Michael Vick thread | Post #161 | Police: Vick not involved in shooting (NFL.com)

[Stautner]

Thank you. If you liked that, you will love my new book, which will be available July 1, 2010 at bookstores all acroess the country.

 

[Stautner]

Believe me if you want to get condescending I am more than willing to reciprocate.

All the media outlets had him as this arbiter. Who gives a **** what his deceitful actual role is.

You talk of a interaction between the league and the fans. Well you have the image that he presented himself to the fans with two years ago and since then he has successfully dismantled that notion.

His suspensions are less and less looking like an attempt to clean up the league and more and more like a farce. You can lecture all day long about what you see his role to the ownership is. However its fan perception that is paramount because we are the ones that generate the revenue stream. His actions are not helping and as he continues this tact it gives the commisioners office and thus the ownership in general a bad image.

There are labor negotiations ongoing right now. Public perception will be hugely important in these proceedings. Did it occur to you that his unfair handling of pretty much everything thus far is not going to have an impact on how the public perceives the negotiations.

So congratulations you have pointed out that the NFL is out there to make money. Bravo. You still fail to look any deeper than that.

Let me put it this way. Let's say you own a chain of car dealerships, you advertise on TV, radio and print. You work hard to present an image - promoting yourself as the most honest and fair automobile dealerships around. Then a reporter finds that at one of your dealserships it is routine to talk customers into a bunch of accessories they don't need to increase the profits, and the story spreads around. You personally find that other of your dealerships do the same thing, but the media hasn't caught them.

Do you make a huge media issue out of it - make a public show of firing people who may know about the practices of the othe dealerships, run the risk of the whole thing blowing open that your entire organization spanning 14 dealerships is cheating, or do you tell the media you are handling it, let them know the appropriate people have been punished, then keep it low key so it will blow over and not have a lingering affect on your entire business and all the dealerships you own?

Are you being deceitful, or are you being a business owner trying to protect his organization and keep his customer base?

 

[tyke1doe]

Believe me if you want to get condescending I am more than willing to reciprocate.

All the media outlets had him as this arbiter. Who gives a **** what his deceitful actual role is.

You talk of a interaction between the league and the fans. Well you have the image that he presented himself to the fans with two years ago and since then he has successfully dismantled that notion.

His suspensions are less and less looking like an attempt to clean up the league and more and more like a farce. You can lecture all day long about what you see his role to the ownership is. However its fan perception that is paramount because we are the ones that generate the revenue stream. His actions are not helping and as he continues this tact it gives the commisioners office and thus the ownership in general a bad image.

There are labor negotiations ongoing right now. Public perception will be hugely important in these proceedings. Did it occur to you that his unfair handling of pretty much everything thus far is not going to have an impact on how the public perceives the negotiations.

So congratulations you have pointed out that the NFL is out there to make money. Bravo. You still fail to look any deeper than that.

So do you have tickets to the Dallas Cowboys games and if so, have you given them up?

Are you boycotting watching NFL games? Have you given up the NFL Sunday Ticket because you don't like what Goodell is doing?

The NFL, when last I checked, is still the highest grossing sports league in the nation. I suspect that the fans who are carping about Goodell represent a small majority. Maybe they talk loudly, but their jabbing about Goodell not being good for the league isn't translating into less revenue.

I think more people support Goodell than disagree with what he's doing. And the owners support him, which is really all that matters.

The fans aren't going to do anything but watch the games and complain because, well, they're fans.

When the fans boycott the NFL over the actions of Goodell, well, then I'll reconsider your point.

 

[Stautner]

So do you have tickets to the Dallas Cowboys games and if so, have you given them up?

Are you boycotting watching NFL games? Have you given up the NFL Sunday Ticket because you don't like what Goodell is doing?

The NFL, when last I checked, is still the highest grossing sports league in the nation. I suspect that the fans who are carping about Goodell represent a small majority. Maybe they talk loudly, but their jabbing about Goodell not being good for the league isn't translating into less revenue.

I think more people support Goodell than disagree with what he's doing. And the owners support him, which is really all that matters.

The fans aren't going to do anything but watch the games and complain because, well, they're fans.

When the fans boycott the NFL over the action's of Goodell, well, then I'll reconsider your point.

Good points.

Other points. Would fans would be more upset with a blind eye approach that eventually leads to a bunch of incidents blowing up around the league at all times, or a proactive approach like Goodell has taken?

Would fans be more supportive of Goodell if he made a standard, across the board penalty of a 5 game suspension for any infraction at all, whether its a felony dog fighting conviction or being present when there was a fight in the bar you happened to be at, or do they prefer him to look at each case individually?

Does anyone really think the NFL would be a more attractive product to the fans if Goodell led a sweeping investigation of every player, coach and team and exposed everything everyone has done so that the media storm will paint the league as an across the board corrupt orgainization, or do people understand that Goodell has a fine line to toe so that he can do the cleanup work that needs to be done in a carefully calculated way that will preserve the marketability of the product he is hired to promote?

