Name that Quarterback

[jterrell]

Romo has been undoubtedly underrated.

He has numbers that fair favorably with every hall of famer out there after 3 years of starting games.

Yes, he has to get better in bad conditions by playing it more safe and he has to learn against really good defenses to be content with what they give him even if that is a 3 and out a few times in a row.

BUT.. the list of Hall of Fame QBs who hadn't won a playoff game after their 3rd starting season is a long one.

I compare Romo to Staubach in that he didn't get to play until he was a bit older and he is a mobile guy who will sling the rock. He is NEVER out of a game because he will throw for the TD. He has to learn not to throw for the loss as well but that's part of growing into the position.

But like Peyton Manning you ain't done it until you do it, so Romo will not shut up critics anymore than Wade will until the Lombardi gets hoisted.

 

[sonnyboy]

A few points. Romo and Elway were not at the same point in their careers, as has been stated earlier. Secondly, it's unfair to Romo to try and compare him to Elway, one of the all-time greats. As good as Romo ever hopes to be, it will still pale in comparison to what Elway was. He doesn't have the arm, and probably won't have the longevity and the super bowl success. Lastly, Romo is not a top 5 QB. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone to agree with you on that who isn't a complete homer. It's not an opinion that the vast majority of football fans are going to agree with you on, and I'm off the opinion that they would be right.

That said, I like Romo. I'm hoping his regression last year was due to his injury and that he puts in the work this offseason to improve. He has a long ways to go, especially with his decision making.

Simply put, all this is wrong. You do get brownie points for spelling and the fact that you had only one gramatical error in the last sentence.

Going overboard to not sound like a homer does not make you sound more knowledgable.

It's not my opinion that what you have written is wrong, it's fact. Since Romo began playing in mid 2006, he has the highest QB rating of any QB over that time.

When evaluating any QB, I give QB rating the highest weighting because it's more in his control than anything else.

Wins are great, post-season wins and Championships are even better. But those are team accomplishments.

The only fair thing to do when evaluating a QB is to watch him actually play and add up the stats.

When I watch him play, I see a top 5 QB, when I veiw his numbers I see the same.

If you polled 32 GM's to list the top 5 QB's playing right now, Romo would be on just about every list.

 

[EPL0c0]

A few points. Romo and Elway were not at the same point in their careers, as has been stated earlier. Secondly, it's unfair to Romo to try and compare him to Elway, one of the all-time greats. As good as Romo ever hopes to be, it will still pale in comparison to what Elway was. He doesn't have the arm, and probably won't have the longevity and the super bowl success. Lastly, Romo is not a top 5 QB. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone to agree with you on that who isn't a complete homer. It's not an opinion that the vast majority of football fans are going to agree with you on, and I'm off the opinion that they would be right.

That said, I like Romo. I'm hoping his regression last year was due to his injury and that he puts in the work this offseason to improve. He has a long ways to go, especially with his decision making.

I think his regression may have had some to do with Garrett's scheme. The biggest dip in stats that I noticed was his rushing yards (and avg rushing yds). His first two years as a starter, his feet got him out of trouble when the Oline couldn't hold its grown and helped extend plays. Whether it was by his choice or a combinatising on of choice + Garrett's scheme, his attemting to emulate Tom Brady in any way was not a good idea.

I'm w/ you, I do still see his potential and hope he can realize it. I am a bit disheartened by his seeming lack of fire (the whole: " if losing a sporting event is the worst thing that ever happens to me"). I might be dwelling too much on that but it was the absolute last thing I would have expected to hear from Romo after that Philly game.

He also has to do a better job securing the ball. 9 turnovers the last 4 games is unacceptable. Pointing to his QBrating from earlier in the season or to what he did the season before means little now. it's put up or shut up time for Romo (and the entire team).

 

[Beast_from_East]

Funny how all the Romo haters are now saying that stats mean jack, it is all about winning the big games (translation.....playoff games).


