CFZ My Boy Vander Doesn't Get His Due Props Around Here

[RustyBourneHorse]

He's consistently solid when he's healthy. I like what he's done lately.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The Madden-gamer-coaches don't like LVE because of his "numbers." In the real world, he means a lot to this defense. All you have to look to for evidence is what happened last year when he was out.

Exactly, and he is a clear leader on the defence.

 

[blueblood70]

What I want to say is . . . you are both making this more difficult and dramatic than it has to be.

Anyone who knows jack about football knows LVE is not an average player. He's actually an above average player. And players like him are not easy to find. If the position was so easy, and just any athlete with blazing fast speed, say, Damone Clarke, comparatively speaking. I guarantee you that Bobby Wagner is not still running a 4.4 40 at 33. He's probably lost that extra step that you have when you're in your youth, that if you're fast, and know how to turn it on, can't really be beaten in open field sports. It goes without speaking that the fastest guys know they have a burst over other players and it can help them make up for being initially hesitant, or just plain had another assignment so had a duty to be "out of position."

That's the thing with fans, though. That's the thing about all the dissing though. Fans lack actual context. We see parts of it from the outside, but what's really going on there ends up being constructed in imaginations about how they ought to be versus how they are.

Fans aren't really considering that while a player may be out of position that he was playing his zone in the defense. Only those guys with an initial burst can walk down a player who broke an angle on him with pure speed, and most importantly acceleration. Most plays for a LBer aren't going to be take two steps to your right when your coach got out-witted and threw a left swing to the outside to the fastest guy. And, well, maybe some LBers can recover from getting beaten. But at some point, even the guys with the most burst on defense can get beat. What I've seen LVE get beaten on was really not his assignment. He just doesn't come up to make the play. But, again, he's staying to the DQ. And I think that's what matters. It's good to have a great team and another good linebacker like LVE. And we need him to suck it up and take lower pay to stay here, when I believe he could get more elsewhere, just to be a Cowboy.

That's the part I don't get about the LVE hate. So I just wanted to say what I was thinking after that game: we see you, LVE.

Keep upholding that standard.

So you come in with a really long response to say that we're making it more difficult than it has to be then you agree with pretty much everything I already said but thanks I'm glad you chimed in to resolve our issues here you basically said the same things I said I was defending him but also being real about who he is this other guy's saying he shouldn't even be on the team...

 

[Qcard]

I read on Cowboyszone. I get on the Youtube shows. And I hear a lot of talk about how Vander Esch is the problem.

Pardon me?

Are we even watching the same game? He just happens to play in the shadow of Parsons. And if he didn't, he'd be one of our better players. He just plays a different role than I think we'd have him playing, if Parsons were otherwise not here.

Parsons is a luxury, but Vander Esch came up big today when called upon, and that's why I believe he's still here: he bought into DQs system and rides and dies by the sword of DQ. He showed it last year. He certainly wasn't the problem at San Fran. He just takes on a lot of responsibility in his role. He's also tough, and he'll be out there if he can.

Anyway, the other thing people are freaking out about is Deuce. You have to chill on that because he is going to get stuffed two times. Then bust a 20 yarder on you. Or longer. It's just how he plays. People are going to love him and hate him.

I'm glad to see Gallup still making progress. I want to see him work on his speed, week to week. Like really focus on his speed as a player. And from there, I think it could still be nothing but up for him. He'll have to get better over these next 6 weeks. And I think he will. He needs to check himself though, and get faster.

Still, it hasn't been an easy road for MG. And I don't think it will be an easy ride for Diggs either, given how important it is for CBs to cut and change speeds, accelerate, overall agility etcetera. Everyone says 1 year for an ACL. But it's more like 18 months even with the stem cell treatment. And we're getting there with Diggs, who I think will partake in the most succinct path to recovery possible.

I also want to give a shout out to my boy Doran Bland. The guy has some game and really just needed a shot, imo. I hope he keeps up the consistent, persistent work ethic. I see a future star in the making, perhaps.

In Dan Quinn we trust but LVE at 6'ft 5" almost 250lbs lacks the physicality you'd expect from a LB that size.

