Mel - Round 1 Winners and Question Marks

[Irvin88_4life]

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut. Kiper is more wrong than just about anyone in his predictions. And exactly what do I have a foam finger for? Is that your tired generic accuse someone of being a homer routine because someone disagrees with something written? That's funny, I hadn't revealed what I thought about the Taco pick, until now. I hate it. My guy wasn't even selected in the first round. But what do I know? At least I am cool with being wrong and can hope for the best for the pick, instead of hoping he fails so I can stay firmly entrenched on my position.

I look forward to your predictable "grow up" response, followed by a sarcastic "Go Cowboys".

Dang dude don't own him so bad in 1 post haha

 

[Irvin88_4life]

What I want to know is why Vidauntae dropped off a cliff in the weeks leading up to the draft by Mel and Scouts Inc. He was a top 20ish guy since January, even as high as top 10 with Mel, and then about three weeks ago dropped to a 2nd round value. No explanation. It wasn't his combine performance because both came out with a couple of rankings after that with Charlton still firmly in the top 20-25.

Same reason Wentz got over hyped and shot up draft boards. Experts aren't always right

 

[Idgit]

Can't fault him for grading according to his board. Have a hard time taking it seriously, though, because I don't care about Mel Kiper's board at all. Though I wasn't high on our pick, either.

 

[JeffInDC]

What I want to know is why Vidauntae dropped off a cliff in the weeks leading up to the draft by Mel and Scouts Inc. He was a top 20ish guy since January, even as high as top 10 with Mel, and then about three weeks ago dropped to a 2nd round value. No explanation. It wasn't his combine performance because both came out with a couple of rankings after that with Charlton still firmly in the top 20-25.

Risen, you already know the answer - opinions. Everyone on this board has one, and many times we form that opinion based on how WE want to shape a discussion/argument. So Mel, Todd, ALL OF THEM just randomly decided they needed to drop him for whatever internal reason even though his tape or anything else hadn't changed.

 

[jamesdojr]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/i...-1-winners-question-marks-more-2017-nfl-draft

Winners

1. San Francisco 49ers
The Niners are the early favorite to earn an "A" in my post-draft grades, making two trades and getting two prospects I ranked in my top eight. To move down one spot from No. 2 to No. 3 with the Bears, they also got pick Nos. 67 and 111 this year and a third-round pick in 2018. That's a heist. Then the Niners got their guy anyway, adding defensive lineman Solomon Thomas, a versatile pass-rusher who had a dominant 2016 season.

San Francisco also used pick No. 34 at the top of the second round and the No. 111 pick it got from the Bears to move up to No. 31 and take Reuben Foster, the best inside linebacker in the draft. Off-field issues caused him to drop, but Foster's talent is undeniable. On talent alone, he's a top-five prospect.

In the first draft of the John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan era, San Francisco got the best value of any team. And with needs across the roster, that's a good first step. Now, the 49ers still have a quarterback issue, but this is going to be a long rebuild. I wouldn't be surprised if they take a flyer on a developmental QB in the mid rounds. They have two picks each in the third, fourth, fifth and sixth rounds.

2. New York Jets
The Jets have needs all over their roster, so they get a win for taking the best player available. Jamal Adams is one of the safest picks in this class, a defender who can play in the box, cover tight ends and slot receivers and blitz. He is built for today's NFL. Plus Adams is a winner, too; he was drafted higher than his father, George, who was taken 19th overall in 1985. They made a $50,000 bet about who would be drafted higher. Pay up, George!

3. Cleveland Browns
The Browns? Winners? Yes. Here's why: They didn't overthink Myles Garrett at No. 1. He's the best prospect in this class, and he deserved to be the top pick. They picked up two guys I really liked -- safety Jabrill Peppers, who dropped due to a dilute sample at the combine, and tight end David Njoku -- with two trades. And they got Houston's first-round pick in 2018.

You can argue that they passed on all of the quarterbacks -- and remember, they passed on Carson Wentz last year, too -- but I don't fault the Browns for not taking Deshaun Watson at No. 12 and moving back. He was my No. 3-ranked quarterback and 34th-ranked player overall. They didn't reach for a quarterback they didn't love, and they got a future first-round pick. The Browns now have five picks in the top two rounds next year.

They're going to need a quarterback at some point. I know. But Cody Kessler was decent as a rookie, and he likely was going to take most of the snaps in 2017, anyway. Cleveland will be in the market for a quarterback next year, and the Browns got better today. That's big for their future.

More moves I liked:

• The Commanders got Jonathan Allen, the No. 2 player on my board, at 17. That could be the steal of the draft, as clearly teams were concerned about his shoulder injury. Great value for Washington, which must improve its front seven.
  
  
• If Allen isn't the steal of the draft, it could be his former teammate O.J. Howard, who dropped to the Bucs at No. 19. Howard is the best tight end in the class, a complete player who is already a good blocker. That's rare coming out of college, and he also has elite athleticism.
  
