Mike Mayock's eval

[odog422]

I dunno about that. This is my first year with NFLN, so I don't know about how he was before, but in the Senior Bowl he seemed to have a pretty high opinion of himself and his evaluations. JMO.



Not sure what your point is... Of course any NFL team is much better than any college team. No question about that. But level of competiton means something. I think most would agree that it means more to produce against top competition than against, say, Fresno State.

I think Burmafrd summed up my point pretty much:

Maybe McFadden just has a style and a body type that Mayock does not think will last well in the NFL. Perfectly valid point. And watching 3 games of a player will give you a pretty decent line on him= especially a back that probably carried the ball 25-30 times in each game.

And Mayock compared to Kiper for example, are like night and day to me, in terms of their arrogance about evaluating prospects.

 

[InmanRoshi]

The trouble draftniks have with RB is they try to formulate some body prototype or skillset and apply it like they would an offensive tackle or defensive end. I think you can throw "prototype" out the window when it comes to running backs. Go up and down the Top 20 NFL rushers of all time and they all had unique and distinct bodies and running styles. No two are like the other. Barry Sanders was nothing like Emmitt and Emmitt was nothing like Eric Dickerson and Eric Dickerson was nothing like Jerome Bettis and Jerome Bettis was nothing like Walter Payton and Walter Payton was nothing like Tony Dorsett.

It's an instinctual, God given position, where you're either blessed with "it" or you're not ... and usually the less you try to break it down and analyze it the better you are. It either jumps out at you or it doesn't. When you see safeties and linebackers just helplessly diving at air, like you do an all of McFadden and Peterson's videos ... they got "it". I remember how TJ Duckett flew up into the first round because he was "prototype". "Oh, he's he's 240 lbs. and runs like the wind. He has the perfect blend of power and speed !!!" Yeah, looks good on paper, not on the field. Brandon Jacobs is the same way.

 

[odog422]

The trouble draftniks have with RB is they try to formulate some body prototype body or skillset and apply it like they would an offensive tackle or defensive end. I think you can throw "prototype" out the window when it comes to running backs. Go up and down the Top 20 NFL rushers of all time and they all had unique and distinct bodies and running styles. No two are like the other. Barry Sanders was nothing like Emmitt and Emmitt was nothing like Eric Dickerson and Eric Dickerson was nothing like Jerome Bettis and Jerome Bettis was nothing like Walter Payton and Walter Payton was nothing like Tony Dorsett.

It's an instinctual, God given position, where you're either blessed with "it" or you're not ... and usually the less you try to break it down and analyze it the better you are. It either jumps out at you or it doesn't. I remember how TJ Duckett flew up into the first round because he was "prototype". "Oh, he's he's 240 lbs. and runs a 4.3+. He has the perfect blend of power and speed !!!" Yeah, looks good on paper, not on the field.

I disagree with regard to body prototype. Look at the top of the list of Top 20 rushers (top 5 or so) and their body types are similar. I think the entire list and it's variety is more a reflection of the times. Average ht prob around 5'10-5'11, somewhere around 200 pounds for the guys at the top. Very solid in the lower body region.

I agree that running is instinctual, and the ones who are great instead of good tend to be blessed in this area, along with very good vision and balance.

I think if you look there, as well as the body types of RB typically successful you can make some generalizations. Obviously no absolutes, but I think you can typically identify general body types that have been successful in this league.

 

[tomson75]

Care to share what those issues are?

Well, only to reiterate what many others have noted in the umpteen thousand threads on the subject, he's got some issues holding on to the ball. Nothing too bad, mind you, but it is an issue nonetheless. People have noted his body type. His legs are fairly thin. That typically doesn't translate into broken tackles in the NFL. He also runs high for most analyst's liking. If he runs to vertical in the NFL, he's going to get crushed, a lot.

I'm not saying I don't like the guy. I'd love to have him. I think he's an incredible talent, and I curse the Browns every time I see his name mentioned. However, he's far from perfect.

 

[JerryFan]

The guy seems to really know how to evaluate talent......we should listen to what he says.