They fail to consider how many playoff games were blown by HOF QBs. Just to name a few.

1. Brett Farve
2. Peyton Manning
3. John Elway
4. Warren Moon
5. Jim Kelley
6. Dan Marino

These guys had their teams in the playoff almost on a yearly basis, but their teams choked dam near every year.

THESE SIX HOF QBs HAVE A TOTAL OF 4 SB RINGS COMBINED!!!!!

Farve.....1 ring
Peyton...1 ring
Elway....2 rings
Moon... .0 rings
Kelly.....0 rings
Marino...0 rings

 

[sonnyboy]

Funny how all the Romo haters are now saying that stats mean jack, it is all about winning the big games (translation.....playoff games).


They fail to consider how many playoff games were blown by HOF QBs. Just to name a few.

1. Brett Farve
2. Peyton Manning
3. John Elway
4. Warren Moon
5. Jim Kelley
6. Dan Marino

These guys had their teams in the playoff almost on a yearly basis, but their teams choked dam near every year.

THESE SIX HOF QBs HAVE A TOTAL OF 4 SB RINGS COMBINED!!!!!

Farve.....1 ring
Peyton...1 ring
Elway....2 rings
Moon... .0 rings
Kelly.....0 rings
Marino...0 rings

I hear you. Here's a question for both the Romo haters and those too strongly influenced by less than knowledgable mouth pieces.

What do you think of DeMarcus Ware?

If you watch him play, he looks like one of the very best pass rushers in football. His "stats" would certainly back up that claim.
Oh wait his team has a losing record in December for his career and not one play-off win. He's a bum!

 

[sonnyboy]

That's an interesting perception but it isn't true.

The Broncos had a very good defense with some outstanding players for most of Elway's career, but particularly when he got there. The last of the "Orange Crush" defense was still around. Guys like Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Simon Fletcher, Louis Wright, and later Steve Atwater, Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, Michael Dean Perry, Greg Kragen, Tyrone Braxton, Michael Brooks, and Alfred Williams. All Pro-Bowl caliber players.

He had the benefit of having a 1000+ yard rusher in 8 of his seasons including early on with Sammy Winder, then Bobby Hunter, and Gaston Green, before Terrell Davis finally arrived and Elway was at last able to "lift his team" over the hump and win a SB.

As for Receivers: He had TE Shannon Sharpe and WRs like Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Steve Watson, Anthony Miller, Vance Johnson, and Mark Jackson. Not exactly a bunch of scrubs considering the number they put up.

The Broncos had good teams when Elway was there, maybe not great teams every year, but they were pretty good. And they were certainly better than what Romo has had.

Throw in the coaching staffs under Dan Reeves and Mike Shannahan and there is really no comparison to what Romo has had to work with.

I know those teams and was kind of an Elway fan. Agree with most of what you had to say here, but the Bronco teams pre-Davis were not even close to the Cowboys teams under Romo.

 

[Dhragon]

Ahhh, but like Veruca Salt in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, they "want to win NOWWWWWWWW!"

32 football teams people. 1/32 = 3%. The average team should only win 1 Superbowl every 32 years. No matter how good your team is, it is really tough to win in this league. Great QBs have often had little or no success in winning the Superbowl.

Romo gives us a CHANCE. That's all you can ask for nowadays. Even the mighty Brady lost the Superbowl during the almost perfect season 2 years ago. If after 2-3 more years, Romo still hasn't won a single playoff game, THEN we can perhaps seriously question him.

But c'mon people, as hard as it is to win, how much harder is it to do so with a marshmallow for a HC ( which IMO still gives Romo an out since I've heard numerous sources claim that now that T.O. is gone, Romo has no excuses. Uh, Wade and maybe even Garrett are still pretty potent excuses IMO ).

At this point, I'm still happy with Romo. Hopefully most other fans are as well.

Ramble off.

