My Cowboy plan.

[5Countem5]

What exactly has Tank Johnson done since he's been here that makes you lump him in with those other two?

Beat me to it...+1

 

[5Countem5]

Owens has created a circus, and probably a sense of uneasyness on offense. We have plenty of talent to go around without him. I think we would be better off.

You get that directly or indirectly from Ed Werder ?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It got silly right here:

"On the same day you fire Wade Phillips, you release or announce that you will not resign the following players: Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, and Terrell Owens."

Yep, that took it out of the realm of reality right away.

Parcells ripped Flo and Romo for their mistakes... It didn't change them.

As for "the more a coach is disliked the more respect he eventually gets"... The Rams absolutely hated Scott Linehan. The respect never came.

I appreciate the thread as an attempt at real discussion. I would make this team less of a circus, hunker down, and try to build a team like the Panthers or Giants that run the ball and play physical defense, too. But with Jerry, that's not going to happen.

And you know, the Jags have been an example of that tough, physical team, too, and they even have a tough guy disciplinarian head coach. (And he's even young and camera-friendly, too, which means a lot to some people.) But they're still having an awful, awful year. Mike Holmgren is another noted hardass and he had a disaster of a year.

So there's no one solution. And there's no one blueprint of a coach that works.

IMO the most important thing we can do is keep drafting well. You can say what a great coach Coughlin is, but they've drafted tremendously the last few years. Osi and Tuck and Jacobs and Snee aren't good players because Coughlin yelled at them so much. They're just good, tough, hard-nosed football players. We need to keep adding high-character people like that more than anything.

 

[Wrangler87]

LOL

Who in their right mind wants Cowher?

Retread coaches NEVER work- except Vermeil or Shula. Just look at Jimmy or Lombardi or Parcells or Holmgren or George Allen, or Mike Ditka or Gibbs or any others.

Or you can look at Belichick, Coughlin, Dungy, and Gruden, but they don't support your point.

 

[bysbox1]

You let the next HC candidates know early that they will not have to deal with these three underachieving disruptions. Think Cowher wants to deal with the Pacman mess or TO's whinning?

Tank and Pacman I can buy into that.

But TO is your only fire on offense right now. And his whining is because he wants to win, not because he's making fuss off the field. As a matter of fact, he's an outstanding citizen off the field.

I wish all of these guys got and flustered as he does when we don't win. We may be in a better position right now.

Plus we just resigned him to a big contract. I am certain there will be major cap implications cutting him less than a year removed from resigning him.

 

[Wrangler87]

Osi and Tuck and Jacobs and Snee aren't good players because Coughlin yelled at them so much. They're just good, tough, hard-nosed football players. We need to keep adding high-character people like that more than anything

Yeah, but they were not surrounded by high profile underachieving players who "got their money" or care more about stats than wins.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yep, that took it out of the realm of reality right away.

Parcells ripped Flo and Romo for their mistakes... It didn't change them.

As for "the more a coach is disliked the more respect he eventually gets"... The Rams absolutely hated Scott Linehan. The respect never came.

I appreciate the thread as an attempt at real discussion. I would make this team less of a circus, hunker down, and try to build a team like the Panthers or Giants that run the ball and play physical defense, too. But with Jerry, that's not going to happen.

And you know, the Jags have been an example of that tough, physical team, too, and they even have a tough guy disciplinarian head coach. (And he's even young and camera-friendly, too, which means a lot to some people.) But they're still having an awful, awful year. Mike Holmgren is another noted hardass and he had a disaster of a year.

So there's no one solution. And there's no one blueprint of a coach that works.

IMO the most important thing we can do is keep drafting well. You can say what a great coach Coughlin is, but they've drafted tremendously the last few years. Osi and Tuck and Jacobs and Snee aren't good players because Coughlin yelled at them so much. They're just good, tough, hard-nosed football players. We need to keep adding high-character people like that more than anything.

Good points CL. I checked back in this thread when I saw you posted because I appreciate your input.

