My son's mom was an illegal immigrant when she was 2 months old

[xwalker]

I commend your stance, Trouty. Just wish you could have seen the light prior and been educating people on the issue.

Immigration is not a federal issue, per article 1, section 9 of the US constitution, it is a state and local issue.

Further, federal government is not constitutionally allowed to own land outside of Washington DC. Thus, they have no place to build walls and borders.

Border lands were expected to be owned by you and I, citizens, for private use.

As such, each individual owner is allowed to decide who comes onto their property. Just like the white lady could decide your son's mom could be in her pickup, no difference.

The problem is two fold:

1) People do not understand resident vs. citizen. Immigrants are residents, naturalized residents are citizens, but they are 2 separate classes. You can be just a resident.
2) People are upset they're being given tax dollars as welfare. Well, how about we QUIT HANDING OUT WELFARE!

Problem solved.

It's a complicated issue.

I don't think illegals get welfare, do they?

The biggest issue has been the strain on free county hospitals.

Some complain about schools but they pay property taxes either indirectly through renting or directly through home ownership.

The system actually works fairly well now but it would be good to find a way to tax them. An employeer would pay more tax if hiring illegals because their wages are not tax deductible.

The solution to everything would be replacing the income tax with a national sales tax. Then everyone pays tax including illegals, visitors, etc. The national sales tax would cover imported goods. Currently foreign businesses pay zero US income tax but sell their products here and compete with US businesses that do pay US income tax.

Imagine no IRS or income tax returns.

 

[DFWJC]

It's a complicated issue.

I don't think illegals get welfare, do they?

The biggest issue has been the strain on free county hospitals.

Some complain about schools but they pay property taxes either indirectly through renting or directly through home ownership.

The system actually works fairly well now but it would be good to find a way to tax them. An employeer would pay more tax if hiring illegals because their wages are not tax deductible.

The solution to everything would be replacing the income tax with a national sales tax. Then everyone pays tax including illegals, visitors, etc. The national sales tax would cover imported goods. Currently foreign businesses pay zero US income tax but sell their products here and compete with US businesses that do pay US income tax.

Imagine no IRS or income tax returns.

Parkland hospital delivered more than 10,000 babies to illegal parents at taxpayers (and hospital's) expense last year. They have a program in place for that.
Meanwhile, a lower middle class "legal" family often takes a pretty bad beating financially on something like that.
The same applies to college applications and grants to "dreamers". I won't say front of the line for applicants, but close.
I thought all kids (legal or not) should have dreams. I'm perfectly fine with providing opportunities across the board, but there should be huge value for citizenship...and whether it was intended or not, there often is not.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

Yes and no regarding illegals and welfare.

I only know of it working when the parents use their American born child's SSN for food stamps and chip. I have never heard of them getting anything else other then those two things.

When I worked for the IRS, I saw more fraud with illegals when they filed their tax returns and receive in the range of 5,000 - 8,500 in refunds. The highest I had seen was around 15,000. I am not exaggerating and it wasn't uncommon to see it in the 10,000s.

For those of you that do not know, tax law requires everyone, including illegals to report their income regardless of legality (drugs, prostitution, etc) to Uncle Sam. The caveat is since illegals do not have SSN they have to file for an ITIN so they can report their income. You know someone has an ITIN because it always start with a 9xx-xx-xxxx whereas SSN never begin with a 9. Since most people who file with an ITIN do not register to work through legal means and are often payed in cash or use someone elses SSN so there are a lot of discrepancies on how much they actually earn. they pretty much can make up whatever they earned with the help of their tax preparers to create their own w2's and 1099's without much resistance. These people would abuse the system by reporting enough but not too much so they can receive the maximum amount of the earned income credit, child tax credit, and the additional child tax credit. That's another thing, these same people also obtain ITIN's for every single child they know nephew, niece, cousin, siblings, neighbors kids, etc and claim them as dependents.

One more thing illegals do with ITIN's is they would report income earned in their home country (if they go back, which often they did) and claim that as income in the USA to receive a refund and have it mailed to a PO box or sometimes directly to them in whatever country they live in.

It's real slimeball ****.

It's a complicated issue.

I don't think illegals get welfare, do they?

The biggest issue has been the strain on free county hospitals.

Some complain about schools but they pay property taxes either indirectly through renting or directly through home ownership.

The system actually works fairly well now but it would be good to find a way to tax them. An employeer would pay more tax if hiring illegals because their wages are not tax deductible.

The solution to everything would be replacing the income tax with a national sales tax. Then everyone pays tax including illegals, visitors, etc. The national sales tax would cover imported goods. Currently foreign businesses pay zero US income tax but sell their products here and compete with US businesses that do pay US income tax.

Imagine no IRS or income tax returns.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's a complicated issue.

I don't think illegals get welfare, do they?

The biggest issue has been the strain on free county hospitals.

Some complain about schools but they pay property taxes either indirectly through renting or directly through home ownership.

The system actually works fairly well now but it would be good to find a way to tax them. An employeer would pay more tax if hiring illegals because their wages are not tax deductible.