 

[GalvestonCowboyFan]

So, which QB's are top 5? I'd say that Brady and P. Manning are the only two who are unescapably, inarguably a notch or more better than Romo at this point in their respective careers. Kurt Warner MIGHT have a claim at that distinction, too, if we were fair to him (and we have to assume that each of these QB's are playing in a system that fits them, as Warner has in Arizona). Obviously, because of age, anyone would rather have Romo than Warner on their team, but that's a different question. Who else should make the list... ? I'd put Brees there at no. 4, Romo at 5, Rivers at 6, Roethlisbergerat 7, and probably Aaron Rodgers at 8 (a healthy Schaub, McNabb, or even Eli Manning might deserve a mention for this spot). No one else is in the conversation that I can think of.

 

[Coy]

Simply put, all this is wrong. You do get brownie points for spelling and the fact that you had only one gramatical error in the last sentence.

Going overboard to not sound like a homer does not make you sound more knowledgable.

It's not my opinion that what you have written is wrong, it's fact. Since Romo began playing in mid 2006, he has the highest QB rating of any QB over that time.

When evaluating any QB, I give QB rating the highest weighting because it's more in his control than anything else.

Wins are great, post-season wins and Championships are even better. But those are team accomplishments.

The only fair thing to do when evaluating a QB is to watch him actually play and add up the stats.

When I watch him play, I see a top 5 QB, when I veiw his numbers I see the same.

If you polled 32 GM's to list the top 5 QB's playing right now, Romo would be on just about every list.

Let me start this off by saying I love Tony and like Jerry I wouldn’t trade him for anybody right now, now as a top 5 right now???? (this is not a question of who would you take over the next 5 years) Tony should be mentioned of course but it is not a given he is in the top 5 as off now.

No specific order excluding Brady and Peyton that don`t even enter the discussion.

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
McNaab
Brees
Warner
Romo
Cutler
Palmer
Rivers
Eli Manning


Here are 11 QB`s that also could deserve a mention in the top 5 right now.

 

[Coy]

So, which QB's are top 5? I'd say that Brady and P. Manning are the only two who are unescapably, inarguably a notch or more better than Romo at this point in their respective careers. Kurt Warner MIGHT have a claim at that distinction, too, if we were fair to him (and we have to assume that each of these QB's are playing in a system that fits them, as Warner has in Arizona). Obviously, because of age, anyone would rather have Romo than Warner on their team, but that's a different question. Who else should make the list... ? I'd put Brees there at no. 4, Romo at 5, Rivers at 6, Roethlisbergerat 7, and probably Aaron Rodgers at 8 (a healthy Schaub, McNabb, or even Eli Manning might deserve a mention for this spot). No one else is in the conversation that I can think of.

Common man, Roethlisberger at 7, that`s just not right, he is probably my most hated player in the NFL but I have to admit that this guy has it, 2 SB in 4 years, he might not have the best stats but under pressure and in big games aside from Brady and Manning (Payton of course) there`s no other QB I would rather have right now, before you discuss this, please just watch the last drive of the super bowl.

 

[CF74]

Let me start this off by saying I love Tony and like Jerry I wouldn’t trade him for anybody right now, now as a top 5 right now???? (this is not a question of who would you take over the next 5 years) Tony should be mentioned of course but it is not a given he is in the top 5 as off now.

No specific order excluding Brady and Peyton that don`t even enter the discussion.

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
McNaab
Brees
Warner
Romo
Cutler
Palmer
Rivers
Eli Manning

Here are 11 QB`s that also could deserve a mention in the top 5 right now.

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
McNaab
5) Romo
Warner
Cutler
Eli Manning
Rivers
Brees
Palmer

 

[skinsscalper]

That's an interesting perception but it isn't true.

The Broncos had a very good defense with some outstanding players for most of Elway's career, but particularly when he got there. The last of the "Orange Crush" defense was still around. Guys like Karl Mecklenberg, Tom Jackson, Dennis Smith, Rulon Jones, Simon Fletcher, Louis Wright, and later Steve Atwater, Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, Michael Dean Perry, Greg Kragen, Tyrone Braxton, Michael Brooks, and Alfred Williams. All Pro-Bowl caliber players.

