Mock with trade

[dbair1967]

again using PFT's trade-value chart, http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/15/new-draft-trade-chart/ we trade to Oakland, picks #51, #101, and #197, and move up to pick #40

wouldnt be shocked if we moved up

2nd round, #40(v/Oakland): Northern Illinois DE Larry English - 6'2, 255

Explosive edge-rusher (36" vertical) takes over Greg Ellis' role as 3rd down pass-rushing threat, Wade Phillips re-introduced the 46 last year, and this year he can introduce the 3-3-5 to the Pro game

would absolutely be shocked if we traded up for an OLB, including this guy...he may end up a major bust for a 3-4 team

3rd round (v/Cleveland), #69: Florida WR Louis Murphy - 6'3" 203

Terrell Owen's clone, minus the hyper-active attitude, one of the draft's best deep threats, running a 4.32 40, along with a 1.48 10-yard dash at the Combine, and a 6.96 3-cone at his Pro Day, excels turning up field after he secures the football, flashes good hands

I dont want any WR from a spread offense.

4th round, #117: Pittsburgh ILB Scott McKillop - 6'1" 244

Heady inside LB who moves through blocks well, very capable player in coverage who uses a mix of great instincts and athletic ability (4.39 short-shuttle, 7.00 3-cone), explosive athlete (1.59 10-yard, 35.5" vertical, 9'11" broad-jump) and a secure tackler, 2-time All-American, and Big-East player of the year in '08, eventual replacement for Keith Brooking and nickel LB as a rookie

I like McKillop and he'd be good value in the 4th I think

5th round, #156: Furman OT Joel Bell - 6'7" 315

Small-school prospect with excellent height, long arms, strength, athleticism (4.57 short-shuttle), and explosion (1.69 10-yard, 30" vertical, 9'01" broad-jump), swing-tackle that is more suited to play LT than Pat McQuistan, immediately begins grooming to take over for Flozell Adams

I have this guy on my list as well...he could be a real sleeper

5th round (v/Tennessee), #166: Cincinnati CB DeAngelo Smith - 5'11" 194

Versatile defender, has played CB, FS and returned kicks, shared the National lead in INTs in '07 (8), and followed it up with a solid Senior season, snaring 2 INTs and breaking up 10 passes, physical player who fits the mold of the "star" player

not exciting, but he could be a good role player

5th round (Compensatory), #172: Stillman DT Sammie Lee Hill - 6'4, 329

Naturally strong player with good explosion (1.72 10-yard, 28" vertical, 9'01" broad-jump) and 1st step quickness, athletic, started at DE as a Senior, can play all, 3 line positions in the 3-4

I dont want anything to do with this guy...almost everything I've read on his is bad

6th round (Compensatory), #208: Maryland C Edwin Williams - 6'2" 308

High-effort, highly intelligent C with good athleticism, leader on the field, possesses a strong-hand punch, comfortable snapping out of the shot-gun

ok...my preference is someone who could play C&G, but cant complain much

7th round (v/Detroit), #210: BYU OG Rey Feinga - 6'4" 329

Huge, nimble OG able to move well laterally, 4-year starter, plays with a nastiness, strong hand-punch

ok...

7th round, #227: Utah CB Brice McCain - 5'9" 185

Not invited to the Combine, Brice posted a 4.33 40, 1.47 10-yard, 10'03" broad-jump and most impressively of all, a 3.99 20-yard shuttle at his Pro Day, comfortable playing in a man-cover scheme, despite not being thrown at much, he managed to break up 21 passes, and only picking off 3 passes his career, still managed to be voted 1st-team, All-MWC as a Senior

ok...

My biggest complaints would be no real safety prospect (and its a hole) and trading up for a major project at 3-4 OLB...he's never played there and didnt seem to show much of the skill set to play anything other than a pass rush role. Also as noted above, my opinion is any skill player from a spread offense is a likely NFL bust

 

[Bob Sacamano]

wouldnt be shocked if we moved up



would absolutely be shocked if we traded up for an OLB, including this guy...he may end up a major bust for a 3-4 team



I dont want any WR from a spread offense.



I like McKillop and he'd be good value in the 4th I think



I have this guy on my list as well...he could be a real sleeper



not exciting, but he could be a good role player



I dont want anything to do with this guy...almost everything I've read on his is bad



ok...my preference is someone who could play C&G, but cant complain much



ok...



ok...

