Mosley: For Boys' Roy, there's safety in number$ -- interesting Ogletree comments

[Cover 2]

He was never on the practice squad.

Maybe I was thinking it was back when he wasn't activated for game day. Either way I remember someone saying the Cowboys were disappointed with his effort.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So threaten the overachiever and comfort the underachiever?

Doesn't sound like a great plan to me...

Actually, by all accounts, Roy worked extremely hard last year, beginning with the early offseason. He may not have produced much, but he did put the work in.

It's Ogletree who now has had two call-outs for not working hard enough.

 

[Stash]

Actually, by all accounts, Roy worked extremely hard last year, beginning with the early offseason. He may not have produced much, but he did put the work in.

It's Ogletree who now has had two call-outs for not working hard enough.

So that's what the team is looking for?

Practice players?

"Roy stinks on game day but he works so hard in practice."

"Ogletree produces on game day but I don't like how he looks when the games don't count."

Great formula.

Sounds to me like the excuses for Roy Williams' starting spot being assured are starting before the first practice of 2010.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Nobody made any excuses for Roy.

But the truth is that all you can ask of a player is that he gives maximum effort to improve. If he does that and still can't play, it's not on him -- it's on you for your poor evaluation of his talent.

Surely as a coach or GM you wouldn't want to give the message that it's okay to half-*** the conditioning program and practices as long as you have talent.

 

[Stash]

Nobody made any excuses for Roy.

But the truth is that all you can ask of a player is that he gives maximum effort to improve. If he does that and still can't play, it's not on him -- it's on you for your poor evaluation of his talent.

Seems to me that that already happened last season.

Surely as a coach or GM you wouldn't want to give the message that it's okay to half-*** the conditioning program and practices as long as you have talent.

More importantly, I wouldn't want to give the impression that roles are given based on what the owner and GM paid for a guy rather than putting the most productive players on the field.

Ogletree has to "get with the program or else" while Roy Williams "will be a starting receiver next season".

Doesn't scream great message to me.

 

[WoodysGirl]

So that's what the team is looking for?

Practice players?

"Roy stinks on game day but he works so hard in practice."

"Ogletree produces on game day but I don't like how he looks when the games don't count."

Great formula.

Sounds to me like the excuses for Roy Williams' starting spot being assured are starting before the first practice of 2010.

I don't think anyone is excusing Roy. Too many people tie RWs play here to Ogletrees. If Ogletree can play, he'll force his way on the field just like he did last year.

No, what I think they're saying is that you practice how you play. RW's practice habits have never been in question since he's been in Dallas. However, because Ogletree is a young player who doesn't have that much on field history with the team. All they have to go by is what he does in practice. If his practice habits are poor or he's taking it too easy, then does that really merit more time on game day?

 

[Stash]

I don't think anyone is excusing Roy. Too many people tie RWs play here to Ogletrees. If Ogletree can play, he'll force his way on the field just like he did last year.

No, what I think they're saying is that you practice how you play. RW's practice habits have never been in question since he's been in Dallas. However, because Ogletree is a young player who doesn't have that much on field history with the team. All they have to go by is what he does in practice. If his practice habits are poor or he's taking it too easy, then does that really merit more time on game day?

It seems to me that too many people are simply taking this as fact because Jerry Jones mentioned something about it.

If Ogletree's practice habits were in question, how did he get on the field in the first place?

He must have shown something in practices to not only stick with the team, but to get himself activated on gameday.

That doesn't say "slacker" to me.

 

[WoodysGirl]

It seems to me that too many people are simply taking this as fact because Jerry Jones mentioned something about it.

If Ogletree's practice habits were in question, how did he get on the field in the first place?

He must have shown something in practices to not only stick with the team, but to get himself activated on gameday.

That doesn't say "slacker" to me.

Actually my opinion stems not just from Jerry, but that Wade mentioned how they had to get on him after the season began about picking it up, which is how he did end up getting on the field.

It can only help if Ogletree can continue to improve, so in that respect what was wrong with Jerry said?