He had the benefit of having a 1000+ yard rusher in 8 of his seasons including early on with Sammy Winder, then Bobby Hunter, and Gaston Green, before Terrell Davis finally arrived and Elway was at last able to "lift his team" over the hump and win a SB.

As for Receivers: He had TE Shannon Sharpe and WRs like Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Steve Watson, Anthony Miller, Vance Johnson, and Mark Jackson. Not exactly a bunch of scrubs considering the number they put up.

The Broncos had good teams when Elway was there, maybe not great teams every year, but they were pretty good. And they were certainly better than what Romo has had.

Throw in the coaching staffs under Dan Reeves and Mike Shannahan and there is really no comparison to what Romo has had to work with.

1st bolded statement) The first bolded part is laughable. 8 Seasons with a 1000+ yard rusher in a 17 year career?! Are you kidding me? Come on bro you gotta do better than that. Tell me, how many of those 8 1000+ rushing season did Terrell Davis log?

2nd bloded statement) Steve Watson? Anthony Miller? Really? How far do you think Romo would have taken those guys? Sharpe is a HOF TE. McCaffery was good, as was Smith. Romo had a HOF guy in T.O., a pretty good (HOF possibly) TE in Witten, and Glenn is no scrub either. Elway went to the Super Bowl with the former. Romo enjoyed 1st round exits.

3rd bolded statment) This is the most laughable part of all. Tell me again, stats guy, how many teams Elway played on that had 13 Pro Bowlers? It doesn't matter that they didn't play like Pro Bowlers. The "stats" say that they were of the leagues best.

And without Elway, that stellar cast that you just rambled off (The great Sammy Winder, and Gaston Green included) would have never even sniffed the Super Bowl. I have very high hopes for Romo. I really do. But as it stands, he doesn't hold a candle to Elway, or Staubach, or Aikman, or Young, or Manning. I hope he does, eventually. But as it stands, he's a step (a few, actually) below those guys. There's not a stat sheet in the world that will change that.

Timmy Smith set a Super Bowl record for rushing. Should we compare him to the likes of Gayle Sayers? Payton? Smith?

Stats sheets are worthless numbers that tell only a portion of the story. For now, Tony Romo is a hell of a lot closer to Danny White (other than White had actually won a play-off game by this time in his career) than he is Aikman or Elway. Debate it until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that, thus far, Romo is just the latest in a string of Cowboys QBs who haven't led his team to a playoff win.

I'm praying that changes this year. But until then, the Kool-Aid has run dry.

 

[TNCowboy]

Elway didn't have that in his first 3 seasons either. It wasn't until much later that he was able to 'will his team to a win". He was considered a choker for a long time.

Also, Elway had everything going for him when he came into the league. He had been coached from an early age with the best coaching available. He was heavily recruited coming out of high school but went to Stanford because his dad was the coach there. He went to a big time program with a "pro system". He was the top pick in the draft and forced the Colts to trade him because he didn't want to play for them. He had the laser arm, the size, the smarts, he had it all.

Romo was an undrafted FA from a small school with very little quality coaching and was ill prepared for the NFL. No one gave him a second thought or had any real expectations that he would be a success. He only got his chance because Deadslow sucked so badly, but he made the most of it, taking us to the playoffs and a near win against the Seahawks. Somehow he got blamed for that loss because he fumbled the snap but that FG wasn't likely to win it anyway as our defense was a joke that day.

You are right, comparing Romo to Elway isn't fair because Elway had it all and Romo had nothing and yet, Romo has completely out performed Elway at the same point in his career. How to explain that...

Elway established himself as one of the game's greatest clutch players in his fourth season, at the age of 26. Romo's about to turn 29 and has 5 seasons under his belt.

Elway took mediocre teams to the Super Bowl multiple times. Romo hasn't taken a talented team to even a single playoff win.