 

[tyke1doe]

Good points.

Other points. Would fans would be more upset with a blind eye approach that eventually leads to a bunch of incidents blowing up around the league at all times, or a proactive approach like Goodell has taken?

I'm for the proactive approach. Many players already think they're entitled. We don't need more incidents like the Ray Lewis situation. We need athletes to think how their behavior impacts others. We need them thinking more cautiously than brazenly.

Would fans be more supportive of Goodell if he made a standard, across the board penalty of a 5 game suspension for any infraction at all, whether its a felony dog fighting conviction or being present when there was a fight in the bar you happened to be at, or do they prefer him to look at each case individually?

As you've said previously, all situations are different. You can't compare the Vick and Pacman Jones situation with the Vince Young situation. Why? Because the other two already had conversations with Goodell, and they had already been put on notice about their behavior. Moreover, in criminal matters, Goodell has always been a bit more cautious than if it involves a matter of a misdemeanor or simple misconduct.

The same people arguing for a uniform punishment would likely be complaining about an unfair standard if their favorite player received the same suspension for a less affront compared to an "enemy" player with a more serious criminal charge.

There's really no way to please everyone. But the fair way is to evaluate situations on a case-by-case basis.

Does anyone really think the NFL would be a more attractive product to the fans if Goodell led a sweeping investigation of every player, coach and team and exposed everything everyone has done so that the media storm will paint the league as an across the board corrupt orgainization, or do people understand that Goodell has a fine line to toe so that he can do the cleanup work that needs to be done in a carefully calculated way that will preserve the marketability of the product he is hired to promote?

Nobody really wants that. It would be a waste of time and resources anyway.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So do you have tickets to the Dallas Cowboys games and if so, have you given them up?

Are you boycotting watching NFL games? Have you given up the NFL Sunday Ticket because you don't like what Goodell is doing?

The NFL, when last I checked, is still the highest grossing sports league in the nation. I suspect that the fans who are carping about Goodell represent a small majority. Maybe they talk loudly, but their jabbing about Goodell not being good for the league isn't translating into less revenue.

I think more people support Goodell than disagree with what he's doing. And the owners support him, which is really all that matters.

The fans aren't going to do anything but watch the games and complain because, well, they're fans.

When the fans boycott the NFL over the actions of Goodell, well, then I'll reconsider your point.

I certainly have my complete support going to the players in the labor dispute. I certainly view every action that man takes as contemptible.

I am a very poor choice when it comes to gauge the efficacy of Goodell. I am a lifelong hardcore fan of a particular franchise.

Just as in political dealings it is the independents that you worry about so it is in this market. When dealing with potential or lackadaisical fans then I certainly some are going to be turned off by the actions of the league executives.

Then you have corporate sponsorships, the labor negotiations and the like.

Neither of us are in a position to actually quantify what the impact of Goodell being grossly and unfairly arbitrary and his public image going in the toilet but to say it does anything but harm is laughable. There entire crusade to portray him as some sort of tough love caretaker has been thrashed.

Look at this board and its obvious what his perception has turned into after an auspicious beginning. Even the two of you, are not denying this but instead try and brush it off as it being his job.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let me put it this way. Let's say you own a chain of car dealerships, you advertise on TV, radio and print. You work hard to present an image - promoting yourself as the most honest and fair automobile dealerships around. Then a reporter finds that at one of your dealserships it is routine to talk customers into a bunch of accessories they don't need to increase the profits, and the story spreads around. You personally find that other of your dealerships do the same thing, but the media hasn't caught them.

Do you make a huge media issue out of it - make a public show of firing people who may know about the practices of the othe dealerships, run the risk of the whole thing blowing open that your entire organization spanning 14 dealerships is cheating, or do you tell the media you are handling it, let them know the appropriate people have been punished, then keep it low key so it will blow over and not have a lingering affect on your entire business and all the dealerships you own?

Are you being deceitful, or are you being a business owner trying to protect his organization and keep his customer base?

This analogy makes absolutely no sense in any way shape or form. When car dealerships have entire channels devoted to them and every action they take pored over nationally then even then it makes no sense.

Its already being portrayed in the media. The cat is out of the bag.

 

[theebs]

so vick did have something to do with this?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

so vick did have something to do with this?

His bro, Marcus definitely did according to reports. There are still some questions about how much Mike knew about it.

 

[Hoofbite]

The Fan doesn't exist because of the NFL, the NFL exists because of the Fan.


If the NFL and Goodell want to sell their product it would be optimal to be consistant with the rules and punishment across the board.

Where has he been inconsistent?

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I'll spell it out. The point you miss is that the reason the league and Goodell do the things they do to protect and create an image for the league is to keep the fans, and hopefully attract new ones. The fans wont support a league that they see as corrupt across the board, so Goodell and the league are careful not to project that. It aint that hard. The dots are all numbered.