My biggest complaints would be no real safety prospect (and its a hole) and trading up for a major project at 3-4 OLB...he's never played there and didnt seem to show much of the skill set to play anything other than a pass rush role. Also as noted above, my opinion is any skill player from a spread offense is a likely NFL bust

my thinking with English is that the 2 OLB positions are already set with Ware and Spencer, so we would just be drafting English to rush the passer, which he's very good at, and then we could put all 3 of them on the field at the same time too

just because a guy comes from a spread offense doesn't mean he's going to bust, Donnie Avery did pretty well as a rookie coming from a spread offense, Eddie Royal too, you can't teach a player to have his size and speed, we do have Ray Sherman too you know

 

[SLATEmosphere]

my thinking with English is that the 2 OLB positions are already set with Ware and Spencer, so we would just be drafting English to rush the passer, which he's very good at, and then we could put all 3 of them on the field at the same time too

just because a guy comes from a spread offense doesn't mean he's going to bust, Donnie Avery did pretty well as a rookie coming from a spread offense, Eddie Royal too, you can't teach a player to have his size and speed, we do have Ray Sherman too you know

He's a Florida reciever..therefore he's automatic garbage. Name one Florida receiver in that Florida scheme in the last 6-7 years that has actually done somthing in the NFL.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

He's a Florida reciever..therefore he's automatic garbage. Name one Florida receiver in that Florida scheme in the last 6-7 years that has actually done somthing in the NFL.

name a Western Michigan player whose done something in the NFL

Utah player...

matter of fact, let's stay away from all small-school players

 

[SLATEmosphere]

name a Western Michigan player whose done something in the NFL

Utah player...

matter of fact, let's stay away from all small-school players

Steve Smith and Eric Weddle.

LOL look at all the stud recievers coming out of Florida..there's a reason they suck in the NFL..the system doesn't translate to the NFL!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Steve Smith and Eric Weddle.

LOL look at all the stud recievers coming out of Florida..there's a reason they suck in the NFL..the system doesn't translate to the NFL!

it's not the system, it's the players, again, you can't teach this type of size and speed

 

[SLATEmosphere]

I'm talking about a specific position at a specific school: WR at Florida..Jabar Gaffney,Andre Caldwell,Chad Jackson,Taylor Jacobs,Reche Caldwell,Travis Taylor were all harolded as much as Murphy is. All of them with the same talent,stats and measurable like Murphy..All of them busts and failed living up to expectations. It's because Florida's offense doesn't translate into the NFL and these kids are set back learning wise when they get into training camp.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'm talking about a specific position at a specific school: WR at Florida..Jabar Gaffney,Andre Caldwell,Chad Jackson,Taylor Jacobs,Reche Caldwell,Travis Taylor were all harolded as much as Murphy is. All of them with the same talent,stats and measurable like Murphy..All of them busts and failed living up to expectations. It's because Florida's offense doesn't translate into the NFL and these kids are set back learning wise when they get into training camp.

this isn't Steve Spurrier's fun-and-gun offense anymore, so going through the whole history of players who don't even play in the same offense is kind of dumb

 

[big dog cowboy]

We have done well with some picks in the 100's recently. Choice was 122, Scandrick 140 something just last year. Barber, Canty and Bradie were all also picks in the 100's for us the last few years.

Good think we pick six times in the 100's then.

 

[BAT]

I think many are underrating English. English was a productive double digit sack guy for consecutive seasons, unlike Spencer (who had ONE breakout year). English is also more explosive (and agile) than Spencer, watch the film (English is better than Spencer at rushing the passer AND in coverage, or compare the tests for explosiveness_English blew Spencer away on both the vertical (36" to 32") and the 20 yard shuttle, and they both posted the same numbers at 10 yards. The 40 times are overrated, especially if a player does not have long speed, but has great burst.


English is more comparable to Lamar Woodley (who also had slow 40's), but was more explosive and agile, not to mention consistently productive.


I do not mind the English pick, I just don't think I would trade all those picks to get him. At 51, he is better than Sintim IMO.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Safety isn't a position we draft this year?