To try to compare stats is ludicrous. It's a different game now, and Elway didn't have a HOF-level TE and WR at his disposal.

I'm still high on Romo. When Jerry Jones said he wouldn't trade Romo for anyone, I believed him. I'm not sure I would either. But to compare him to an all-time great like Elway when he hasn't even won a Wild Card game is a joke.

 

[skinsscalper]

Elway established himself as one of the game's greatest clutch players in his fourth season, at the age of 26. Romo's about to turn 29 and has 5 seasons under his belt.

Elway took mediocre teams to the Super Bowl multiple times. Romo hasn't taken a talented team to even a single playoff win.

To try to compare stats is ludicrous. It's a different game now, and Elway didn't have a HOF-level TE and WR at his disposal.

I'm still high on Romo. When Jerry Jones said he wouldn't trade Romo for anyone, I believed him. I'm not sure I would either. But to compare him to an all-time great like Elway when he hasn't even won a Wild Card game is a joke.

 

[Coy]

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
McNaab
5) Romo
Warner
Cutler
Eli Manning
Rivers
Brees
Palmer

I understand what you’re saying but it is not set in stone, somebody else could have Romo at #9, that’s my point.

 

[skinsscalper]

Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
McNaab
5) Romo
Warner
Cutler
Eli Manning
Rivers
Brees
Palmer

Sorry bro, but there's no way I would put Romo above two QBs that are sportin' rings. Being above Brees, at this point is a little shaky, too.

 

[Cowboys22]

Romo was a top 5 QB. He made the probowl his first 2 years as a starting QB and put up ridiculous stats for someone with very little experience. His decline began with that trip to Mexico during the playoff bye week. In my opinion he has never been the same since he took all that heat for that trip. He came back from that trip and lost to NY. He followed up a 2nd straight heartbreaking playoff loss with an injury plagued controversy riddled season that saw his star lose alot of luster. It's up to him to get it back by dedicating himself to being better and leading the team to playoff wins. I think he has dropped out of the top 5 but only by a little. He is somewhere between 6 and 8 right now I think with every chance in the world to re-emerge as the best QB in the league behind Manning and Brady.

 

[Fletch]

I'm not ready to write Romo off in any way, shape, or form. However, the Kool-Aid sipping has officially come to an end. And we can compare stats all day long, the bottom line is "Can he get it done when it really matters?" Thus far he hasn't. That's not all on Romo. Many factors have contributed to the team's shortcomings.

The one thing that Elway had, that Romo has yet to display is to throw the team on his back and will his team to a win when it really counts. To this point their career stats are similar. The stat sheet is where the similarities end. John Elway led his team to 3 Super Bowls with a crap defense, middle of the road recieving corps, and a non-existent running game. Romo hasn't even sniffed that type of "it" yet.

John led his team to 4 Super Bowls during his tenure. Giants (loss) Commanders (blowout loss) Packers (close win) Falcons (blowout win)

The last two Super Bowls he had all the weapons. A very nice running game with Terrell Davis and a stout offensive line. Arguably the best TE to ever lace up the cleets in Shannon Sharpe, and a nice compliment at WR in Rod Smith. Not to mention that Super Bowl team that faced the Falcons had one of the best defensive teams in the league that year.

All the pieces were there for Elway to succeed in those last two Super Bowls.

 

[CF74]

John led his team to 4 Super Bowls during his tenure. Giants (loss) Commanders (blowout loss) Packers (close win) Falcons (blowout win)

5 Super Bowls, you forgot the loss to San Fran.

 

[THUMPER]

1st bolded statement) The first bolded part is laughable. 8 Seasons with a 1000+ yard rusher in a 17 year career?! Are you kidding me? Come on bro you gotta do better than that. Tell me, how many of those 8 1000+ rushing season did Terrell Davis log?

