Michael Irvin's team message on video board

[DallasEast]

Honestly, I think it is less the fault of season ticket holders selling tickets as much as it is the demand from opposing teams fans. You look on ticket exchange and every team has a ton of tickets for sale. ..not just the Cowboys. The only difference is the other teams' tickets are being bought by their own fans because their opponents aren't clamouring to see them.

I partially agree since I did not bring up season ticket holders into the discussion. That was TheKey. I fully agree on your identification of demand. An examination of re-sale ticket prices in relation to each individual team and the market for those tickets can determine relative supply and demand. I'm no expert but have scanned the ticket exchanges quite a bit. Re-sale prices for Cowboys games, especially marquee (sp?) games like New England and Seattle, are outrageous compared to games and re-sale tickets at other venues. That's my opinion though and totally unsubstantiated.

 

[Aven8]

Saw it at the preseaon game against Minny and my wife and I were ready to run through a brickwall!! That dude has still got it!

 

[dargonking999]

Which game was it?

The saints game

 

[Junglist]

The saints game

That's the only one I missed last season.

 

[TheKey]

True. The financial demands of season ticket policies aren't fan-friendly but that's not the point. It's economics and supply & demand. Initial ticket supply consists of first-time sale tickets and unsold season ticket packages. First-time sales ticket supply may be relatively substantial but unsold season ticket packages may not be. Hypothetically, overall available ticket supply reflecting face value initially will be small compared to initial demand (namely potential buyers wanting to buy at face value). It may be large. It may be average. All degrees are relative.

This initial supply is consumed quickly due to high demand though. Supply is then converted to re-sale tickets. It should be noted that re-sale vendors (individuals or companies) carve out a large niche of the initial first-sale supply. Re-sale tickets are priced HIGHER than face value tickets. Price influences demand. Cowboy fans, who would have purchased tickets at face value refuse to pay the higher prices. Demand shifts to consumers (fans) who will pay the elevated price. And presto! 49er fans bought re-sold tickets for one time opportunity to see their favorite team playing locally.

You are right though. At some point there is an excess supply. It's after tickets are re-sold. Who will pay for tickets at re-sale prices? I would and I have done so. I have tickets for both the Seahawks game in Arlington and the Saints game in New Orleans. I tried to buy first-sale tickets before they were goggled up. I was too late. I'm sure lots of other Cowboys fans were too late as well. However, unlike they and some people, the higher priced re-sale tickets was greater than their personal demand. Budgets have restrictions. IF such fans had the opportunity to buy at face value, perhaps there would not have been a Red Sea flood of 49er fans last year.

Now, if you are a season ticket holder, that's great. Every Cowboys fan will not able to purchase season ticket packages. Certainly, fans of other teams aren't generally going to purchase season ticket packages benefitting teams not their own. I'm not going to tell any season ticket holders that they are permanently stuck with their tickets. That's foolish. It's your money. But there are consequences to re-selling tickets at prices that do not meet demand.

Economics.

Good synopsis. For those who are not aware, season ticket holders normally have somewhere between $2,000-$10,000 in seat licenses to pay just for the right to own their seat. On top of that, the NFL charges full price for preseason games. So if a season ticket holder has a game that they cannot attend, what would you suggest they do? Sell the ticket for 2x face value and help to cover some of those costs, or eat the ticket for less than market value out of the goodness of their hearts?

The point that no one talks about is the excess capacity in our stadium. Jerruh is making a ton of money by cramming people into standing room spots for $20, thus leaving a ton of unsold tickets for visitors. Add to that the allure of the stadium itself and Dallas being a relatively easy place to travel to and you have a perfect storm.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Hmmm....after reading the discussion in this thread, as (bad) luck would have it, I came across this article that ranked the most loyal fan bases in the NFL. It was dated yesterday:

32. DALLAS COWBOYS

(USA TODAY Sports Images)

I’m not talking about you, most fans from the Dallas area, who generally (along with Bears and Packers fans) seem to be the nicest I’ve ever encountered. No, this is pointed to Cowboy Nation, the widely dispersed cross-section of fan who like the Cowboys beacause they happened to grow up when Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Jimmy Johnson were doing their thing and adopted the Cowboys despite any affiliation with them whatsoever. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as you stay resolute through the Wade Phillips years. But if you disown the Cowboys when they struggle, then try to get on the bandwagon when Tony Romo happens to go 12-4, then that’s just sad. It’s a cliche, but did you know that in the dictionary, there’s a picture of Cowboys fans next to the word “fair-weather?” No, seriously.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/the-most-loyal-fans-in-the-nfl-ranked


Ouch.