 

[Stash]

Actually my opinion stems not just from Jerry, but that Wade mentioned how they had to get on him after the season began about picking it up, which is how he did end up getting on the field.

I'd like to see this quote or article that some speak of because I never saw anything but good things mentioned about how Ogletree was doing, not a one.

It can only help if Ogletree can continue to improve, so in that respect what was wrong with Jerry said?

Because it's not in a vacuum. It's a team we're talking about, not simply one person.

Whay is Ogletree the guy who has to pick it up while Roy Williams is the overpaid flop thus far but Jerry can't envision the possbility of him not starting?

What kind of signal does it send to the other 51 players when quotes like this get made?

Why is Crayton pleading the 5th when asked about playing time?

It's not hard to connect-the-dots.

Jerry made the mistake and now everybody else pays for it.

 

[Seven]

Can writers not see that these two things are not necessarily incompatible?

Phillips said the best player is going to play (and later indicated that he considers Williams the best one).

Jones said he can't envision Williams not starting, because Jones also believes Williams is the best player.

Neither is guaranteeing Williams a starting spot, but saying they see Williams as the starter. It's up to Williams to prove worthy of that trust, which I think is the real gist of what Phillips was saying.

Both have acknowledged that Williams didn't have the type of season they envisioned, but that doesn't mean to don't still have faith in him.

:signmast:

 

[WoodysGirl]

I'd like to see this quote or article that some speak of because I never saw anything but good things mentioned about how Ogletree was doing, not a one.

I will do a search and find it. He wasn't dogging him out or anything. Typical low-key suggestion that they needed to see what made them keep him on the roster.

Because it's not in a vacuum. It's a team we're talking about, not simply one person.

Whay is Ogletree the guy who has to pick it up while Roy Williams is the overpaid flop thus far but Jerry can't envision the possbility of him not starting?

What kind of signal does it send to the other 51 players when quotes like this get made?

Why is Crayton pleading the 5th when asked about playing time?

It's not hard to connect-the-dots.

Jerry made the mistake and now everybody else pays for it.

The problem again is no one, NOT ONE person is saying that Roy doesn't need to pick it up. Having read all the various articles with the quotes from Wade and Jerry, what they are saying is that they don't envision him not starting because they do see him as one of the best on the team, but he does need to play better.

And yeah, why can't Ogletree be mentioned as a player who they want to see continue to improve. Maybe it's because they saw so much from him last year, they want him to continue to the next level. That's a sign of how much they like him that he's even mentioned. They're surely not pointing out Manuel Johnson or Jesse Holley from the practice squad as an up-and-comer.

Crayton pleading the 5th has all the makings of working the media and keeping things in-house. Total non-issue to me.

 

[Stash]

I will do a search and find it. He wasn't dogging him out or anything. Typical low-key suggestion that they needed to see what made them keep him on the roster.

Thanks. I would really like to see it.

The problem again is no one, NOT ONE person is saying that Roy doesn't need to pick it up. Having read all the various articles with the quotes from Wade and Jerry, what they are saying is that they don't envision him not starting because they do see him as one of the best on the team, but he does need to play better.

They're also not even entertaining the possibility that he might not be starting.

What happens if things don't improve with Roy Williams?

It seems to me that there's at least an equal proposition that the improvement that they're talking about doesn't happen. Recent history backs up that notion.

What happens then?

That says to me that Jerry Jones made a poor trade and now he's making a mandate of his coaches to make it work. Wade was right in what he said "the best players will play".

And yeah, why can't Ogletree be mentioned as a player who they want to see continue to improve. Maybe it's because they saw so much from him last year, they want him to continue to the next level. That's a sign of how much they like him that he's even mentioned. They're surely not pointing out Manuel Johnson or Jesse Holley from the practice squad as an up-and-comer.

Because if you're looking for someone to "pick it up", there's an infinitely better candidate on your roster than Kevin Ogletree - the guy who's costing you next-to-nothing.