As frustrated as I am right now, I have to acknowledge your point about "no one solution". My son was upset after the game the other night and I told him I had watched this team for over 35 years and unfortunately there are more disappointing moments than there are victorious moments. That's just the way that it is. Staubach lost in his last game. Landry's teams played terribly in NFC championship games against the Skins and the Vikings. It's just the way it is and there is no easy solution.

Having said all that, I want a HC who is a winner and a leader. Wade's record of having NEVER won a playoff game is for a good reason. He is a very good defensive coach but he's not a good HC.

 

[rangers71]

Why in the world would you want to move a pro bowl player in Ratliff to end? Don't create 2 problems by trying to fix one.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Good points CL. I checked back in this thread when I saw you posted because I appreciate your input.

As frustrated as I am right now, I have to acknowledge your point about "no one solution". My son was upset after the game the other night and I told him I had watched this team for over 35 years and unfortunately there are more disappointing moments than there are victorious moments. That's just the way that it is. Staubach lost in his last game. Landry's teams played terribly in NFC championship games against the Skins and the Vikings. It's just the way it is and there is no easy solution.

Having said all that, I want a HC who is a winner and a leader. Wade's record of having NEVER won a playoff game is for a good reason. He is a very good defensive coach but he's not a good HC.

We did lay an egg twice against the Foreskins in the playoffs (NFC Title games), but I'm pretty sure we never lost an NFC championship game against the Vikings. We won the Hail Mary game (playoff game, but NFC title game) and we beat the Vikes again in the NFC Championship game in January 1978 (beat the Broncos in the Super Bowl). I don't think they ever beat us in an NFC Championship game.

 

[Wrangler87]

Why in the world would you want to move a pro bowl player in Ratliff to end? Don't create 2 problems by trying to fix one.

He would excell at DE. He is playing out of position right now, and he made it to the probowl, mostly by his play on third down, often from the DE spot. He gets sacks in big situations, but he also gets comletely wipped out by double teams on many running plays. A Nose Tackles job is to take on double teams and hold ground, allowing the LB's to make the tackles. Ratliff, for as good as he has been on passing downs, gets obliterated by double teams. If you want him around in three or four years, get him out of the NT postion and let him excell even more at DE.

 

[Chief]

I just don't know if Jerry will ever understand what makes up the chemistry of a winning team.

Jerry doesn't get it.

He says chemistry is overrated.

Troy Aikman said last week that he has always disagreed with Jerry on that philosophy.

 

[5Countem5]

Or you can look at Belichick, Coughlin, Dungy, and Gruden, but they don't support your point.

I was talking about Super Bowl winning coaches being brought in to "save" a franchise .... I am not sayoing hiring a coach from another team doesn't work- I am saying these guys that retire and the come back rarely works.

 

[dannyboy]

Here is how I fix this team:

Start by firing Wade Phillips as soon as the season ends. I like Wade. He is a good coach. But this team needs a coach that is a disciplinarian. This bunch of guys need a HC that they simply don't like. A guy like Tom Coughlin, who all the players hated two years ago and a couple of the bad apples tried to get fired. Well, the Giants got rid of the bad apples, and look what happened when the rest fell in line. That is what this team needs. I feel sorry for Wade, but he must take the fall as soon as the season ends, barring a miracle Championship. All the Special Teams Coaches and Stewart go with him. Next, you weed out those bad apples:

On the same day you fire Wade Phillips, you release or announce that you will not resign the following players: Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, and Terrell Owens. You send a message. You get rid of the players that will give your next HC the most resistance and you do it in a fashion that will send a message to the rest of the team. We can afford to get rid of these three. Only Owens will have an impact, but Austin or Crayton will have to step up opposite Williams and I think Austin can. Along with the return of Felix, Hurd the development of Bennett, the familiarity of Roy Williams, and Witten, we have plenty of weapons without his attitude.