 

[1time4urMind]

That will never happen so I'm not reading past the line about you meeting Dan Quinn and having a whiskey and by the way I bet he would not tell you the truth either way they don't go and do that especially with a fan.. No a Jag salary would be a veteran minimum on a non guaranteed contract let's keep that straight your version of Jag is not L VE he's just a mid level veteran not a Jag like I said why didn't they go after anymore linebackers why did they resign him I guarantee if Dan Quinn wanted it they would at least went out and got somebody that he liked more regardless if it was Wagner or somebody else we don't know but you're sitting here arguing with the wrong person I'm telling you right now Jerry likes Dan Quinn he wants to appease Dan Quinn and I'll bet if Dan Quinn truly didn't want Leighton vander ash here he would not be here they could have got off his contract..

Lol I'm not arguing. Your posts make little sense.
So what if Jerry likes Dan Quinn. That has nothing to do with anything that's been said.
You're a piece of work. Lol You just type a bunch of words and phrases that don't really relate. Weird.

 

[1time4urMind]

What I want to say is . . . you are both making this more difficult and dramatic than it has to be.

Anyone who knows jack about football knows LVE is not an average player. He's actually an above average player. And players like him are not easy to find. If the position was so easy, and just any athlete with blazing fast speed, say, Damone Clarke, comparatively speaking. I guarantee you that Bobby Wagner is not still running a 4.4 40 at 33. He's probably lost that extra step that you have when you're in your youth, that if you're fast, and know how to turn it on, can't really be beaten in open field sports. It goes without speaking that the fastest guys know they have a burst over other players and it can help them make up for being initially hesitant, or just plain had another assignment so had a duty to be "out of position."

That's the thing with fans, though. That's the thing about all the dissing though. Fans lack actual context. We see parts of it from the outside, but what's really going on there ends up being constructed in imaginations about how they ought to be versus how they are.

Fans aren't really considering that while a player may be out of position that he was playing his zone in the defense. Only those guys with an initial burst can walk down a player who broke an angle on him with pure speed, and most importantly acceleration. Most plays for a LBer aren't going to be take two steps to your right when your coach got out-witted and threw a left swing to the outside to the fastest guy. And, well, maybe some LBers can recover from getting beaten. But at some point, even the guys with the most burst on defense can get beat. What I've seen LVE get beaten on was really not his assignment. He just doesn't come up to make the play. But, again, he's staying to the DQ. And I think that's what matters. It's good to have a great team and another good linebacker like LVE. And we need him to suck it up and take lower pay to stay here, when I believe he could get more elsewhere, just to be a Cowboy.

That's the part I don't get about the LVE hate. So I just wanted to say what I was thinking after that game: we see you, LVE.

Keep upholding that standard.

I will continue to say that I like LVE. Just because he's a JAG doesn't mean I don't like him nor have been screaming for him to be cut.
A little below average, a little above average, whatever. His tape is frustrating. If we are talking about a weak link in a great D, his name is at the top of that list. That's just objective. His hesitancy, missteps, difficulty recovering, difficulty shedding blocks, difficulty with misdirection, a 260 lb LB arm tackling and being dragged 5 yards down field... Those things are consistent on tape even when he is making plays... which is understandable for a player whose average.

 

[1time4urMind]

this other guy's saying he shouldn't even be on the team...

I think he's the weak link. I think his tape shows an average-ish player who is inconsistent. I think that Parsons was supposed to replace him but turned out to be something else entirely. I think that we let him hit free agency after not picking up his fifth year option because we could live without him. I think we resigned him as insurance with the hope of him being a depth/role player. I think they resigned him because he was the right kind of JAG whose best fit was this system, and he was at the right kind of price. I think this is actually consistent with how the personnel department runs things. I think it is a great thing that we signed LVE considering where we are at LB right now. I think I can like a player but be realistic about his abilities. I think LVE is a backup or bridge player in this league at this point in his career. I think that he is starting because plans to upgrade the position did not pan out... except Parsons thankfully ended up being too good to take LVE starting position @ MLB.

 

[blueblood70]

Lol I'm not arguing. Your posts make little sense.
So what if Jerry likes Dan Quinn. That has nothing to do with anything that's been said.
You're a piece of work. Lol You just type a bunch of words and phrases that don't really relate. Weird.

yours make les sense to me..later troll so ditto

 

[Sheepherder]

I think he's the weak link. I think his tape shows an average-ish player who is inconsistent. I think that Parsons was supposed to replace him but turned out to be something else entirely. I think that we let him hit free agency after not picking up his fifth year option because we could live without him. I think we resigned him as insurance with the hope of him being a depth/role player. I think they resigned him because he was the right kind of JAG whose best fit was this system, and he was at the right kind of price. I think this is actually consistent with how the personnel department runs things. I think it is a great thing that we signed LVE considering where we are at LB right now. I think I can like a player but be realistic about his abilities. I think LVE is a backup or bridge player in this league at this point in his career. I think that he is starting because plans to upgrade the position did not pan out... except Parsons thankfully ended up being too good to take LVE starting position @ MLB.

