Twitter: Micah thinks Cooper Kupp is the MVP of the league

[DFWJC]

Excuse me? Guys like Irvin and Rice were still FAST.

Yeah, its all relative

Irvin and Rice slightly slower40 times times than Kupp
Seemed to work out fine for them!

fwiw though……

• Kupp’s yards/game totals went up 80% with Stafford vs his first 4 years.
• Notice the massive resurrection of OBJ with Stafford
• And the massive decline of Kenny Galladay without Stafford

 

[shabazz]

Joe Burrow for MVP...why not?

…..good chance he might get one in the Super Bowl….that’s the most important one anyway

 

[McKDaddy]

Micah just keeps saying intelligent things. He's not gonna fit in around here.

 

[McKDaddy]

He broke the all-time record for yards from scrimmage by a WR. So, that is on par with Calvins big 2012 year when he 1964 yards receiving and 5 TDs. Cooper had 1947 yards receiving alone and 16 TDs.........so who had the better year? uh, Kupp.

both had Stafford throwing to them.

 

[tyke1doe]

The notion that “slow is better” is ridiculous, though. A fast guy can still choose to reduce his speed in order to make breaks in his route.

First, who said "slow is better"?
Second, I said "rare," meaning not as common.
Third, these are the paraphrased words of Michael Irvin, one of the greatest receivers in the game who acknowledged he wasn't the fastest receiver but was able to excel at a high level.
May I ask what credentials you bring to the table if you're going to contradict a Hall of Fame receiver?

 

[MajesticRey]

First, who said "slow is better"?
Second, I said "rare," meaning not as common.
Third, these are the paraphrased words of Michael Irvin, one of the greatest receivers in the game who acknowledged he wasn't the fastest receiver but was able to excel at a high level.
May I ask what credentials you bring to the table if you're going to contradict a Hall of Fame receiver?

I don’t have to be a Michelin star chef to know when food is good or bad. I also don’t need to be a HOF football player to formulate my own opinion on football topics.

This is a quote from your post: “the faster a guy can run, the longer it takes him to stop his speed.”

You know a player can choose to slow down, right? It’s not like a fast player will be running blazing fast the whole route unless the route is simply “go deep”. You’re right about it taking longer to slow down if you’re running fast, but you’re completely ignoring the fact that a player chooses their pace. Yeah, all-time greats like Rice and Irvin weren’t going to win Olympic sprints, but you honestly think that if their top speed was higher then they’d be worse? I don’t agree with that logic.

Example: Tyreek Hill. Dude is lightning quick, has no problem making cuts while moving fast. Consider the theory debunked.

I will agree that blazing speed doesn’t automatically make a WR good.

 

[glimmerman]

I wonder what his numbers would be if he played only DE. We would have suffered at LB I guess. Cox getting hurt was bad. He looked pretty good.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don’t have to be a Michelin star chef to know when food is good or bad. I also don’t need to be a HOF football player to formulate my own opinion on football topics.

Anyone can offer an opinion. But an INFORMED opinion is another matter.
I would think a Hall of Fame receiver has a more INFORMED opinion about the relationship of speed to route-running than a person who isn't.

This is a quote from your post: “the faster a guy can run, the longer it takes him to stop his speed.”

So, again, show me where I said "Slow is better"?
Second, my quote is simple physics. It takes a faster object longer to stop than a slower object. You know, the whole Newton thang. Tell me you're not questioning this fundamental principle?

You know a player can choose to slow down, right? It’s not like a fast player will be running blazing fast the whole route unless the route is simply “go deep”. You’re right about it taking longer to slow down if you’re running fast, but you’re completely ignoring the fact that a player chooses their pace. Yeah, all-time greats like Rice and Irvin weren’t going to win Olympic sprints, but you honestly think that if their top speed was higher then they’d be worse? I don’t agree with that logic.

First, I'm not ignoring anything. The comment comes from Michael Irvin.
Second, do we need to discuss the definition of "rare"?

Example: Tyreek Hill. Dude is lightning quick, has no problem making cuts while moving fast. Consider the theory debunked.

A theory isn't debunked because you find one example to counter it.
Second, you seem to be missing key words to support your argument. I nor Irvin said it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a blazing receiver and run precise routes. But the TENDENCY is for a speed guy to rely on his speed. You came to this discussion with an either-or absolutist perspective. I and Irvin approached this discussion postulating "tendencies."

I will agree that blazing speed doesn’t automatically make a WR good.

Maybe on this point we should end this conversation.

 

[MajesticRey]

@tyke1doe

“Anyone can offer an opinion. But an INFORMED opinion is another matter.
I would think a Hall of Fame receiver has a more INFORMED opinion about the relationship of speed to route-running than a person who isn't.”

I did offer an informed opinion. And if we’re going to depend on current/former players, coaches, etc. to do the talking for us, we may as well not have a forum. We can simply spend our days watching ESPN or reading Twitter rather than interacting with fellow Cowboys fans.