The 1000+ yard runners were in 1984, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1995-98. The 4 from 95-98 were Terrell Davis. The point is that Elway didn't win a thing on his own but ONLY when he had a solid running game (i.e Davis). They did make it to the SB in '86 & '87 without a 1000+ RB but one was a strike year and the other one ('86) is the only one where Elway really made a name for himself with two come from behind wins in the playoffs, including "The Drive" against the Browns. Needless to say, they lost badly to the Giants in the SB. In '87 they had just under 2000 yards rushing and were crushed by the Commanders in the SB.

2nd bloded statement) Steve Watson? Anthony Miller? Really? How far do you think Romo would have taken those guys? Sharpe is a HOF TE. McCaffery was good, as was Smith. Romo had a HOF guy in T.O., a pretty good (HOF possibly) TE in Witten, and Glenn is no scrub either. Elway went to the Super Bowl with the former. Romo enjoyed 1st round exits.

Both Watson and Miller were better than Crayton. Let's not forget that in 2007 Romo was the runner up to Brady for MVP and took this team to a 13-3 record! The loss to the Giants in the playoffs was not at all his fault so it's not like he had a great season then choked when it came down to it. Also, Glenn was out for almost all of that season anyway so you really can't count him.

Steve Watson was a multiple 1000+ yard receiver and made the Pro-Bowl in 1981, that was before Elway got there. Watson gained more yards in '83 & '84 than Owens did last year.

Miller was also a multiple 1000+ receiver and went to 5 Pro-Bowls. Don't judge him by what he did when he was in Dallas, he was considered one of the top WRs before that.

3rd bolded statment) This is the most laughable part of all. Tell me again, stats guy, how many teams Elway played on that had 13 Pro Bowlers? It doesn't matter that they didn't play like Pro Bowlers. The "stats" say that they were of the leagues best.

Yes we had 13 Pro-Bowlers in 2007 and Romo had a HUGE year as I said before. What's your point? That Romo didn't win the SB that year? As has already been pointed out the loss to the Giants was NOT Romo's fault.

The Broncos also went 13-3 in Elway's second season as a starter and they lost in the first round, just like the Cowboys did in 2007. See any similarities or are you still blinded by your agenda?

And without Elway, that stellar cast that you just rambled off (The great Sammy Winder, and Gaston Green included) would have never even sniffed the Super Bowl. I have very high hopes for Romo. I really do. But as it stands, he doesn't hold a candle to Elway, or Staubach, or Aikman, or Young, or Manning. I hope he does, eventually. But as it stands, he's a step (a few, actually) below those guys. There's not a stat sheet in the world that will change that.

Tell me, how did the Cowboys play without Romo this past season? How many times did Elway win a SB without Terrell Davis?

Also, you are forgetting what my post was about, comparing Romo with Elway's first 3 years, not his entire career. Is this too difficult a concept for you or something?

Timmy Smith set a Super Bowl record for rushing. Should we compare him to the likes of Gayle Sayers? Payton? Smith?

That's just silly and not at all what the post was about. You're not really that dumb are you? Nah, I didn't think so.

Stats sheets are worthless numbers that tell only a portion of the story. For now, Tony Romo is a hell of a lot closer to Danny White (other than White had actually won a play-off game by this time in his career) than he is Aikman or Elway. Debate it until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that, thus far, Romo is just the latest in a string of Cowboys QBs who haven't led his team to a playoff win.

No actually the stats are very accurate in this instance and the comparison is quite good with Elway's first 3 seasons. If you were not blinded by your agenda regarding Romo or your only being able to remember what Elway accomplished in his final two seasons, then you could perhaps see that.

I'm praying that changes this year. But until then, the Kool-Aid has run dry.

If you think that it is only Kool-Aid that makes someone believe that what Romo has done he has actually done... then I guess you should root for another team or something. The stats prove what he has accomplished and have proved my case in each of the points you brought up. All you have is opinion while I presented verifiable facts, yet you think I'm the one drinking the Kool-Aid.

Whatever dude.