I'm pretty sure he has my boy Rashard Mendenhall as his #1 RB. I'm telling you guys this guy is the total package. Some of you know I've been pimpin him for awhile now, but he is a FREAK!!!!!

 

[btcutter]

Ray Rice has "it". Very similar to Emmitt. I like his production and how he "just" glides to the open hole. Even when you think you have him for a loss...he gains a few yds. This is the guy I want.

The whole thread was started because of the outrage this board expressed when Mayock "knocked" McFadden. I don't know how accurate he is or any other pub maybe. But I enjoy listening to him with him showing films to back up his claim. I think most of us don't have the time or the films to break down a player. He's a far cry from Kiper who basically just "gathers" opinions instead of forming one of his own by reveiwing films.

I give Mayock credit for backing AP without any reservation of his ability. This shows me that he's not afraid to say what he thinks or "hedge" his opinions to please the public.

We all can decide what or who we want to believe. But this sure is fun.

 

[baj1dallas]

Funny, he watched only three games of his career, though. And I guess one of them was Auburn, a bad game for McFadden, because that's one of the plays he showed on NFLN. I know for a fact that one could find three bad games Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, and Eric Dickerson had in college, too.

The whole thing is strange. He pumped up Mendenhall when he made a couple of good cuts "Here he sticks his foot in the ground and goes downhill!", but totally brushes off a 70-yard TD run Mcfadden had against LSU -- who only produces tons of NFL talent every year and went on to win the national championship -- and goes right to a play in a different game when he got tackled easily.

it all comes down to how hard DMac is willing to work. I watched quite a bit of Arkansas and I love DMac for all he did for the Hogs but there's no doubt he's going to have to develop more lower body strength and reduce his fumbles. Those are both things you can overcome tho. All this stuff about having no field vision is ridiculous though, you don't consistently rip off 60+ yard TD runs without being able to see the field...I don't care how fast you are.

 

[lkelly]

My guess is that the pro scouts will have some reservations on DM because of the gimmick nature of many of his runs. When he's lining up at QB, and running sweeps or read option plays, that doesn't translate to the NFL. Reggie Bush looked awesome in space, but the Saints are finding that they can't run him on a lead draw 10 plays a game and expect production. Peterson showed that productivity in a more conventional offense and certainly appeared to be a safer bet to scouts. Mendenhall has some concerns as they ran a lot of option plays to him in college. Getting out in space on the edge rarely happens against pro defenses.

Mayock came out and said that McFadden would be drafted high because teams are infatuated with him. He's probably right on that. Maybe he'll turn out to be the next Marcus Allen. If he plays like Bush, teams might regret spending top 5 money on him.

For all the Peterson mania, don't forget that playoff teams like Dallas had a 4th round pick doing most of the damage, Green Bay had a castoff in Ryan Grant, Tampa had Earnest Graham for much of the year, Pittsburgh rode Willie Parker for the season, the Giants mixed Jacobs and a handful of nobodies, New England played massive stretches of games without a running back, and the Titans had a collection of guys that few people would be excited about. Even a team like Seattle pretty much gave up on their franchise back down the stretch.

When I see all that productivity from teams without high draft picks at running back, it makes me cringe at the thought of giving a rookie a $15+ million signing bonus

 

[Bizwah]

No top RB in this draft really played in a conventional offense.

McFadden? No..all sorts of sets and formations...he even lined up at QB
Stewart? No...spread offense...lots of misdirection
Mendenhall No....lots of option plays
Jones? No...same offense as McFadden

The thing is, it's going to be difficult to really evaluate the RBs. I have no idea how well McFadden and Jones will block....neither of them did a whole lot of it.

I heard Mayock go on about how McFadden broke too many runs outside...but almost all of the highlights he showed of the other backs had them going outside.

This is why RBs are a crapshoot. They're usually the most athletic players on the field, so it's hard to see how their skills will translate to the NFL where everyone's a great athlete.

 

[noletime95]

For the record, Mayock was basically in love with the D. Ware pick by Dallas.....but sort of hedged his bet w/ Spears.......

 

[Oh_Canada]

Mayock is a million times better than Kiper....it's not even close.