hurt their value. I just believe four years of a great player are better than four years of a good player, and I think there is a very good chance that he will be great. Obviously, any player can miss or get hurt, but if he is there at 12, he's great value and I believe you take him.

Now, if he's gone, then even though I like Hampton, I do believe that there's not much difference between him and several other backs. Could he turn out to be better than Jeanty? Absolutely, look at Henry vs. Zeke. But the odds are that Jeanty is going to be special.

I also believe even if we got Jeanty I'd draft another back in this deep draft because you never know how things are going to turn out and we at least need the best No. 2 we can provide. A 1-2 punch of a great back and a very good back is better than just having one strong punch.

 

[gimmesix]

I’d rather have Jeanty in the 3rd round than Martinez.

It’s the Zeke vs Henry argument. Henry in the second round was smarter than Zeke in the first.

Jeanty is cool. I’d rather have a DT or receiver then go running pm back in the second or third.

Only because Henry turned out to be the better player. Would you have rather had Harold Green or Leroy Hoard in the second round instead of Emmitt in the first in 1990?

A couple of years ago, the argument would have been that backs aren't as valuable now, but I think that's been disproven. A special back can make a big difference.

 

[cnuball21]

I think Giddens' rushing style kind of belies his athletic talent. He kind of has this shifty, stop-start, spin out of tackles style like he's a 200 lb scat back, but he's 212 and runs a 4.43. And he's got elite short-area burst metrics. Giddens could probably drop his shoulder and power over half the dudes on defense like a Judkins, he just doesn't want to.

As a pure rusher, I'm sold on him. I think he's a 2nd-3rd type guy. You probably want to pair him with a more capable passing-game back for negative game script situations, but in a favorable situation, you could feed him 20 carries and get 100 yards.

I like him but he doesn’t play to his timed speed at all.

He just is not able to hit home runs.

 

[tm1119]

I like him but he doesn’t play to his timed speed at all.

He just is not able to hit home runs.

He reminds me a lot of Charbonnet when he was coming out of UCLA a few years ago, just a little smaller. Both were good all around backs that check a lot of boxes…but to me neither have 1 standout “wow” skill. Type of guys that have the skill set to make the most out of what’s given, but not a ton more.
Charbonnet hasn’t really gotten his shot to be a #1 back yet so maybe I’ll look silly in a few years for not really liking him.

 

[NDGAEDE]

I like him but he doesn’t play to his timed speed at all.

He just is not able to hit home runs.

He definitely looks slower than he times, and yet he still hit 6.6 per carry--more than Johnson, Hampton, Judkins, Sampson, and basically every back other than Jeanty and Henderson.

And his athleticism isn't just a good 40, he tested extremely well across the board--and at the combine no less, not an unofficial pro day. It's not like he was able to cram before his testing to boost his scores. This guy is a real athlete, to go along with his excellent instincts and vision as a runner.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Only because Henry turned out to be the better player. Would you have rather had Harold Green or Leroy Hoard in the second round instead of Emmitt in the first in 1990?

A couple of years ago, the argument would have been that backs aren't as valuable now, but I think that's been disproven. A special back can make a big difference.

Well Henry wasn’t a hindsight pick. Now did I think Zeke would have a better career? Yes. But it was getting Ramsey and then Henry that was enticing.

So follow me here…..

When has drafting a special back in the first round resulted in a ring?

Eagles signed Barkley didn’t draft him.

Doesn’t seem necessary in roster building.

 

[gimmesix]

Well Henry wasn’t a hindsight pick. Now did I think Zeke would have a better career? Yes. But it was getting Ramsey and then Henry that was enticing.

So follow me here…..

When has drafting a special back in the first round resulted in a ring?

Eagles signed Barkley didn’t draft him.

Doesn’t seem necessary in roster building.

Team-building takes more than a running back, just like it takes more than a quarterback. Each player is a piece of the puzzle, not the whole of it.

Do you think the Eagles make the Super Bowl without Barkley? Doesn't matter whether they drafted him. It matters if he was an essential part of the team.

Now, do I believe we'll go to the Super Bowl if we draft Jeanty? No. But I also don't believe we'll go to a Super Bowl if we draft McMillan or Nolen or pretty much anyone we can get with the 12th pick. But that's because the Joneses don't build a team around our star players.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Team-building takes more than a running back, just like it takes more than a quarterback. Each player is a piece of the puzzle, not the whole of it.

Do you think the Eagles make the Super Bowl without Barkley? Doesn't matter whether they drafted him. It matters if he was an essential part of the team.

Now, do I believe we'll go to the Super Bowl if we draft Jeanty? No. But I also don't believe we'll go to a Super Bowl if we draft McMillan or Nolen or pretty much anyone we can get with the 12th pick. But that's because the Joneses don't build a team around our star players.

What I mean is look at the Eagles for instance and how they’ve built their team. They’ve focused on the offensive and defensive lines. Never have they invested high in a RB. Are the Eagles the same team drafting Bijan over Jalen Carter?

