Mo Claiborne

[boysfanindc]

I know exactly what the OP is saying, but this isn't semantics.

It's important to understand how these contracts work. The value of the draft pick is very specific to the rookie contract. While you prefer to sign players that you already know fit your system, and there is real value in that, once a player hits free agency, you can't recover the investment you made into the draft with them. We have that window, and we can't get that back. Whether you pay Norman or you pay Claiborne, it doesn't matter which one you drafted.

Except that we got him for less then if we would have picked up his 5th year option.

 

[Galian Beast]

Except that we got him for less then if we would have picked up his 5th year option.

Didn't say anything about picking up the 5th year option.

 

[boysfanindc]

Didn't say anything about picking up the 5th year option.

Didn't say you did but your point seemed to suggest, "The value of the draft pick is very specific to the rookie contract." We are paying him less then his 5th year option would have been, so for this year we are getting better value then his rookie contract would have provided.

This first 4 years not so much, but for this year yes.

 

[Galian Beast]

Didn't say you did but your point seemed to suggest, "The value of the draft pick is very specific to the rookie contract." We are paying him less then his 5th year option would have been, so for this year we are getting better value then his rookie contract would have provided.

This first 4 years not so much, but for this year yes.

I'm comparing him to a free agent not compared to what his 5th year option would have been. I don't think that extends itself to ROI. The investment we made in him didn't yield being able to sign him for cheaper in his 5th year, in fact, I would say it was the opposite.

 

[boysfanindc]

I'm comparing him to a free agent not compared to what his 5th year option would have been. I don't think that extends itself to ROI. The investment we made in him didn't yield being able to sign him for cheaper in his 5th year, in fact, I would say it was the opposite.

So if we picked up his 5th year option and paid him more and got the type of results we are getting this year it would have been a ROI situation, but sine we didn't and got him for cheaper it does not because he hit free agency?

 

[JD_KaPow]

Everyone knows his wonderlic score is a joke because he didn't take the test seriously. Comon' man.

Uh, no. We know that that's what he claimed after the fact.

I've had a sneaking suspicion ever since that that Mo can't read. His explanation sounds like exactly the excuse someone who struggles with reading and is used to bluffing his way through would give. I have no evidence to support this, of course.

 

[Galian Beast]

So if we picked up his 5th year option and paid him more and got the type of results we are getting this year it would have been a ROI situation, but sine we didn't and got him for cheaper it does not because he hit free agency?

If we picked up the 5th year option, it would still relate to his rookie contract. Since we're outside of his rookie contract, ROI no longer applies. You are now not getting a return on investment, you're simply signing him as a free agency that all teams could have done. The 5th year option being an extension of the initial investment, means ROI would apply.

If a different team signed him this year for the same money, what ROI would that be for them? None.

 

[boysfanindc]

If we picked up the 5th year option, it would still relate to his rookie contract. Since we're outside of his rookie contract, ROI no longer applies. You are now not getting a return on investment, you're simply signing him as a free agency that all teams could have done. The 5th year option being an extension of the initial investment, means ROI would apply.

If a different team signed him this year for the same money, what ROI would that be for them? None.

Oh you must be talking about DPROIFRC (Draft Position Return on Investment for Rookie Contract)

Because you are suggesting there is no ROI for a player besides what he offers you on his rookie contract.

Teams do not draft players based on the value they can only obtain during their rookie contracts, they draft players to provide ROI over a decade or more even when they are not on rookie contracts.

Is the value difference nice during their rookie contracts, sure but the are investing for the long term.

I would say most people would view a Tyrone Smith as a good ROI even thought he is not on his rookie contract. It would be the cost Vs value over time.

To say "If a different team signed him this year for the same money, what ROI would that be for them? None." The ROI would be what they paid him Vs what they got in return.

 

[Galian Beast]

Oh you must be talking about DPROIFRC (Draft Position Return on Investment for Rookie Contract)

Because you are suggesting there is no ROI for a player besides what he offers you on his rookie contract.

Teams do not draft players based on the value they can only obtain during their rookie contracts, they draft players to provide ROI over a decade or more even when they are not on rookie contracts.

Is the value difference nice during their rookie contracts, sure but the are investing for the long term.

I would say most people would view a Tyrone Smith as a good ROI even thought he is not on his rookie contract. It would be the cost Vs value over time.

To say "If a different team signed him this year for the same money, what ROI would that be for them? None." The ROI would be what they paid him Vs what they got in return.

Once a player hits free agency, you can not consider the investment made into their original draft position. It has no relation.

Drafting someone in the 1st round or top 10 picks or in the 3rd round has no bearing on the ability to re-sign them as a free agent. To suggest that their is a return on investment post rookie contract is to misunderstand what the initial investment was.

Put together an ROI formula and you'll see what I mean. Once you sign them to a new contract you are making an entirely new investment not based on the original.

 

[boysfanindc]

Once a player hits free agency, you can not consider the investment made into their original draft position. It has no relation.

Drafting someone in the 1st round or top 10 picks or in the 3rd round has no bearing on the ability to re-sign them as a free agent. To suggest that their is a return on investment post rookie contract is to misunderstand what the initial investment was.

Put together an ROI formula and you'll see what I mean. Once you sign them to a new contract you are making an entirely new investment not based on the original.

You are talking DPROIFRC (Draft Position Return on Investment for Rookie Contract), you know it does not work that way in the NFL and that is not how FO's view their ROI for drafting a particular player.

FO's draft a player high because they believe they will be a part of their organization for a decade or more even after the first contract. Because it allows them to negotiate in ways other teams can not (value), control a player in ways other teams can not (value), gives them leverage that other teams do not have (value) and have more information about a player in ways that a team who does not draft that player can (value).

The ROI includes more then the rookie contract, if a team that drafts a player can negotiate/ control a player in a way that gets that player for less money on their next contract because they made the investment to draft that player in the first place. That is return on investment for drafting them in the first place, even if they are making another investment.

By drafting a player it gives you certain controls that are of value that can only be measured by the full life cycle of that player when determining ROI for a player relative to drafting them.

 

[conner01]

contract year

Last year was a contract year too

 

[Texas_Pete]

Caption this:



"I believe I can fly! I believe I can touch the sky!"

Pay the man Jerry!!

 

[Doomsday101]

Mo is playing with confidence for a change. The kid has had the talent but now seems to be playing and not over thinking or playing scared of getting beat.