  
• Buffalo got a third-round pick this year and a 2018 first-rounder in a trade with Kansas City. The Bills had the fewest picks in the draft (six, tied with Atlanta), so they desperately needed some draft capital. At No. 27, they picked up Tre'Davious White, a veteran corner who could replace Stephon Gilmore.
  
  
• The Saints ended up with the best corner in the draft at No. 11 in Marshon Lattimore. That probably ends any Malcolm Butler trade rumblings.
  
  
• There were no quarterbacks left on the board at No. 13, so the Cardinals filled the biggest hole on their roster by taking Haason Reddick, who could play inside or outside linebacker.
  
  
• Miami got good value in pass-rusher Charles Harris at No. 22. He's my 12th-ranked prospect.
  
  
• Linebacker Jarrad Davis should start as a rookie for the Lions. I love his intangibles and attitude.

Question marks

1. Chicago Bears
If the Bears think Mitchell Trubisky is their quarterback of the future, I don't question targeting him, even though he was more of a mid- to late-first-round talent on my board. It's what they gave up to get him that I question. To move up one spot, Chicago gave up pick Nos. 3, 67 and 111 this year and a third-round pick in 2018. That's a ton, and the Bears have several needs elsewhere, particularly in the secondary. Mike Glennon could be one-and-done in Chicago -- he has only $18.5 million guaranteed -- and Trubisky could get the developmental year he needs. He has a high ceiling but only one year of collegiate starting experience. This is a risky pick for the Bears' -- and general manager Ryan Pace's -- future.

2. Tennessee Titans
Both of the Titans' picks were reaches on my board. Wide receiver Corey Davis is my 16th-ranked prospect, and Tennessee took him at No. 5. Cornerback Adoree' Jackson is my 30th-ranked player, and Tennessee got him at No. 18. Were there no takers to trade down? Look, I like both of these players, but the value isn't there. Davis wasn't at the combine because of an ankle injury, and we still don't know his true top-end speed. That's a roll of the dice. At his best, he could be a No. 1 wideout for Marcus Mariota, lining up outside and in the slot, and he's great after the catch. As for Jackson, Kevin King was higher on my board, and No. 18 is high for a raw, undersized (5-10, 186) corner who might have to play in the slot as a rookie. He's talented, but he must improve his technique. Now, I should give Tennessee credit for addressing needs. But remember, the Titans don't have a second-round pick because of last year's trade up to get Jack Conklin. They have to hit on Davis and Jackson.

3. Kansas City Chiefs & Houston Texans
I'm grouping these together because of the huge trades they made to move up and take quarterbacks.

Kansas City gave up its first- and third-round picks this year plus its first-round pick next year to take Patrick Mahomes at No. 10. That's a lot to give up for someone who might not see the field for a playoff contender. Mahomes is super raw and toolsy and he certainly needs time to sit. Now he'll get the chance to learn behind Alex Smith, who is signed through 2019. Could Mahomes be a two-year redshirt? Those don't happen much anymore, but he needs some time. Mahomes has a huge arm, but the Texas Tech system he comes from hasn't translated well at the NFL level. He was the No. 26 prospect in my Big Board.

The Texans, meanwhile, surrendered pick No. 25 and a first-round pick next year to move up to No. 12 to take Deshaun Watson, betting big on a guy with a championship pedigree. But Watson had an inconsistent 2016 season, and he has thrown 30 interceptions over the past two seasons. I love his toughness, and I think he'll compete with Tom Savage immediately, but this is a reach on my board (he's ranked No. 34). I saw too many issues on tape to put Watson in the first round on my board.

More lingering questions:

• The Bengals' offense didn't look the same after losing Mohamed Sanu and Marvin Jones in free agency last year, and I had receiver as my top need for Cincinnati. But No. 9 is a little rich for speedster John Ross, who has a history of injuries. He had shoulder surgery in March and missed the 2015 season with a torn ACL.
  
  
• I dropped Taco Charlton to No. 46 on my final Big Board, and the Cowboys took him at 28. I know they need pass-rushers, but T.J. Watt and DeMarcus Walker are higher on my board.
  
  
• Denver, with its choice of any offensive tackle in the class at No. 20, went with soon-to-be 25-year-old Garett Bolles. I'm not sold that he'll stick at left tackle, and he's my third-ranked tackle.

Agree with Mel. I think T.J. Watt should have been the pick. He's more talented plays angry, and i thought what put him over the top woukd be pedigree and the fact that the best dlineman in football right now would teach him. I like Taco but he will br a greg ellis kinda player. Solid to good, but not overly exciting or explosive.

 

[Plankton]

What I want to know is why Vidauntae dropped off a cliff in the weeks leading up to the draft by Mel and Scouts Inc. He was a top 20ish guy since January, even as high as top 10 with Mel, and then about three weeks ago dropped to a 2nd round value. No explanation. It wasn't his combine performance because both came out with a couple of rankings after that with Charlton still firmly in the top 20-25.