Then, you hire your Head Coach. Don't give me some BS about a GM. Look at last year's draft. We can find talent. We have talent. We need a real HC. A guy that will hurt some feelings, on a regular basis. A guy that will punish Adams for every false start penalty. A guy that will rip Rolmo when he throws a stupid pass. A guy that will not be like, but will be respected. A couple of names to start with; of course Bill Cowher, Russ Grimm, Marty Schottenheimer, and Mike Singletary just for starters. The more unpopular they are with the players, the more repect they will eventually get. It will turn from a bunch of talented underachieving superstars to a team of great players under the right guidance.

Next, you fix a few postions, but not much. It's not necessary. Also gone, due to play: Anthony Henry, Bobby Carpenter, Cory Proctor and any backup offensive lineman who could not start in front of Proctor. I know there are salary cap implications, but remember, 2010 is a capless year so now is the time to do it. Also, I try to keep Roy Williams 31 if he can recover. Not as a starter, but I still think they guy can contribute on ST's, defensive packages, and in the locker room. I just like the guy on my team.

Lastly, fill your holes. Here they are;

Run-stuffing Nose Tackle- Move Ratliff to DE where he can make more of an impact and sign the best run stuffing NT out there. Then, draft another run-stuffing NT in the middle rounds to back him up in case of injury.

Real Free Safety- Hamlin is not it. Killer is not it. Watkins should have been on my cut list. Use your first pick in the draft to draft the best FS out there. plain and simple.

Backup O-lineman who can actually play- We have one in Holland. The rest of the draft should be used on the O-line. We have plenty of depth at most other positions, even with my six major cuts/trade (Carp) (Tank, Pac, TO, Carp, Henry, Proctor). The O-line must be addressed with the same accuracy that we achieved in last year's draft.

Back-up QB- I am no where off the Romo bandwagon. I think he is more injured than we know. But we cannot have a repeat of this mess. You do that by signing a decent back-up QB. If Bollinger is not the answer, look at a guy like Kitna or a Chris Simms. But get it taken care of. Johnson will not be back.

Well, that's a start. Bottom line is, the whole attitude of this team needs to change. We have the talent, the pieces are there. But does anyone truly think we can win it all with this team in it's current state? A new HC and get rid of some of our bad apples and you would see an entirely different team take the field next season. If we bring back the same mess, the results will be just as messy.

Although i agree with you that Wade needs to be tougher, we need to look at the way the defense has played since he took over as well as the injuries over the course of the year. I see him coming back.

As far as TO, he is signed for another 3 years. With Pacman, we can see how he handles the offseason. Tank could go

Everyone keeps talking about moving Ratliff to DE when he is an Pro Bowl NT. Keep him where he is. I would still draft a big NT between 2nd-4th rounds to back him up and come in on running downs. I would sign Canty depending on what he is asking and resign Spears next year as well.

Same goes for drafting a FS(2nd-4th). I think Henry will go to FS this offseason. I would keep RW one more year to see what he can do. Use RW and KH on running downs and AH and KH on passing downs.

I like the idea of bringing in Simms as the backup at QB

Carp should probably be traded at this point so we need to look at backup ILB and we really need to see what the young OTs are worth keepng

 

[Chocolate Lab]

He would excell at DE. He is playing out of position right now, and he made it to the probowl, mostly by his play on third down, often from the DE spot. He gets sacks in big situations, but he also gets comletely wipped out by double teams on many running plays. A Nose Tackles job is to take on double teams and hold ground, allowing the LB's to make the tackles. Ratliff, for as good as he has been on passing downs, gets obliterated by double teams. If you want him around in three or four years, get him out of the NT postion and let him excell even more at DE.

But see, you can't just say, "Sign the best NT out there and draft another one", because who is this person?

Great 34 nosetackles like you describe aren't just out there waiting to be signed and drafted. They're hard to find.