“So, again, show me where I said "Slow is better"?
Second, my quote is simple physics. It takes a faster object longer to stop than a slower object. You know, the whole Newton thang. Tell me you're not questioning this fundamental principle?”

I already acknowledged this at the end of my response.

Let me re-quote you again “Speed receivers rarely turn out to be great receivers because the faster a guy can run, the longer it takes him to stop his speed… So the routes you can run will be limited or harder for the speedreceiver because he has to slow his speed down before he makes precise cuts.” I am saying I completely disagree with this statement because speed is NOT a negative like you’re portraying it here.

You are saying the reason a fast receiver usually doesn’t have success is because he’s “too fast” to run good routes… because he “can’t slow down fast enough”. Uhh, no. The reason a standard fast guy can’t make it is usually because his lateral agility, strength, knowledge of how to create separation, or other variables not related to top speed are lacking. It has nothing to do with not being able to “slow down”.

 

[tyke1doe]

@tyke1doe

“Anyone can offer an opinion. But an INFORMED opinion is another matter.
I would think a Hall of Fame receiver has a more INFORMED opinion about the relationship of speed to route-running than a person who isn't.”[
I did offer an informed opinion. And if we’re going to depend on current/former players, coaches, etc. to do the talking for us, we may as well not have a forum. We can simply spend our days watching ESPN or reading Twitter rather than interacting with fellow Cowboys fans.

No, you offered me YOUR opinion. An INFORMED opinion is one with a knowledge of said topic. Michael Irvin ran routes on a professional level. He observed up close and personal receivers who ran routes.
If you have done neither, YOUR opinion is not as INFORMED as his.

“So, again, show me where I said "Slow is better"?
Second, my quote is simple physics. It takes a faster object longer to stop than a slower object. You know, the whole Newton thang. Tell me you're not questioning this fundamental principle?”

I already acknowledged this at the end of my response.

Then why are we having this discussion?

Let me re-quote you again “Speed receivers rarely turn out to be great receivers because the faster a guy can run, the longer it takes him to stop his speed… So the routes you can run will be limited or harder for the speedreceiver because he has to slow his speed down before he makes precise cuts.” I am saying I completely disagree with this statement because speed is NOT a negative like you’re portraying it here.

You want to make a list of the top Hall of Fame receivers who ran under 4.3 vs. those who ran 4.4 and above and see which list is longer? If the 4.4 and above list is significantly higher, would not that indicate its rarity?
Second, Michael Irvin's claim not mine. It just makes sense to me.

You are saying the reason a fast receiver usually doesn’t have success is because he’s “too fast” to run good routes… because he “can’t slow down fast enough”. Uhh, no. The reason a standard fast guy can’t make it is usually because his lateral agility, strength, knowledge of how to create separation, or other variables not related to top speed are lacking. It has nothing to do with not being able to “slow down”.

Take this argument up with Michael Irvin. He said it, not I. And he's a Hall of Fame receiver. And what he says makes sense to me.

 

[RaZon]

Don Hutson ran track at Alabama, he was a 9.8 man back when the world record was a 9.4. His greatness was because of his superior speed, keep in mind he wasn't facing 4.4 cornerbacks back then,

Bullet Bob Hayes changed the way the game is played, obviously his Olympic gold medal speed the difference. But before Bullet Bob there was Bob Boyd a 1950 NCAA 100 yard Champion, he blew by defenders on his way to a 1000 yard season way back then. He was a Ram, speaking of which the Rams Crazy Legs Hirsch was a great Hall of Fame receiver with great speed. And ....Homer Jones beat Hayes in a 200m he was a great speed receiver for the Giants.

When the AFL came into existence one of their first stars was a former 9.6 sprinter, 24 foot long jumping running back Lance Alworth out of Arkansas, The Chargers making a WR out of him. He was incredible, amazing.

The Browns drafted a 26 foot long jumping running back out of Ohio State named Paul Warfield, he'd be switched to WR, Hayes, Alworth, Warfield all Hall of Famers as was...

Bobby Mitchell was a Big10 100/hurdlers champion and the RB to Jim Browns FB with the Browns for five seasons, the classic Thunder & Lighting, well the Browns got stupid and let Mitchell go to the Commanders so they could get Ernie Davis the Heisman winning RB. As a Commander Mitchell became a WR, he had a great career, a Hall of Fame one.

Why was Darly Lamonica called The Mad Bomber, it was because of former Texas Southern 9,4 sprinter Warren Wells (got in trouble with drugs...poof) Then here came 9.2 man Cliff Branch.

Randy Moss, Don Maynard, Terrell Owens, Antonio Brown, James Lofton, Andre Johnson, Henry Ellard, Tim Brown, all speed guys most in the Hall of Fame, Hell, Mark Duper 9.4, Bengals Isacc Curtis 9.3

Today who is anymore dynamic than Tyreek Hill? You got to have a guy who backs safties up, yes the old,,,,,,when he beats me you got him.

Michael Irvin is wrong if he thinks speed isn't a big deal.

Obviously Jerry Rice was faster than his 40 time as is Kupp, maybe nerves, sick....ha!