Muhammad Ali’s ‘greatest’ gift to Dirk Nowitzki

[YosemiteSam]

Exactly.
Tyson = 0-2 against Holyfield

Those were also post Tyson's prime. Tyson had already fallen victim to his own success. Holyfield fought Tyson the first time in 1996. Tyson lost to Buster Douglas in 1990. That was six years *after* Tyson's fall from grace.

 

[CowboyDan]

Those were also post Tyson's prime. Tyson had already fallen victim to his own success. Holyfield fought Tyson the first time in 1996. Tyson lost to Buster Douglas in 1990. That was six years *after* Tyson's fall from grace.

You'll get no argument from me there. Who was the best fighter that Tyson has ever beaten?

 

[YosemiteSam]

George did not have the same power at 40 yet still took on the Camp in Holyfield who Tyson could not beat. In my view Tyson was not that great he was often off balance fighting in a weak field of heavy weights. Buster Douglas of all people beat him, it was a joke. Heavy Weight division to this day is a joke.

Tyson hadn't fought in in five years (prison) when he faced Holyfield in 1996. Tyson did himself in. Holyfield would have been brutalized if he fought Tyson in 1988. Remember Michael Spinks? He beat Larry Holmes but it took 15 rounds. Holmes was a very skilled boxer in his own right. Tyson took Spinks down in 91 seconds. Holmes decided to try his hand at Tyson. Remember I said Holmes was a highly skilled boxer? He had never in his entire career been knocked out. ....except once. 4th round again, you got it. Mike Tyson. Of course, this was 1988 and not Tyson 1990 and later who got soft, thought he could just walk in and beat anyone down. To much ego and lost all of the anger that he used to fight with.

Tyson in 1988 and Tyson 1990 and after and not the same fighter and you can't compare them that way. Tyson was a destroyer in 1988. Larry Holmes would have killed Tyson if he fought him two years later.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You'll get no argument from me there. Who was the best fighter that Tyson has ever beaten?

Larry Holmes. Big powerful and highly skilled. Especially late in his career.

 

[Doomsday101]

Larry Holmes. Big powerful and highly skilled. Especially late in his career.

Holmes was 39 when that fight had taken place and had retired

On January 22, 1988, Holmes was lured out of retirement by a $2.8 million purse to challenge reigning Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion Mike Tyson. Tyson dropped Holmes in the fourth round with an overhand right. Holmes got up, but Tyson put him down two more times in the round, and the fight was stopped. It was the only time Holmes would be knocked out in his lengthy career. After the fight. Holmes once again retired

 

[CowboyDan]

Tyson hadn't fought in in five years (prison) when he faced Holyfield in 1996. Tyson did himself in. Holyfield would have been brutalized if he fought Tyson in 1988. Remember Michael Spinks? He beat Larry Holmes but it took 15 rounds. Holmes was a very skilled boxer in his own right. Tyson took Spinks down in 91 seconds. Holmes decided to try his hand at Tyson. Remember I said Holmes was a highly skilled boxer? He had never in his entire career been knocked out. ....except once. 4th round again, you got it. Mike Tyson. Of course, this was 1988 and not Tyson 1990 and later who got soft, thought he could just walk in and beat anyone down. To much ego and lost all of the anger that he used to fight with.

Tyson in 1988 and Tyson 1990 and after and not the same fighter and you can't compare them that way. Tyson was a destroyer in 1988. Larry Holmes would have killed Tyson if he fought him two years later.

Holmes was, what, 39 years old in 88? I don't see how you're making points here. As anyone who watches boxing knows, all it takes is one punch, and that's what makes it so exciting. There's know question that the possibility of Tyson knocking out Ali would exist, if they were able to be matched up in their primes, but I rate it at a very slim percentage.
I'll give you this though.....I'd rather watch a Tyson fight in his prime over anybody else's. Pure viewing entertainment.

 

[CowboyDan]

Tyson always reminded me of Joe Frazier, style-wise

[youtube]0vUuXvAHlLQ&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[CowboyDan]

Tyson Vid - he was a destroyer, no question

[youtube]FLxNgjm8RgA&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[YosemiteSam]

Holmes was 39 when that fight had taken place and had retired

On January 22, 1988, Holmes was lured out of retirement by a $2.8 million purse to challenge reigning Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion Mike Tyson. Tyson dropped Holmes in the fourth round with an overhand right. Holmes got up, but Tyson put him down two more times in the round, and the fight was stopped. It was the only time Holmes would be knocked out in his lengthy career. After the fight. Holmes once again retired

Holmes would have beaten Tyson in 1990 at the age of 41. You do realize that Holmes boxed until 2002? His last match was against Butterbean which he won in a ten-round unanimous decision at the age of 51. Larry Holmes was a great fighter even at 39 when he fought Tyson. I think he kept retiring because people said he had too. (due to age) He definitely didn't want too as he fought over ten more times after he retired.