I mean, I'd like to do that, too, but so would everyone. In real practice it's not that easy. Same thing with replacing Hamlin. I know Hamlin's the goat right now for that game the other night, but he's a pretty darn good player and he was a fairly high draft pick himself. Simply drafting a better replacement and benching him, especially with the deal he just signed, isn't realistic.

 

[JJB500]

We did lay an egg twice against the Foreskins in the playoffs (NFC Title games), but I'm pretty sure we never lost an NFC championship game against the Vikings. We won the Hail Mary game (playoff game, but NFC title game) and we beat the Vikes again in the NFC Championship game in January 1978 (beat the Broncos in the Super Bowl). I don't think they ever beat us in an NFC Championship game.

In 1973 they beat Dallas 27-10, then they lost to Miami in Super Bowl VIII.

 

[Wrangler87]

But see, you can't just say, "Sign the best NT out there and draft another one", because who is this person?

Great 34 nosetackles like you describe aren't just out there waiting to be signed and drafted. They're hard to find.

I mean, I'd like to do that, too, but so would everyone. In real practice it's not that easy. Same thing with replacing Hamlin. I know Hamlin's the goat right now for that game the other night, but he's a pretty darn good player and he was a fairly high draft pick himself. Simply drafting a better replacement and benching him, especially with the deal he just signed, isn't realistic.

I don't want to bench Hamlin, but move him to SS. He is not a ball hawk that we need at FS. His tackling has not been bad accept for Saturday.

I don't know who the free agent NT's are, I have not researched it. Isn't the Steelers NT a Free Agent. Ultimately, that is the GM and scouts job since it is a position that takes a lot of film study and really does not show it's head through statistics alone. More like a good Guard. You have to watch film.

 

[Wrangler87]

Although i agree with you that Wade needs to be tougher, we need to look at the way the defense has played since he took over as well as the injuries over the course of the year. I see him coming back.

As far as TO, he is signed for another 3 years. With Pacman, we can see how he handles the offseason. Tank could go

Everyone keeps talking about moving Ratliff to DE when he is an Pro Bowl NT. Keep him where he is. I would still draft a big NT between 2nd-4th rounds to back him up and come in on running downs. I would sign Canty depending on what he is asking and resign Spears next year as well.

Same goes for drafting a FS(2nd-4th). I think Henry will go to FS this offseason. I would keep RW one more year to see what he can do. Use RW and KH on running downs and AH and KH on passing downs.

I like the idea of bringing in Simms as the backup at QB

Carp should probably be traded at this point so we need to look at backup ILB and we really need to see what the young OTs are worth keepng

Most of Ratliff's big plays have come on third down from the DE postion or rushing the Center from the NT postion, on third down. But, he gets destroyed by the double team on a lot of running plays. You move him to DE, get a real 350 lb NT for first and second down and short yardage. Then, on third down, you can move him back over the Center to rush if you really want to.

 

[5Countem5]

I don't want to bench Hamlin, but move him to SS. He is not a ball hawk that we need at FS. His tackling has not been bad accept for Saturday.

I don't know who the free agent NT's are, I have not researched it. Isn't the Steelers NT a Free Agent. Ultimately, that is the GM and scouts job since it is a position that takes a lot of film study and really does not show it's head through statistics alone. More like a good Guard. You have to watch film.

Didn't the GM and scouts bring in these troubled players that you want gone so bad? How can you trust them?

Shouldn't they be fired too?

 

[5Countem5]

Most of Ratliff's big plays have come on third down from the DE postion or rushing the Center from the NT postion, on third down. But, he gets destroyed by the double team on a lot of running plays. You move him to DE, get a real 350 lb NT for first and second down and short yardage. Then, on third down, you can move him back over the Center to rush if you really want to.

Yep----

Just call 1-800-3/4nosetackle


Easy-peasy...

 

[Wrangler87]

Didn't the GM and scouts bring in these troubled players that you want gone so bad? How can you trust them?

Shouldn't they be fired too?

No, but they did have a lot to do with this years draft. Have you taken a look at how that worked out lately?