In this resurgence of the running back it’s important to
Know what compensation these teams are using on these backs. And I might be missing someone but out of all the playoff teams the Lions used a high pick on Gibbs. Ravens, Vikings, Texans, Eagles…brought in a free agent back. Rams found Kyren Williams late…..

I agree with you a team is a big puzzle. Some pieces bigger than others. But where I disagree at is I don’t believe my puzzle piece is any bigger or smaller by getting Hampton later on in the draft then getting Jeanty. But I also can potentially find another piece to finish my puzzle by finding a defensive starter in the 1st round.

And let’s say McMillian is the pick. Will we regret it if he has the same career as Jeanty but as a receiver?

 

[Mr_437]

I feel the same way as the last scout on Omarion Hampton. My guy Tahj Boyd in the 3rd, it's possible. Also, Martinez could go in the 3rd too...it just depends on what a team wants. Dallas wants to be physical, so those are the guys I've took a liking too.

 

[Mr_437]

Also, I don't get the drive bys on Etienne. I see a really good running who could end up being like James Cook (Dalvin Cooks brother). He blocks, runs routes, and can run inside or out...that's a lot of value to me. I watched his Florida games then watched Georgia...you gotta watch the Florida.

 

[gimmesix]

What I mean is look at the Eagles for instance and how they’ve built their team. They’ve focused on the offensive and defensive lines. Never have they invested high in a RB. Are the Eagles the same team drafting Bijan over Jalen Carter?

The Eagles don't just depend on the draft so any holes they have, they fill with quality players. So I believe that if the Eagles had not drafted Carter, they would have filled that hole in free agency. Maybe not as well, but they would have gotten a quality DT for the role. Now, would they be the same with Bijan as with Barkley? I don't know. Barkley had a special season, partly because of who he is and partly because of the team around him.

Jeanty would not have that advantage here and certainly would not be the last piece of the puzzle. But neither would anyone else. Has Parsons been a waste because we haven't built a team around him or the last piece of the puzzle because he's a special talent? How about Tyron Smith or Zack Martin? We've wasted the careers of those future Hall of Famers, so I don't know if it matters whose career we waste next.

All I know is Jeanty would be fun to watch, and that's about all I can hope for from my team these days. I enjoyed the Romo days more than I have the Dak days because Romo was more fun to watch IMO. Doesn't mean he gave us any better of a chance of winning because the teams that the Joneses built were flawed.

Your view seems to be based on the concept that team-building in the draft could make a difference. I think it is fruitless as long as we tie one arm behind our backs in free agency, so I will take one of the top five players in this draft over a lower-ranked player who may turn out fine but isn't going to be able to put us over the top any more than Jeanty would.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

The Eagles don't just depend on the draft so any holes they have, they fill with quality players. So I believe that if the Eagles had not drafted Carter, they would have filled that hole in free agency. Maybe not as well, but they would have gotten a quality DT for the role. Now, would they be the same with Bijan as with Barkley? I don't know. Barkley had a special season, partly because of who he is and partly because of the team around him.

Jeanty would not have that advantage here and certainly would not be the last piece of the puzzle. But neither would anyone else. Has Parsons been a waste because we haven't built a team around him or the last piece of the puzzle because he's a special talent? How about Tyron Smith or Zack Martin? We've wasted the careers of those future Hall of Famers, so I don't know if it matters whose career we waste next.

All I know is Jeanty would be fun to watch, and that's about all I can hope for from my team these days. I enjoyed the Romo days more than I have the Dak days because Romo was more fun to watch IMO. Doesn't mean he gave us any better of a chance of winning because the teams that the Joneses built were flawed.

Your view seems to be based on the concept that team-building in the draft could make a difference. I think it is fruitless as long as we tie one arm behind our backs in free agency, so I will take one of the top five players in this draft over a lower-ranked player who may turn out fine but isn't going to be able to put us over the top any more than Jeanty would.

I’ll be honest I’ve been as miserable now as I was in the Romo days. It was no different for me personally. Actually I might say I like this era more because we’ve had some incredible things happen such as the Dak/Zeke rookie year, Bland record breaking year, Diggs record breaking year, Aubrey..way more exciting now for me but miserable because of the same results.

And my view is the opposite. We don’t build through free agency so build as much as you can through the draft. If we were players in free agency I’d care less about finding starters and would be ok with Jeanty in the first. But with the minimal resources I am not ok with it.

I’d of course would love to have him I just don’t think it’s the proper way to build your team when no contender is doing it. I don’t believe in reinventing the wheel if teams are showing you what it takes to contend why not emulate it? Or emulate it as much as you can anyway.

To go back to the 2016 draft do the Cowboys end up any worse taking Ramsey in the first and Henry in the second then they do Zeke in the first and…..Jaylon in the 2nd or Myles Jack or whoever?