McNabb WAS short of the first down.

[proline]

What people miss I think is that forward progress had been called at some point. Go back and listen to the ref. He says that Philly is challenging the forward progress (or something to that effect). All of the sliding down the pile and his final stopping point don't matter if an official blew the whistle that forward progress was stopped some time earlier.

 

[CowboyWay]

It really wouldn't be a big deal at all if the game announcers didn't say they thought McNabb got the first down. Once Collinsworth and his pal said that McNabb did indeed get the first down... then every Eagles fan in the country automatically had something to gripe about.

I don't know why everybody can't see he didn't make it.

Truer words have never been spoken. I couldn't agree more. One those talking heads said they thought it was a first down, the entire city of philly, and apparently the entire journalistic world, had it implanted in their mind that it was in fact a first down, when anyone with a tivo, or some pictures could tell you otherwise.

 

[links18]

Truer words have never been spoken. I couldn't agree more. One those talking heads said they thought it was a first down, the entire city of philly, and apparently the entire journalistic world, had it implanted in their mind that it was in fact a first down, when anyone with a tivo, or some pictures could tell you otherwise.

It wasn't a first down, but the question has become whether or not Philly should have lost a time out. They didn't move the ball at all after the replay, but depending upon what Reid challenged, if they moved the ball one inch (even short of the first down) would he have been able to keep that final time out? We haven't gotten a clear answer to that.

 

[CoCo]

It wasn't a first down, but the question has become whether or not Philly should have lost a time out. They didn't move the ball at all after the replay, but depending upon what Reid challenged, if they moved the ball one inch (even short of the first down) would he have been able to keep that final time out? We haven't gotten a clear answer to that.

See post #36.

 

[CoCo]

When I watched it live it sure looked like he got enough movement forward to pick it up so I can see why the announcers thought so. But that was judging purely from McNabb's forward surge which can be, and obviously was deceiving.

Then almost immediately, before the ball is even spotted if I recall, a couple Cowboys get excited because it appears he was short.

Sure enough, he was. These pictures confirm it. But man that was very, very, close. Almost makes me feel sorry for them.

 

[CowboyWay]

It wasn't a first down, but the question has become whether or not Philly should have lost a time out. They didn't move the ball at all after the replay, but depending upon what Reid challenged, if they moved the ball one inch (even short of the first down) would he have been able to keep that final time out? We haven't gotten a clear answer to that.

Oh, I see. Sorry. You know, thats a damn good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Hoofbite]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/12/pereira-admits-error-in-cowboys-eagles-game/




Any way to contact PFT with these pictures besides the comments section? Someone needs to shut these guys up.

Shut them up for what?

 

[RoadRunner]

I believe this is false, as long as the refs conclude that the original call was incorrect you win the challenge, regardless of whether or not it was the outcome you were hoping for.

For instance, in the New York/San Diego, San Diego challenged that a New York receiver was down by contact hoping to get a fumbe recovery. Instead the refs ruled he never had possesion at all and it was incomplete, but SD still won the challenge and was not charged a TO.

I don't know about that. I remember one Dallas game (I forget against whom) where Dallas challenged the spotting of the ball. The refs agreed that the spot was incorrect, respotted the ball (which was still short of a first down), and charged Dallas a timeout because it didn't get a first down. Dallas was technically correct on the challenge of the spot being wrong yet was still penalyzed a timeout because the challenge didn't result in a first down (even though this was not what Dallas challenged).

The NFL needs to come up with consistent language for the rules concerning what is and is not a successful challenge.

 

[adamknite]

I downloaded the 2006 NFL rulebook, because it was the only one I could find.

This is what's listed under "Instant Replay"



Reviewable Plays. The Replay System will cover the following play situations only:

(a) Plays governed by Sideline, Goal Line, End Zone, and End Line:

1. Scoring Plays, including a runner breaking the plane of the goal line.

2. Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted at sideline, goal line, end zone, and en
line.

3. Runner/receiver in or out of bounds.

4. Recovery of loose ball in or out of bounds.

(b) Passing Plays:

1. Pass ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted in the field of play.

2. Touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver .

3. Touching of a forward pass by a defensive player .

4. Quarterback (Passer) forward pass or fumble.

5. Illegal forward pass beyond line of scrimmage.

6. Illegal forward pass after change of possession.

7. Forward or backward pass thrown from behind line of scrimmage.

(c) Other Detectable Infractions:

1. Runner ruled not down by defensive contact.

2. Runner ruled down by defensive contact when the recovery of a fumble by
an opponent or a teammate occurs during the continuing action of the play.
Note 1: If the ruling of down by contact is changed, the ball belongs to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery of the fumble, and any advance is nullified.
Note 2: Continuing action is any action that occurs through the recovery of the fumble.
Note 3: If the Referee does not have indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered the fumble, the ruling of down by contact will stand.
Note 4: This does not apply to quarterback pass/fumbles, complete/incomplete

3. Forward progress with respect to a first down.

4. Touching of a kick.

5. Number of players on the field.

Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:

1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Forceouts
7. Recovery of loose ball in the field of play
8. Field goals
9. Inadvertent Whistle

 

[RoadRunner]

I downloaded the 2006 NFL rulebook, because it was the only one I could find.