 

[jazzcat22]

Hmmm....after reading the discussion in this thread, as (bad) luck would have it, I came across this article that ranked the most loyal fan bases in the NFL. It was dated yesterday:

32. DALLAS COWBOYS

(USA TODAY Sports Images)

I’m not talking about you, most fans from the Dallas area, who generally (along with Bears and Packers fans) seem to be the nicest I’ve ever encountered. No, this is pointed to Cowboy Nation, the widely dispersed cross-section of fan who like the Cowboys beacause they happened to grow up when Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Jimmy Johnson were doing their thing and adopted the Cowboys despite any affiliation with them whatsoever. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as you stay resolute through the Wade Phillips years. But if you disown the Cowboys when they struggle, then try to get on the bandwagon when Tony Romo happens to go 12-4, then that’s just sad. It’s a cliche, but did you know that in the dictionary, there’s a picture of Cowboys fans next to the word “fair-weather?” No, seriously.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/the-most-loyal-fans-in-the-nfl-ranked


Ouch.

Who cares about a rag like USA Today, they hate everything Cowboys.
Wasn't there another article saying the Cowboys had the best fans out about a month ago.

When Dallas wins the SB, USA today probably will have printing issues the next day, just so not to report they won.

What this idiot described was actually Miami Dolphin fans. When I lived in South Florida, for 14 years. If the Dolphins were winning, there a Miami fan, if they were losing, they were a fan of the team from wherever they moved from. I met 2 true Miami fans while living there. And one of them was a Miami Hurricanes fan.
I knew the Dolphins starting line up as well as almost the entire roster, and I hated them at the time. But most so called fans could only name Marino and Shula. I bet to this day if you ask them who is on the team, a majority would say Marino and Shula, and some guy they just over paid for.

I went to a card show at Saw Grass Mills mall in Ft. Lauderdale in 1992, Aikman was there, and this was before the season, so no SB win yet. I was lucky and drew a number to get in the first wave of fans, at #40, as there eventually was well over 200 by the time I got through the line. and Troy Vincent and someone else was there from the Dolphins...they had maybe 25 people in line.

 

[AsthmaField]

That was the only time I've been embarrassed to be a Cowboys fan. There's absolutely no reason opposing fans can take over our stadium.

That was the first game of the year following an offseason where everyone and their brother thought the Cowboys weren't going to be very good. Half the fans in Dallas didn't even want to go to that game.

Once it became clear to all of the bandwagon fans that Dallas was actually pretty good... they do what they always do and scurry out wearing their throwback jerseys and waving their "we're No. 1" foam fingers as if they never even left.

I can't stand bandwagon fans...

 

[Junglist]

That was the first game of the year following an offseason where everyone and their brother thought the Cowboys weren't going to be very good. Half the fans in Dallas didn't even want to go to that game.

Once it became clear to all of the bandwagon fans that Dallas was actually pretty good... they do what they always do and scurry out wearing their throwback jerseys and waving their "we're No. 1" foam fingers as if they never even left.

I can't stand bandwagon fans...

Wouldn't that describe fairweather fans more accurately?

 

[AsthmaField]

Wouldn't that describe fairweather fans more accurately?

Either term would fit, IMO. They both adequately describe what I see as roughly the same phenomenon.

Call them bandwagon fans or fairweather fans... I think people here know what I'm talking about.

 

[Junglist]

Either term would fit, IMO. They both adequately describe what I see as roughly the same phenomenon.

Call them bandwagon fans or fairweather fans... I think people here know what I'm talking about.

You're right. Fortunately, for that same reason, no opposing fanbase will take over our stadium this year.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Who cares about a rag like USA Today, they hate everything Cowboys.
Wasn't there another article saying the Cowboys had the best fans out about a month ago.

When Dallas wins the SB, USA today probably will have printing issues the next day, just so not to report they won.

What this idiot described was actually Miami Dolphin fans. When I lived in South Florida, for 14 years. If the Dolphins were winning, there a Miami fan, if they were losing, they were a fan of the team from wherever they moved from. I met 2 true Miami fans while living there. And one of them was a Miami Hurricanes fan.
I knew the Dolphins starting line up as well as almost the entire roster, and I hated them at the time. But most so called fans could only name Marino and Shula. I bet to this day if you ask them who is on the team, a majority would say Marino and Shula, and some guy they just over paid for.