The solution to everything would be replacing the income tax with a national sales tax. Then everyone pays tax including illegals, visitors, etc. The national sales tax would cover imported goods. Currently foreign businesses pay zero US income tax but sell their products here and compete with US businesses that do pay US income tax.

Imagine no IRS or income tax returns.

Sales taxes are regressive as hell. I agree that one should be implemented to even out the playing field for small business trying to compete with interstate corporations but not at the expense of the progressive income tax.

 

[JoeKing]

Identity or document fraud and tax evasion are common crimes committed by undocumented workers but those that defend them would have us believe crossing the border was their only crime.

 

[jwooten15]

Man, Trouty! Bringing up one of the majorly sensitive issues here, buddy Hopefully things can remain civil in here!

I definitely understand the reason for your strong believe on the subject! I, myself, am very torn on it.

My very best friend on this earth is an illegal. He and I have a very long history and I trust him with my life. He's been in the country for 20+ years, owns his own landscaping business and house, and has an amazing wife. Works hard and would literally do anything he could to help another person.

So on a personal level, I see my friend and the millions of illegal immigrants like him (who are more productive "citizens" than a lot of ACTUAL Americans), and I say there's no way he should ever be deported or have to face deportation.

But on a macro-level, I think that immigration regulations need to and should be enforced. So many illegals know that if they can make it to America and have a kid or two, they'll be set. As others have mentioned, the luxuries they are able to receive sometime even outweigh the average, middle-class American. I don't think that should be the case. Sanctuary cities are also a huge issue for me.

On the other hand though, I think America makes it ENTIRELY too difficult to get proper documentation to become a citizen. I have seen my friend and his wife fight and struggle with these agencies for years, and they make it damn-near impossible to become "legal". I won't go into details, this is already along post. But that is another huge hurdle that should be addressed and simplified. Don't make it EASY to become legal, but make it moderately achievable. A lot of illegals DO want to become legal, but the system works against them.

I guess you can see why I'm torn on this topic. Like most of these pressing issues facing America today, there really is no easy answer.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

Identity or document fraud and tax evasion are common crimes committed by undocumented workers but those that defend them would have us believe crossing the border was their only crime.

This implies that undocumented workers are only crossing through touching borders. Don't forget about the ones that come illegally from Europe, Australia, china, Japan, india, etc.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

It's a complicated issue.

I don't think illegals get welfare, do they?

The biggest issue has been the strain on free county hospitals.

Some complain about schools but they pay property taxes either indirectly through renting or directly through home ownership.

The system actually works fairly well now but it would be good to find a way to tax them. An employeer would pay more tax if hiring illegals because their wages are not tax deductible.

The solution to everything would be replacing the income tax with a national sales tax. Then everyone pays tax including illegals, visitors, etc. The national sales tax would cover imported goods. Currently foreign businesses pay zero US income tax but sell their products here and compete with US businesses that do pay US income tax.

Imagine no IRS or income tax returns.

Recent reports put the cost at $180 billion annually.

And that isnt a solution because taxation is theft.

 

[Montanalo]

Man, Trouty! Bringing up one of the majorly sensitive issues here, buddy Hopefully things can remain civil in here!

I definitely understand the reason for your strong believe on the subject! I, myself, am very torn on it.

My very best friend on this earth is an illegal. He and I have a very long history and I trust him with my life. He's been in the country for 20+ years, owns his own landscaping business and house, and has an amazing wife. Works hard and would literally do anything he could to help another person.

So on a personal level, I see my friend and the millions of illegal immigrants like him (who are more productive "citizens" than a lot of ACTUAL Americans), and I say there's no way he should ever be deported or have to face deportation.

But on a macro-level, I think that immigration regulations need to and should be enforced. So many illegals know that if they can make it to America and have a kid or two, they'll be set. As others have mentioned, the luxuries they are able to receive sometime even outweigh the average, middle-class American. I don't think that should be the case. Sanctuary cities are also a huge issue for me.

On the other hand though, I think America makes it ENTIRELY too difficult to get proper documentation to become a citizen. I have seen my friend and his wife fight and struggle with these agencies for years, and they make it damn-near impossible to become "legal". I won't go into details, this is already along post. But that is another huge hurdle that should be addressed and simplified. Don't make it EASY to become legal, but make it moderately achievable. A lot of illegals DO want to become legal, but the system works against them.

I guess you can see why I'm torn on this topic. Like most of these pressing issues facing America today, there really is no easy answer.

Good note. Regarding your comment ".. But the system works against them", let me share my wife's experience obtaining US permanent residence.

First, a little bit of background: my wife and I married 10 years ago. At the time we married, my wife had dual Canadian and Russian citizenship, has an MS Engr, worked for a US-based company on a renewable work visa, was paid in US dollars and had a SSN.

We began the application for her permanent residency (the so-called, green card) in 2012 and it took a full 3 years before residency was granted. We did not utilize an immigration attorney, preferring, instead, to make the application ourself via the US government website.

