Merriman vs Ware, the debate continues after ONE season

[theogt]

Adam, could you post the TFL and other stats (for Ware/Merriman) you posted the other day? I'd like to bookmark the post.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I know better than to question you on stats Adam, but I SWEAR my eyes saw him get them unblocked on more than one occasion.

But I think we are in agreement over the two players. Merriman is good, no doubt, but to suggest that two sacks more makes him a better player is ridiculous. Especially when everything else as far as stats goes Ware's way. Then comparing the two situations they went into, it was much easier for Merriman to put up his numbers than it was for Ware.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I know better than to question you on stats Adam, but I SWEAR my eyes saw him get them unblocked on more than one occasion.

But I think we are in agreement over the two players. Merriman is good, no doubt, but to suggest that two sacks more makes him a better player is ridiculous. Especially when everything else as far as stats goes Ware's way. Then comparing the two situations they went into, it was much easier for Merriman to put up his numbers than it was for Ware.

You also have to credit San Diego's DC for designing a scheme for which Merriman can generate those sacks. I think that those plays were designed mainly to free up Merriman which allowed him a clear path to the QB. Merriman, as what most say here, was used correctly in San Diego.

I just wished that we could have used Ware in the same fashion. We made Ware watch some of the TE and back on coverage during passing downs, while we blitz Shanle up the middle. We also made Ware responsible for chipblocking some of the other teams best wide recievers. Hence, that long pass to Randy Moss against the Raiders. Later after the game, Ware said that his responsibility was to chip block Moss during that play. Now why would we want to subject our most potent passrusher to such nonsense?

We could and should have moved Ware around on the LOS before the snap. This would have cause QBs to audible or confuse some of the blocking assignments. It would also make Off. Coordinators more apt to gameplanning on where is Ware. But we didn't do that and that is really too bad because Ware is a tremendous talent that should not fall into a certain scheme, but should be the focal point of the defense in which he can use his God-given talents to create havoc and meyhem.

 

[AdamJT13]

Adam, could you post the TFL and other stats (for Ware/Merriman) you posted the other day? I'd like to bookmark the post.

I'm not sure which post you want, but here are some of those stats --

-- Merriman had 10 sacks and five TFL (four solo, two assists), for a total of 15 stops behind the line of scrimmage.

-- Ware had eight sacks and 10 TFL (nine solo, two assists), for 18 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He led all outside linebackers in TFL. He led all linebackers in combined sacks and TFL. He had the most combined sacks and TFL of any linebacker since 2001. And he was the first linebacker since 2001 to have at least eight sacks and eight TFL in the same season.

 

[theogt]

I'm not sure which post you want, but here are some of those stats --

-- Merriman had 10 sacks and five TFL (four solo, two assists), for a total of 15 stops behind the line of scrimmage.

-- Ware had eight sacks and 10 TFL (nine solo, two assists), for 18 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He led all outside linebackers in TFL. He led all linebackers in combined sacks and TFL. He had the most combined sacks and TFL of any linebacker since 2001. And he was the first linebacker since 2001 to have at least eight sacks and eight TFL in the same season.

That'll do perfectly, thanks.

 

[Jarv]

I'm not sure which post you want, but here are some of those stats --

-- Merriman had 10 sacks and five TFL (four solo, two assists), for a total of 15 stops behind the line of scrimmage.

-- Ware had eight sacks and 10 TFL (nine solo, two assists), for 18 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He led all outside linebackers in TFL. He led all linebackers in combined sacks and TFL. He had the most combined sacks and TFL of any linebacker since 2001. And he was the first linebacker since 2001 to have at least eight sacks and eight TFL in the same season.

And who was the LB'er that had better stats in 2001 ?

 

[AdamJT13]

And who was the LB'er that had better stats in 2001 ?

Kendrell Bell and Jamir Miller both did in 2001. Bell was the DROY and Miller went to the Pro Bowl. (Miller tore his Achilles the next year and had to retire because it never healed properly.)


I need to amend my last post, though. Ware's combined total of sacks and TFL was the most for an OUTSIDE linebacker since 2001, but the most for ANY linebacker since only 2002, not 2001. (Brian Urlacher had 16.5 TFL and 4.5 sacks in 2002.)

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Once again, this thread has to be turned by some people into an anti-Zimmer rant.

Do I think Mike Zimmer is a great DC? No. But Parcells himself said several times that the defense was kept simple because Ware was a rookie who didn't really know what he was doing yet, and overloading him would be the worst thing the coaches could do to him. So why do people want to blame Zimmer for the simple schemes last year? Do you really think Parcells wanted to run a bunch of exotic schemes but Mike Zimmer overruled him?

And as for the two players in question... I don't really care what Merriman does, because I think Ware is going to be a special player very soon. But I do think plenty of people are sending Merriman to Canton way before he deserves it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is interesting to me how simular the pre draft talk was for Merriman and how it is now for Brooks.

As for the question at hand, I still like Ware of Merriman. We won't know about Merriman until 4 or 5 years down the line. His talent is unquestionable but it's never really been the question. It has always been his attitude. That will manifest itself a few years down the line IMO.

To me, Merriman = Willie McGinest and Ware = Charles Haley from a talent stand point.

 

[mmillman]

Don't forget that Ware is bigger, faster and is learning a new position. Merriman is a good player and I wish we had both, but Ware has more upside.

 

[thor_01]

I will say this, Merriman was the youngest player in the NFL last year, so I do not get where some people are saying that he cannot improve. Also, the neck injury that Priest Holmes sustained that might end his career was delivered by Merriman (I do not wish injuries on any player). On top of everything is he can change the game with his hits!

if i get flagged for this comment so be it, but to assert that the hit he put on holmes some how validates his abillities over Ware is moronic to say the least, and i personally find it offensive to bathe in the fact that that hit may have been so great it ended another football players career as if that is a good thing is almost hall of fame moronic.................

by the way Holmes injury to his neck is genetic just like Michaels was and in no way was caused by the hit, in fact it was only discovered because of the hit requiring further medical investigation, so u might say the hit saved his life or extended his career instead of ending it........

i had no idea the chuggers fans had so much in common with the iggles fans, until i read these comments reminds me very much of the bs the iggles fans spouted about the injury to Michael, which i guess will set me on fire till the end of time...........

ok mods in this case whatever u dish out, if deemed necessary, i understand, but if i live to be a hundred, i probably wont be able to keep my mouth shut on this subject.............

 

[bayarealightning]

One, I never said that Merriman is better than Ware. What I was pointing out is that Merriman delivers vicious hits (hits are a part of the game). I guess you didn't see the part where I said that I do not wish injury on any player. Big hitters are big hitters. You need them on your team to create turnovers or to have the offensive player become a timid player. This is a vicious game.