Crayton pleading the 5th has all the makings of working the media and keeping things in-house. Total non-issue to me.

I guess we can tune out whatever we choose to.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Meh, Crayton's no comment only means he thinks he's better than he is, which we've known for a long time. I mean, the guy made similar comments when Miles replaced him.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Thanks. I would really like to see it.

Still looking. Me and the search function don't exactly get along.

They're also not even entertaining the possibility that he might not be starting.

What happens if things don't improve with Roy Williams
It seems to me that there's at least an equal proposition that the improvement that they're talking about doesn't happen. Recent history backs up that notion.

What happens then?

Then he'll be gone. It's really that simple. The team will be better off if Roy can pull it together. If he doesn't, then he's gone.

That says to me that Jerry Jones made a poor trade and now he's making a mandate of his coaches to make it work. Wade was right in what he said "the best players will play".

Because if you're looking for someone to "pick it up", there's an infinitely better candidate on your roster than Kevin Ogletree - the guy who's costing you next-to-nothing.

So Jerry talking up a young player like Kevin is ignoring Roy's disappointing play? And yet there are quotes all over the place from both Jerry and Wade saying Roy needs to pick it up and that it's the coaches job to help him improve. Why is that ignored?

Kevin is a young player who, it's obvious, the coaches think alot of him. Suggesting he take the next step isn't a slap in the face.

I guess we can tune out whatever we choose to.

Well what do you want Crayton to say? Should he put coaches and players on blast? Because I bet you that had he spoke his feelings openly, then we'd get all kinds of threads about how Crayton should shut up.

I don't care if Crayton is pissed by the situation or not. He did the right thing by not making the situation worse.

 

[Stash]

Still looking. Me and the search function don't exactly get along.

No problem. Take your time. I know in the meantime you've probably posted 10 informative articles for all of us to enjoy.

Then he'll be gone. It's really that simple. The team will be better off if Roy can pull it together. If he doesn't, then he's gone.

I gather that you're referring to "gone" as in 2011. That's too late in my opinion. That implies that he gets the 2010 season to handcuff the offense like he often did in 2009. I don't want to see a repeat of that this season. That does not advocate cutting him. It does mean that if his struggles continue, he should have to earn back his starting role, not have it handed to him. Not only has that not been said by Jones, it was refuted when Phillips mentioned "playing the best players".

So Jerry talking up a young player like Kevin is ignoring Roy's disappointing play? And yet there are quotes all over the place from both Jerry and Wade saying Roy needs to pick it up and that it's the coaches job to help him improve. Why is that ignored?

Kevin is a young player who, it's obvious, the coaches think alot of him. Suggesting he take the next step isn't a slap in the face.

I've heard Jerry "talk up" Ogletree before, and that wasn't it. That was threatening a guy's place on the roster. And if you're trying to send the "no player is safe" message, I think you can find better candidates than an undrafted player who far exceeded anyone's expectations.

Well what do you want Crayton to say? Should he put coaches and players on blast? Because I bet you that had he spoke his feelings openly, then we'd get all kinds of threads about how Crayton should shut up.

I don't care if Crayton is pissed by the situation or not. He did the right thing by not making the situation worse.

Oh I agree he handled it better than he could have and I applaud him for not telling the entire truth. But pleading the 5th is the next best things to admitting it. And his "non-comment" merely reinforces the idea that Williams "played because he gets paid", not because his production warranted it.

 

[PullMyFinger]

Jerry Jones the bumbling idiot in front of a mic....

Yeppers

 

[Screw The Hall]

If the owner takes the time to talk about you then it's a good thing. It's when you're not worth the trouble that it's time to worry. Ogletree will be fine.

 

[MONT17]

If the owner takes the time to talk about you then it's a good thing. It's when you're not worth the trouble that it's time to worry. Ogletree will be fine.

True... Jerry, like the rest of us... have given up on Roy (anything from him is a bonus) but on the other hand Jerry probally doesnt want Otree to immulate Roy or even Crayton and his big mouth!