If this is all about percieved image because in theory a stricker image atracts more business then the playing field for the Owners, Coaches and Trainers should be held to ATLEAST the same standard as the Player.

Furthermore everything should be equal among all teams. Disclosing as much information as possible to the Fans only helps the cause.


For the Fan old and new, consistency is the key.

 

[Stautner]

This analogy makes absolutely no sense in any way shape or form. When car dealerships have entire channels devoted to them and every action they take pored over nationally then even then it makes no sense.

Its already being portrayed in the media. The cat is out of the bag.

It doesn't matter if it's a major corporation or a small chain of restaraunts. The principle is the same. Every business tries to present a certain image, and none of them will throw themselves on a sword in order to satisfy a handful of people who think they should be a shining beacon of virtue. They ALL do it to make money.

Why would you think that because major league baseball is big business and has a huge media element that they need to be LESS concerned about image and LESS concerend about protecting their consumer base and along with it their economic stability? Talk about not making sense!

Where has he been inconsistent?

There is the grand prize question. Evryone keeps talking about it, but no one is providing examples.

Was Ben supposed to get the same punishment as Vick even though Vick was a convicted felon and Ben never was brought to trial? Was Pacman and his 10-12 run ins with the law supposed to be treated exactly the same as Ben or Vick? Was Tank and his DWI arrest exactly the same situation as the others? Matt Jones? Brandon Marshall?

I don't see the cookie cutter offenses out there that demand identical punishments.

The other point I have made before is that if anyone really thinks the tabloid sports media is always giving an unbaised, complete and accurate account of everything that happened and all the circumstances and what is or is not disclosed or discussed behind closed doors in the commissioners office, then I have some ocean front property to sell you.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

There is the grand prize question. Evryone keeps talking about it, but no one is providing examples.

Jerry is attending AA across from the bar near the Airport in Addison.



:laugh2:

 

[Stautner]

Jerry is attending AA near the Airport in Addison.



:laugh2:

Okay .................................?


Probably should have happened a long time ago.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Okay .................................?


Probably should have happened a long time ago.

Next up for Owners regular Unrinalysis and off limits to Gentlemans' clubs!!

 

[Stautner]

Next up for Owners regular Unrinalysis and off limits to Gentlemans' clubs!!

I thinhk Jerry's been prettygood about staying out of the titty bars, but I believe he has quite a fondness for booze.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It doesn't matter if it's a major corporation or a small chain of restaraunts. The principle is the same. Every business tries to present a certain image, and none of them will throw themselves on a sword in order to satisfy a handful of people who think they should be a shining beacon of virtue. They ALL do it to make money.

Why would you think that because major league baseball is big business and has a huge media element that they need to be LESS concerned about image and LESS concerend about protecting their consumer base and along with it their economic stability? Talk about not making sense!



There is the grand prize question. Evryone keeps talking about it, but no one is providing examples.

Was Ben supposed to get the same punishment as Vick even though Vick was a convicted felon and Ben never was brought to trial? Was Pacman and his 10-12 run ins with the law supposed to be treated exactly the same as Ben or Vick? Was Tank and his DWI arrest exactly the same situation as the others? Matt Jones? Brandon Marshall?

I don't see the cookie cutter offenses out there that demand identical punishments.

The other point I have made before is that if anyone really thinks the tabloid sports media is always giving an unbaised, complete and accurate account of everything that happened and all the circumstances and what is or is not disclosed or discussed behind closed doors in the commissioners office, then I have some ocean front property to sell you.

What the hell are you talking about?

What part of 'they are destroying the image that they tried to portray' do you not get?

If the image that they are trying to portray is as paragons of virtue and they are blatantly doing just the opposite then thats a problem. Its not just a handful of people. With the exception of just a few people the overwhelming majority of people on this board were for the commissioners new stance when he came in.

Even you do not support his actions in and of themselves based on actual merit you just spout this bull**** about how it relates to public image. No one supports this crap that he is doing now.

Everytime he hands out a 3 game suspension for something for one player then hands out a different one for the same thing he alienates both teams fans. He does this type of thing over and over again.

You bring up baseball and then neglect that the perception that the front office were unable to ineffective in the steroid problem because major issues for them.

 

[casmith07]

I think ultimately the thing to remember is that the NFL is a private organization and can levy punishment or accolades however they see fit, as long as they are not in violation of any state or federal laws.

Regardless of what the fans or the players think is fair, as an employee they are subject to the whims of their employer, no matter how whimsical they might be.

 

[Anjinsan]

Vick's a gangsta. And a very stupid one at that. He's gone and good riddance.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Vick's a gangsta. And a very stupid one at that. He's gone and good riddance.

Naw, you is too hard on Mikey.

If he is a gangsta, then he is only a gansta o' love. Not violence (except for dogs)
Some people call him Mikey, cause he speaks of the pompetous of love, however.