The only thing that I can think of is that he polled a number of scouts from teams, and their feedback wasn't strong on Charlton, so he dropped him on his board. Kiper bases a good amount of his stuff on opinions from teams.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

More specifically, draft grades from national talking heads. I am sure teams aren't using Mel's "scouting" to make their picks.

This is entertainment. No reason to look at it beyond that.

 

[Direwolf63]

I had Watt ranked higher too.


I'll give Taco and this team the benefit of the doubt, but I'll also have a keen interest in watching the progress and productivity of both Charlton and Watt.

I have a feeling that the Cowboys had Watt and Taco ranked about the same, with Watts injury history being the tie breaker. It will be interesting to see how their careers evolve.

 

[xwalker]

Draft grades before anyone takes the field has to be the most useless thing in sports.

The comedy about his draft grades is that you get a high grade if you agree with his opinion and a low grade if you disagree with his opinion.

His board is his opinion. Take a player exactly where he ranked him and you win, take a player significantly above where he ranked him and it's a reach. Take a player significantly below where he ranked him and you got great value.

 

[skinsscalper]

Draft grades before anyone takes the field has to be the most useless thing in sports.

Especially when they strip their gears going into reverse the following season when they "re-grade" themselves. I believe we got a C grade for our draft last season immediately after the draft. These blow hards don't know ****.

 

[waving monkey]

Oh, I didn't realize only teams can evaluate.

You do know there are countless times Mel criticized a team's pick and was proven correct, right?

You can relax your foam fist.

and wrong

 

[SportsGuru80]

I don't hold any stock into what Kiper thanks. That stopped a looooooooooooooong time ago.

 

[Sydla]

Any guesses as to who said this?

“They don’t have enough good pass rushers,” Kiper said. “I saw that in the championship game. Guys wear down, and (New England quarterback) Tom Brady took advantage of that interior-wise and outside. Another pass rusher like Taco Charlton or Derek Barnett if there is a pass-rusher there in the late first. Like I said, just look at the Super Bowl. This is a pass-happy league. You’ve got to have more than just one or two. He would certainly help the Atlanta Falcons.”

 

[noletime95]

What I want to know is why Vidauntae dropped off a cliff in the weeks leading up to the draft by Mel and Scouts Inc. He was a top 20ish guy since January, even as high as top 10 with Mel, and then about three weeks ago dropped to a 2nd round value. No explanation. It wasn't his combine performance because both came out with a couple of rankings after that with Charlton still firmly in the top 20-25.

I wondered the same, a couple weeks ago I assumed Taco would be gone by 28, now he's a reach. Guess we will see.

 

[DBOY3141]

The only thing that I can think of is that he polled a number of scouts from teams, and their feedback wasn't strong on Charlton, so he dropped him on his board. Kiper bases a good amount of his stuff on opinions from teams.

Problem could be....do they tell him the truth or do they blow smoke?? Since they know, he takes this information to set his rankings and mocks. Love the cat and mouse game they play.

 

[Stash]

What I want to know is why Vidauntae dropped off a cliff in the weeks leading up to the draft by Mel and Scouts Inc. He was a top 20ish guy since January, even as high as top 10 with Mel, and then about three weeks ago dropped to a 2nd round value. No explanation. It wasn't his combine performance because both came out with a couple of rankings after that with Charlton still firmly in the top 20-25.

It's because he hates our favorite team. So much so that he's willing to look like a fool in the process:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/football/...ugh-good-pass-rushers/Ou37P8GXI63M9aceK0eyjJ/

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The comedy about his draft grades is that you get a high grade if you agree with his opinion and a low grade if you disagree with his opinion.

His board is his opinion. Take a player exactly where he ranked him and you win, take a player significantly above where he ranked him and it's a reach. Take a player significantly below where he ranked him and you got great value.

I mean how else would you expect him to grade drafts?

Incredibly fair how he does it and I see no high comedy in that. As @Idgit said....can't fault a guy grading based off his opinion.

 

[TheFinisher]

I have zero doubt that Taco was a much better pure 43 DE prospect than Watt or Demarcus Walker... not even close really

Watt played around 240-245 for Wisconsin, I'll take my chances with the younger 6'6 280 lb prospect when it comes to battling NFL tackles on an every down basis

 

[phildadon86]

Why? They come from the same evaluations and projections that teams use to draft all these unproven players.

Or are you just a scolded fan?

Considering Kiper had him higher going to the falcons like a week before the draft. And now all of a sudden hes at 46. Kinda shows where Kiper uses his hatred instead of his brain. Last year he gave us a C. That should tell you enough.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

I am not impressed with Watt's tape and he has injury issues. Kiper is a blow hard who is amazingly wrong about most of the draft considering how much time he spends on it.