 

[Doomsday101]

Holmes would have beaten Tyson in 1990 at the age of 41. You do realize that Holmes boxed until 2002? His last match was against Butterbean which he won in a ten-round unanimous decision at the age of 51. Larry Holmes was a great fighter even at 39 when he fought Tyson. I think he kept retiring because people said he had too. (due to age) He definitely didn't want too as he fought over ten more times after he retired.

Yes he fought butter bean. Holmes was not a better fighter as he got old. Boxing is not an old man sport but my god there was no one in the heavy weight division worth a damn. For Million sure why not. Even today the Heavy Weight division is a complete joke and not worth watching.

 

[CowboyDan]

Holmes would have beaten Tyson in 1990 at the age of 41. You do realize that Holmes boxed until 2002? His last match was against Butterbean which he won in a ten-round unanimous decision at the age of 51. Larry Holmes was a great fighter even at 39 when he fought Tyson. I think he kept retiring because people said he had too. (due to age) He definitely didn't want too as he fought over ten more times after he retired.

Ok, so Holmes at 39 was Tyson's greatest victory?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Tyson Vid - he was a destroyer, no question

Nobody hit as hard as Tyson. This is why I said there is no way in hell anyone can say that Ali would have without question beaten Tyson in his prime. (1988)

If you watch the Foreman vs Ali fight from 1974. Now, put Tyson in Foreman's place and the beating that Ali took during that fight. Look at how hard Foreman hit and then look at how much harder Tyson hits. Ali would not have lasted eight rounds with Tyson pounding on him up against the ropes like he was.

Who would win that fight? I don't know and nobody can say with any certainty. If they do, they are talking about of their ***.

 

[Doomsday101]

Nobody hit as hard as Tyson. This is why I said there is no way in hell anyone can say that Ali would have without question beaten Tyson in his prime. (1988)

If you watch the Foreman vs Ali fight from 1974. Now, put Tyson in Foreman's place and the beating that Ali took during that fight. Look at how hard Foreman hit and then look at how much harder Tyson hits. Ali would not have lasted eight rounds with Tyson pounding on him up against the ropes like he was.

Who would win that fight? I don't know and nobody can say with any certainty. If they do, they are talking about of their ***.

That is an opinion who hit harder. Holyfield says no one hit him harder that Foreman and George did not have the same power in his late 40's than he did in his 20's.

 

[CowboyDan]

Nobody hit as hard as Tyson. This is why I said there is no way in hell anyone can say that Ali would have without question beaten Tyson in his prime. (1988)

If you watch the Foreman vs Ali fight from 1974. Now, put Tyson in Foreman's place and the beating that Ali took during that fight. Look at how hard Foreman hit and then look at how much harder Tyson hits. Ali would not have lasted eight rounds with Tyson pounding on him up against the ropes like he was.

Who would win that fight? I don't know and nobody can say with any certainty. If they do, they are talking about of their ***.

As I said, it only takes one punch.....from either man.

I thought you guys might enjoy this:

[youtube]ki4UKsI8bms&feature=related[/youtube]

There's a lot of mutual respect on that stage.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ok, so Holmes at 39 was Tyson's greatest victory?

Greatest? No, I would say smack down he laid on Michael Spinks in 91 seconds to become the lineal champion would be his greatest. It defined his career up until he single-handily destroyed it.

Best fighter he ever fought would be between Holmes and Holyfield. Those were the two best boxers he ever fought.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That is an opinion who hit harder. Holyfield says no one hit him harder that Foreman and George did not have the same power in his late 40's than he did in his 20's.

...and again. Holyfield fought Tyson after his stint in prison which was also *after* his boxing downfall.

 

[Doomsday101]

...and again. Holyfield fought Tyson after his stint in prison which was also *after* his boxing downfall.

and George fought him in his 40's and George was no where close to the same power he had in his 20's. To claim tyson hit harder how would you know that? All I can do is go by a man who has fought both

 

[YosemiteSam]

As I said, it only takes one punch.....from either man.

I thought you guys might enjoy this:

[youtube]ki4UKsI8bms&feature=related[/youtube]

There's a lot of mutual respect on that stage.

Good stuff. I was watching when that show first aired. Ali has an air about him. His presents, you know someone special is around you. I can only imagine it would be the way it felt when George Washington walked into a room.

 

[YosemiteSam]

and George fought him in his 40's and George was no where close to the same power he had in his 20's. To claim tyson hit harder how would you know that? All I can do is go by a man who has fought both

See video above that Dan posted. Foreman hit hard, but you can see the differences in the body's reaction after Tyson clubbed them.

Holyfield should be thanking god he didn't face Tyson in 1988.

This isn't even debatable in my book. /debateover

 

[CowboyDan]

And here's some of Muhammad's greatest hits:

[youtube]RmaHGY7BEog[/youtube]