We submitted roughly 6 inches of documentation - everything from tax returns, bank accounts, salary history, etc., etc. And this was only for permanent residency, not citizenship.

Admittedly, residency and citizenship should not be easy, but this re as far more onerous than I ever believed.

 

[JoeKing]

Good note. Regarding your comment ".. But the system works against them", let me share my wife's experience obtaining US permanent residence.

First, a little bit of background: my wife and I married 10 years ago. At the time we married, my wife had dual Canadian and Russian citizenship, has an MS Engr, worked for a US-based company on a renewable work visa, was paid in US dollars and had a SSN.

We began the application for her permanent residency (the so-called, green card) in 2012 and it took a full 3 years before residency was granted. We did not utilize an immigration attorney, preferring, instead, to make the application ourself via the US government website.

We submitted roughly 6 inches of documentation - everything from tax returns, bank accounts, salary history, etc., etc. And this was only for permanent residency, not citizenship.

Admittedly, residency and citizenship should not be easy, but this re as far more onerous than I ever believed.

My Russian wife and I had a similar experience. Six inches of documentation just for her permanent residency and then much more for her citizenship. This was pre-9/11, I bet it's much worse now.

 

[Doomsday]

It is not right to kick out millions of good, honest people who live in this country, but at the same time we can't have open borders and we must kick out people who commit crimes.

I would be for some sort of amnesty or work visa program, IF they would fix the border security issue so we aren't sitting here in 10 years having the same conversations.

I also believe that once amnesty is given there should be punishment for any businesses who hire people who aren't citizens or don't have work visas, and cut off all aid to non-citizens. This would remove the incentives for people to come here and live off the backs of hard working Americans.

We need to be humane, but also realistic.

 

[JoeKing]

It is not right to kick out millions of good, honest people who live in this country, but at the same time we can't have open borders and we must kick out people who commit crimes.

I would be for some sort of amnesty or work visa program, IF they would fix the border security issue so we aren't sitting here in 10 years having the same conversations.

I also believe that once amnesty is given there should be punishment for any businesses who hire people who aren't citizens or don't have work visas, and cut off all aid to non-citizens. This would remove the incentives for people to come here and live off the backs of hard working Americans.

We need to be humane, but also realistic.

I would deport everyone of them with the specific instruction to go to the back of the line. My wife immigrated the right way. It took a long time and was tedious and expensive. The immigration line jumpers must leave America and go to the end of the line.

 

[Montanalo]

My Russian wife and I had a similar experience. Six inches of documentation just for her permanent residency and then much more for her citizenship. This was pre-9/11, I bet it's much worse now.

During the interview process, the immigration officer asked a series of simple questions from our original application which my wife handled effortlessly (my wife is completely fluent in English and I am reasonably fluent in Russian - depending upon how much I have had to drink). The agent was quite taken-aback when, at the conclusion of the interview, he advised my wife that she could easily become a US citizen in 3 years (I believe) and she told him she had no intention of pursuing US citizenship.

At that point, I just knew the agent would find some reason to rescind the permanent residency. My wife went on to explain that, with family still in Russia, she did not want to renounce her Russian citizenship (which she would have to do to become a US citizen). Surprisingly, the agent was quite understanding

 

[Denim Chicken]

My Russian wife

Which website did you order her from?

 

[JoeKing]

Which website did you order her from?

Wow, you went there? That's messed up. We met while I was serving in the military in Europe.

 

[Doomsday]

I would deport everyone of them with the specific instruction to go to the back of the line. My wife immigrated the right way. It took a long time and was tedious and expensive. The immigration line jumpers must leave America and go to the end of the line.

I can relate to your sentiments but I just don't think it is realistic to think 11 million people can or should be deported. A lot of whom were brought here at a young age and have no ties to people in other countries.

 

[JoeKing]

I can relate to your sentiments but I just don't think it is realistic to think 11 million people can or should be deported. A lot of whom were brought here at a young age and have no ties to people in other countries.

Those that have no ties to people in other countries can be addressed on a case by case bases. The rest must go.

 

[Tabascocat]

Controlled immigration, strengthen borders, find an easier pathway to citizenship for those who abide by our laws and deport those with felonies. Sounds pretty simple.......

 

[Cowboys_22]

My son's mom came here in the back of a white lady's trunk when she was two months old. She got naturalized at age 16. Is about to get her Masters degree from Azusa Pacific (a Christian college). Got her bachelors from Cal State Fullerton.

Her mom and dad are successful (her dad created and runs Ace Overhead).

Her tías and tíos (aunts and uncles) are incredibly succesful. Like stupid successful in swap meets and re-selling cars. They all have homes in Glendora.

My son is half Mexican. I am full blooded Irish.

I love my son. I love my son's mom. When I was married I'd kill someone trying to deport her aunts and uncles.

I'd do life in prison.

My little boy deserves to see all of his family.

I'm not political. I'm for humanity. And I'm also for my family. My son's family is my family.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Wow, you went there? That's messed up. We met while I was serving in the military in Europe.

just joking man