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[dmoore]

name a Western Michigan player whose done something in the NFL

Utah player...

matter of fact, let's stay away from all small-school players

Greg Jennings, Tony Scheffler. Tim Hiller will be a top 5 QB next year. WMU has some legit players.

Anyways, I agree with you about Florida WRs. I don't really care what system there in, just if they pass the eye test. Murphy did that. He's a playmaker, and if he was on a team that wasn't full of insane talent he would have stood out.

 

[dbair1967]

I think many are underrating English. English was a productive double digit sack guy for consecutive seasons, unlike Spencer (who had ONE breakout year). English is also more explosive (and agile) than Spencer, watch the film (English is better than Spencer at rushing the passer AND in coverage, or compare the tests for explosiveness_English blew Spencer away on both the vertical (36" to 32") and the 20 yard shuttle, and they both posted the same numbers at 10 yards. The 40 times are overrated, especially if a player does not have long speed, but has great burst.


English is more comparable to Lamar Woodley (who also had slow 40's), but was more explosive and agile, not to mention consistently productive.


I do not mind the English pick, I just don't think I would trade all those picks to get him. At 51, he is better than Sintim IMO.

I think you are grossly shortchanging Spencer, and overrating English. I'm not a Big 10 fan, but the level of comp there is much higher than anyting English has seen consistently. Virtually every good Big 10 OT said Spencer was the toughest guy they had to block.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

I think you are grossly shortchanging Spencer, and overrating English. I'm not a Big 10 fan, but the level of comp there is much higher than anyting English has seen consistently. Virtually every good Big 10 OT said Spencer was the toughest guy they had to block.

That isn't very good logic. Ware and Osi played at Troy..not the best competition over there.

 

[BAT]

I think you are grossly shortchanging Spencer, and overrating English. I'm not a Big 10 fan, but the level of comp there is much higher than anyting English has seen consistently. Virtually every good Big 10 OT said Spencer was the toughest guy they had to block.

A one year wonder, regardless if it is Big 10 or USA, is still a ONE YEAR WONDER.


My comments on his explosiveness are real, look it up.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think you are grossly shortchanging Spencer, and overrating English. I'm not a Big 10 fan, but the level of comp there is much higher than anyting English has seen consistently. Virtually every good Big 10 OT said Spencer was the toughest guy they had to block.

the MAC is a pretty good conference, it's not the SEC, but neither is the Big10

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Well.....your the 1st guy not taking Johny Knox

I thought it was a rule.

 

[dbair1967]

That isn't very good logic. Ware and Osi played at Troy..not the best competition over there.

but Ware and Osi are eons better athletes too

 

[dbair1967]

A one year wonder, regardless if it is Big 10 or USA, is still a ONE YEAR WONDER.

Where'd you ever get the idea he was a 1yr wonder? He started every game he played the last 3yrs he was at Purdue, he had 9.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks, 6 batted balls his first yr as starter, 7.5 sacks the next yr and then had a huge SR yr. He got better eveyr yr, that doesnt make him a "1yr wonder"

My comments on his explosiveness are real, look it up.

I did...and it says "can be engulfed by big bodies, lacks core strength, struggles to convert quickness to power, does not play violently, does not show many counter moves, needs to improve lower body strength, has suffered a variety of injuries in his career"..."Scouts who do not like him point to his lack of size, explosiveness and pass rush variety and his inability to produce against better comp"

 

[BAT]

Where'd you ever get the idea he was a 1yr wonder? He started every game he played the last 3yrs he was at Purdue, he had 9.5 TFL and 7.5 sacks, 6 batted balls his first yr as starter, 7.5 (actually he had 7.5 TFL and only 3 sacks in 2005) sacks the next yr and then had a huge SR yr. He got better eveyr yr, that doesnt make him a "1yr wonder"

He was a one year wonder, b/c prior to 2006 his production was not noteworthy (single digit sacks, single digit TFL), and certainly not first round worthy. In 2006, Spencer broke out w/26 TFL and 10 sacks. 2006 was his year of wonder.

I did...and it says "can be engulfed by big bodies, lacks core strength, struggles to convert quickness to power, does not play violently, does not show many counter moves, needs to improve lower body strength, has suffered a variety of injuries in his career"..."Scouts who do not like him point to his lack of size, explosiveness and pass rush variety and his inability to produce against better comp"

Did not look up his prospect analysis, but that works too.