I think he's the weak link. I think his tape shows an average-ish player who is inconsistent. I think that Parsons was supposed to replace him but turned out to be something else entirely. I think that we let him hit free agency after not picking up his fifth year option because we could live without him. I think we resigned him as insurance with the hope of him being a depth/role player. I think they resigned him because he was the right kind of JAG whose best fit was this system, and he was at the right kind of price. I think this is actually consistent with how the personnel department runs things. I think it is a great thing that we signed LVE considering where we are at LB right now. I think I can like a player but be realistic about his abilities. I think LVE is a backup or bridge player in this league at this point in his career. I think that he is starting because plans to upgrade the position did not pan out... except Parsons thankfully ended up being too good to take LVE starting position @ MLB.

I disagree with you. The last two years, he has played quiet well. He is above average and for the most part, he shows up. Go outside and fly a kite or something.

 

[1time4urMind]

yours make les sense to me..later troll so ditto

OK. I've posted nothing inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive. You calling me a troll covers all three.
Be honest, are you LVE's mom?

 

[1time4urMind]

I disagree with you. The last two years, he has played quiet well

That's cool.

In a fantasy world where you could choose the weakest starting link on our starting defense and upgrade, who would it be?

 

[catiii]

As far as Deuce he hasn't gotten good blocking thus far but has made the best of his agility to gain any yardage into the middle of the dline

Deuce is being used incorrectly. It's like none of our coaches ever watched his college tape.

 

[Sheepherder]

That's cool.

In a fantasy world where you could choose the weakest starting link on our starting defense and upgrade, who would it be?

I disagree with you. The last two years, he has played quiet well. He is above average and for the most part, he shows up. Go outside and fly a kite or something.

That's cool.

In a fantasy world where you could choose the weakest starting link on our starting defense and upgrade, who would it be?

Go ask Dan Quinn that question. I'm not a coach. For me, it would have to be somebody on the defensive line.

 

[Pass2Run]

There's a good reason why the Cowboys kept LVE active for the past 2 years. His play has been solid since his days of injury. Once a player's performance experiences a slump, far too many of us ignore what comes afterward. He's a valuable member of the defense again these days. LVE deserves far more credit than he gets on this website.
Woe be to a player who goes through a bout of injury around here. It's never forgiven. Tough crowd . . .

Well said, flop.

 

[Pass2Run]

So you come in with a really long response to say that we're making it more difficult than it has to be then you agree with pretty much everything I already said but thanks I'm glad you chimed in to resolve our issues here you basically said the same things I said I was defending him but also being real about who he is this other guy's saying he shouldn't even be on the team...

Yeah, I was just saying the same thing, without making it personal. Or trying not to. I don't understand that, especially in my old age.

 

[1time4urMind]

Go ask Dan Quinn that question. I'm not a coach. For me, it would have to be somebody on the defensive line.

Wow. Sorry. That was a legit question.
My friend and I were just debating that. I asked you because of your statement that he "played quiet well. He is above average and for the most part, he shows up". Figured you were watching and had opinions. Lol

So, defensive line... Lawrence, Hankins, Osa, or Armstrong is the answer I think I'm hearing. Fair enough.

BTW, I like flying kites.

 

[RonWashington]

Overall LVE has been worth the pick it took to get him . LVE is far down my list of concerns . If he stays healthy plays decent LB this yr still young enough to bring back to a team friendly deal in 24 .

I like a young player like Clark teamed with 55 & 11 . Need all three to come up big Sunday .

 

[KeepinTime]

Lol of course Sean Lee was better. Without injuries Lee could have been in hall of fame. The guy was unbelievable good when he was on the field.

I still remember being at a pre-season game where Doug Baldwin absolutely blindside pummeled him and thinking, “I wonder if that guy is gonna ever be the same again.” You’ve gotta give props because it wasn’t for a lack of ability and desire, it was having to constantly battle injury after injury.

 

[cowboyed]

LVE is the crew leader of the linebacker unit that also communication overlaps to a functional degree with the defensive line and secondary. If he wasn't doing his job to expectations someone else would be in that position either on the team or via a trade.

 

[JoeKing]

Vander Esch is too slow and often follows the play rather than making the play. This was very obvious in Micha Parson's rookie year when he played LB next to Vander Esch.