This is what's listed under "Instant Replay"



Reviewable Plays. The Replay System will cover the following play situations only:

(a) Plays governed by Sideline, Goal Line, End Zone, and End Line:

1. Scoring Plays, including a runner breaking the plane of the goal line.

2. Pass complete/incomplete/intercepted at sideline, goal line, end zone, and en
line.

3. Runner/receiver in or out of bounds.

4. Recovery of loose ball in or out of bounds.

(b) Passing Plays:

1. Pass ruled complete/incomplete/intercepted in the field of play.

2. Touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver .

3. Touching of a forward pass by a defensive player .

4. Quarterback (Passer) forward pass or fumble.

5. Illegal forward pass beyond line of scrimmage.

6. Illegal forward pass after change of possession.

7. Forward or backward pass thrown from behind line of scrimmage.

(c) Other Detectable Infractions:

1. Runner ruled not down by defensive contact.

2. Runner ruled down by defensive contact when the recovery of a fumble by
an opponent or a teammate occurs during the continuing action of the play.
Note 1: If the ruling of down by contact is changed, the ball belongs to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery of the fumble, and any advance is nullified.
Note 2: Continuing action is any action that occurs through the recovery of the fumble.
Note 3: If the Referee does not have indisputable visual evidence as to which player recovered the fumble, the ruling of down by contact will stand.
Note 4: This does not apply to quarterback pass/fumbles, complete/incomplete

3. Forward progress with respect to a first down.

4. Touching of a kick.

5. Number of players on the field.

Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:

1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Forceouts
7. Recovery of loose ball in the field of play
8. Field goals
9. Inadvertent Whistle

So basically, you can only challenge the spot if you think it should have been a first down. Other spottings of the ball not resulting in a first down or goal line are non-reviewable, and any challenge of the spot must be an automatic challenge of a first down or goal line. Thus, if it doesn't get the first down on the challenge of a spot, even if the ball is respotted, its a lost challenge.

Thanks for posting that info.

 

[Hoofbite]

Which makes no sense for Periera to say the ball should have been moved but possibly wouldn't (and it wouldn't have) have mattered.

 

[adamknite]

Which makes no sense for Periera to say the ball should have been moved but possibly wouldn't (and it wouldn't have) have mattered.

He could of possibly been talking about moving the ball up some, then remeasuring from that point to determine if it was a first down or not. Meaning that it still may not have mattered if the ball was moved, because remeasuring result would have been the same.

I don't think the officials have that Yellow Line we get on TV, so they would have moved the ball up and remeasured it, and if it still wasn't a first down it wouldn't have mattered, is how I interpreted what he was saying.

 

[links18]

So basically, you can only challenge the spot if you think it should have been a first down. Other spottings of the ball not resulting in a first down or goal line are non-reviewable, and any challenge of the spot must be an automatic challenge of a first down or goal line. Thus, if it doesn't get the first down on the challenge of a spot, even if the ball is respotted, its a lost challenge.

Thanks for posting that info.

Well, instead of challenging forward progress, couldn't Philly have challenged whether or not the runner was down by contact prior to the line to gain. Whether or not a runner was down is challengable regardless of whether or not it results in a first down, correct?

Highly confusing

 

[adamknite]

Well, instead of challenging forward progress, couldn't Philly have challenged whether or not the runner was down by contact prior to the line to gain. Whether or not a runner was down is challengable regardless of whether or not it results in a first down, correct?

Highly confusing

From what I know, that's only challengable on fumbles or if the player was ruled "not down" (meaning you can challenge and say a player was down earlier in the play).

 

[SMCowboy]

Well, instead of challenging forward progress, couldn't Philly have challenged whether or not the runner was down by contact prior to the line to gain. Whether or not a runner was down is challengable regardless of whether or not it results in a first down, correct?

Highly confusing

Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:

1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Forceouts
7. Recovery of loose ball in the field of play
8. Field goals
9. Inadvertent Whistle

That is in the list on non reviewable plays.....

 

[Aikbach]

So is this Philly's 4th an 1 moment? like Switzer in 1995, 'cept Filthy ain't going on to win a Super Bowl.

 

[bbgun]

People need to stop focusing on the unofficial yellow line and instead look at where the stick was. Poor spot or not, McNabb wasn't even close.

 

[TD-33]

I'm so glad that **** organization and their **** following lost. Couldn't happen to a better group.

 

[Hostile]

People need to stop focusing on the unofficial yellow line and instead look at where the stick was. Poor spot or not, McNabb wasn't even close.

Why do you have to tell the truth about this?

 

[eightysiX]

i dont know how soo many people are confused about losing the timeout or not. In soo many games this is explained if the play doesn't result in a first down through the replay (regardless if the ball is moved or not) the challenging team still looses the timeout. The only way you win the challenge and your timeout is if its a first down.