I went to a card show at Saw Grass Mills mall in Ft. Lauderdale in 1992, Aikman was there, and this was before the season, so no SB win yet. I was lucky and drew a number to get in the first wave of fans, at #40, as there eventually was well over 200 by the time I got through the line. and Troy Vincent and someone else was there from the Dolphins...they had maybe 25 people in line.

Same thing you describe in Miami happened here in New Orleans as well. The streets used to be crawling with people wearing #8 and #22 jerseys (and other Cowboy t-shirts and hats)....now, nothing but Saints gear. When the Saints start to decline again (and they will) and the Cowboys start to win again (and we will) the fair-weather fans will return....and that will happen when the Cowboys start winning in every city in this country. They didn't call us "America's Team" for no reason.

However, there's no denying that all of those fair-weather fans abandoned us when the wins dried up. They don't call them "fair-weather fans" for no reason either!

As for the media....there will be special issues, and everyone will be looking to slap a Dallas Cowboys champion logo on any object they can, because WE SELL. That's because the fair-weather fans will come back, and they'll buy all that stuff. And Jerry will be happy to take their money. It doesn't matter to me. I'm here win or lose, rain or shine.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You're right. Fortunately, for that same reason, no opposing fanbase will take over our stadium this year.

I hope that's true. I sure don't want to see another repeat of what I saw on opening day last year.

 

[Junglist]

I hope that's true. I sure don't want to see another repeat of what I saw on opening day last year.

The pats may have a lot of fans, but it won't even be close to them "taking over", neither will the seahags. (Imo)

 

[dfense]

Has anyone seen this yet.
Last year he did a video played at the stadium before the games.
He made another one for this year.
has anyone seen this or can post a copy of it if so.

What's really funny is, Irvin was so serious when he played. Always glaring at people. Now he's a comedian.

 

[DallasEast]

Good synopsis. For those who are not aware, season ticket holders normally have somewhere between $2,000-$10,000 in seat licenses to pay just for the right to own their seat. On top of that, the NFL charges full price for preseason games. So if a season ticket holder has a game that they cannot attend, what would you suggest they do? Sell the ticket for 2x face value and help to cover some of those costs, or eat the ticket for less than market value out of the goodness of their hearts?

I may not be communicating this correctly. I will try again. My suggestion would be for any and every season ticket holders to do what is best for him or her. If that means selling their ticket and recoup every single penny invested or more in that seat, do so. By all means. I do not blame season ticket holder for doing so.

However cause-and-effect remains. If a Cowboy fan becomes a season ticket holder, the seat belongs to the Cowboy fan. If a Cowboy season ticket holder sells their seat and another team's fan purchases the exact same seat, the seat transfers from the Cowboy fan to the other team's fan. The other team's fan did not purchase the seat from Jerry Jones.

So, when someone makes an observation that large numbers of opposing team's fans are sitting in the stadium, the automatic assumption should not be, "Jerry Jones allowed all these fans from the other team to take over the stadium." That is factually incorrect IF a significant portion of those seats originally belonged to Cowboy fans who bought first-run tickets or season tickets and subsequently put them up for re-sale. The motivation is irrelevant. The result is relevant.

The point that no one talks about is the excess capacity in our stadium. Jerruh is making a ton of money by cramming people into standing room spots for $20, thus leaving a ton of unsold tickets for visitors. Add to that the allure of the stadium itself and Dallas being a relatively easy place to travel to and you have a perfect storm.

Jerry Jones is a money-grubbing fiend. He's guilty as charged. He's packing in people like sardines into the standing room areas. That's still not the point. Take a look:

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/files/2014/09/fox-620x317.jpg
​

This is what people are talking about. Very few (if any) people were complaining about crowds of 49er fans congesting the party pass areas. Even the network cameras were not focusing and constantly scanning the party pass areas. The game commentators weren't gushing over how many 49er fans were seen outside the seats. Fans like myself who were at the game weren't in awe of party pass ticket buyers standing outside the seating sections. We were disgusted by the mass of humanity clothed in red all around us. The entire conversation was about the overwhelming numbers of 49er fans occupying seats. So, yes. Jerry Jones is making a killing (understatement) charging $20 a head to stand up all game. He's the personification of The Grinch. Scary. However, no one is talking about those non-Cowboy fans taking over the stadium outside the seating areas. The conversation does not question HOW large numbers of other teams' fans got tickets for the seats above in the first place. Instead, blame is lazily (and somewhat illogically) placed at Jerry Jones' feet. Again, blame Jones for being greedy. Blaming him for other teams' fans sitting in seats that first belonged to Cowboy fans doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[TheKey]

I may not be communicating this correctly. I will try again. My suggestion would be for any and every season ticket holders to do what is best for him or her. If that means selling their ticket and recoup every single penny invested or more in that seat, do so. By all means. I do not blame season ticket holder for doing so.

However cause-and-effect remains. If a Cowboy fan becomes a season ticket holder, the seat belongs to the Cowboy fan. If a Cowboy season ticket holder sells their seat and another team's fan purchases the exact same seat, the seat transfers from the Cowboy fan to the other team's fan. The other team's fan did not purchase the seat from Jerry Jones.

So, when someone makes an observation that large numbers of opposing team's fans are sitting in the stadium, the automatic assumption should not be, "Jerry Jones allowed all these fans from the other team to take over the stadium." That is factually incorrect IF a significant portion of those seats originally belonged to Cowboy fans who bought first-run tickets or season tickets and subsequently put them up for re-sale. The motivation is irrelevant. The result is relevant.
Jerry Jones is a money-grubbing fiend. He's guilty as charged. He's packing in people like sardines into the standing room areas. That's still not the point. Take a look:

http://cowboysblog.***BANNED-URL***/files/2014/09/fox-620x317.jpg
​

This is what people are talking about. Very few (if any) people were complaining about crowds of 49er fans congesting the party pass areas. Even the network cameras were not focusing and constantly scanning the party pass areas. The game commentators weren't gushing over how many 49er fans were seen outside the seats. Fans like myself who were at the game weren't in awe of party pass ticket buyers standing outside the seating sections. We were disgusted by the mass of humanity clothed in red all around us. The entire conversation was about the overwhelming numbers of 49er fans occupying seats. So, yes. Jerry Jones is making a killing (understatement) charging $20 a head to stand up all game. He's the personification of The Grinch. Scary. However, no one is talking about those non-Cowboy fans taking over the stadium outside the seating areas. The conversation does not question HOW large numbers of other teams' fans got tickets for the seats above in the first place. Instead, blame is lazily (and somewhat illogically) placed at Jerry Jones' feet. Again, blame Jones for being greedy. Blaming him for other teams' fans sitting in seats that first belonged to Cowboy fans doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

This is getting way off the rails of why this thread started, but since we are already down that road. I didn't mean to insinuate it was Jerry's fault that fans sell their tickets. Of course not. What I do say explicitly is that, by having a stadium with a de facto 100,000 capacity, you make it easier for opposing fans to join you. A lot of those party pass fans would have purchased a seat if the party pass did not exist. That's all I am saying. I understand the frustration, I was at that game. I just don't get the anger at the STH, the very people who put their money where there mouth is for this team, from the rest of the posters on this board. In fact, if they didn't purchase a ticket at all, they are more to blame than anyone.

 

[DallasEast]

This is getting way off the rails of why this thread started, but since we are already down that road. I didn't mean to insinuate it was Jerry's fault that fans sell their tickets. Of course not. What I do say explicitly is that, by having a stadium with a de facto 100,000 capacity, you make it easier for opposing fans to join you. A lot of those party pass fans would have purchased a seat if the party pass did not exist. That's all I am saying. I understand the frustration, I was at that game. I just don't get the anger at the STH, the very people who put their money where there mouth is for this team, from the rest of the posters on this board. In fact, if they didn't purchase a ticket at all, they are more to blame than anyone.

Bold is where we disagree I think. My opinion is this:

If every non-season ticket holder fan with zero intentions of selling their single game tickets could buy them for the price Jerry Jones slaps on them, you would never see opposing fans take over the stadium.

I'm not blaming fans who want to buy tickets but cannot afford them because someone other than Jerry Jones wants to scalp 'em.

 

[5Stars]

Bold is where we disagree I think. My opinion is this:

If every non-season ticket holder fan with zero intentions of selling their single game tickets could buy them for the price Jerry Jones slaps on them, you would never see opposing fans take over the stadium.

I'm not blaming fans who want to buy tickets but cannot afford them because someone other than Jerry Jones wants to scalp 'em.

That's the rich Dallas fan base in Texas. Cowboy fans out of town, or opposing fans out of town, can get their tickets from ticket holders and can come see the game and do not have to pay the for the seat license. (PSL...i think?)

So, it is the rich season ticket holders that allow the stadium to get over run by opposing team's fans.