Navy Yard shooting; 12 Dead and 4 wounded; 1 suspect dead

[Galian Beast]

He also has mental health history. Somebody screwed up with the clearance on this guy.

That is a lot of hindsight... Did he have a mental health history when he original got the clearance?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He probably never had to get it renewed... You say you understand the entire process, but you've shown otherwise.

In fact, he would have had to get it renewed in order to be able to join the IT team on that base, for HP or the partner. Clearances don't just go with the carrier once you leave the service or even an employer. They have to be re-authorized and sponsored. However, if the guy has had an arrest history and that was not checked out, then a good background check was not done. If you are arrested and you don't check into the details of the arrest, then that's a failure on the background check. If the guy has had issues as extensive as what has been reported and that was not uncovered, either by employer interviews or personal interviews, then that's a failure. If the guy has a history of mental instability and is being treated by the VA, then a background check could not have been done. He was discharged from the Navy because of his past conduct and the fact that he was arrested on a gun related incident. He was dischared in January of 2011. How do you not pull his clearance once he is discharged and further, how does that not come to light on a background check? When you are hired as a contract representative for HP or whomever, you actually have to go through two checks. One is with the Company (it is expensive to actually get a clearnace) and the other is from the Federal Government. I suspect that this is what this guy did. He got his clearance from HP or the HP partner. His clearance would have been pulled after his discharge.


Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. Lets go with that.

 

[Galian Beast]

In fact, he would have had to get it renewed in order to be able to join the IT team on that base, for HP or the partner. Clearances don't just go with the carrier once you leave the service or even an employer. They have to be re-authorized and sponsored. However, if the guy has had an arrest history and that was not checked out, then a good background check was not done. If you are arrested and you don't check into the details of the arrest, then that's a failure on the background check. If the guy has had issues as extensive as what has been reported and that was not uncovered, either by employer interviews or personal interviews, then that's a failure. If the guy has a history of mental instability and is being treated by the VA, then a background check could not have been done. He was discharged from the Navy because of his past conduct and the fact that he was arrested on a gun related incident. He was dischared in January of 2011. How do you not pull his clearance once he is discharged and further, how does that not come to light on a background check?

Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about. Lets go with that.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/security2_3.htm

He was arrested but not charged. Not being charged or convicted of a crime, it will likely not show up on a background check.

Being treated at the VA for PTSD isn't going to get your clearance revoked without incident.

He received a general discharge when he left the Navy.

It doesn't come to light on a background check because none of this is filed on a background check. A background check is generally only going to show you convictions or charges.

He got his security clearance probably based on the job he was going to do in the military. New investigations aren't going to be warranted just because he left the Navy. Not in the time frame we're looking at.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/security2_3.htm

He was arrested but not charged. Not being charged or convicted of a crime, it will likely not show up on a background check.

Being treated at the VA for PTSD isn't going to get your clearance revoked without incident.

He received a general discharge when he left the Navy.

It doesn't come to light on a background check because none of this is filed on a background check. A background check is generally only going to show you convictions or charges.

He got his security clearance probably based on the job he was going to do in the military. New investigations aren't going to be warranted just because he left the Navy. Not in the time frame we're looking at.

None of this is true. The Military discharged him based on past history. That means that they have a file on him and they know what he is. He was discharged, according to reports, because of his behavioral issues, almost 2 years ago. Does it seem likely to you that he would still have a valid clearance from the Navy? That is HIGHLY unlikely.

No, this clearance, I would bet hard money, was authorized and sponsored by HP. What does that mean? It means that HP and the DOD (DSS) would have had to have investigated and approved the clearance. Once this guys name showed up, it should have been flagged. His medical history should have been attached to his personnel file and so should his arrest record. Even if he is not convicted of a crime, an arrest report should have been generated and that should have been investigated. Because he was still enlisted in the Navy, a notification would have likely gone to his CO and probably JAG. However, because he was discharged specifically due to these past incidents, that should have flagged him.

No, there is no way that the proper background check was done here. If they say that it was, then the process has been changed so much in the last few months that I do not even recognize it as a process anymore.

No way was this done correctly.

 

[Hoofbite]

CNN was saying he went to the police describing voices he was hearing. Can't imagine why they'd let someone go who's describing what their site was.

Heard voices at 1 hotel so he went to another. Heard voices there, so he went to another. Heard voices there and said they were using microwaves to send vibrations into his body.

Clearly he's not thinking correctly and he's having hallucinations. I realize that they have to "present a threat" but who is 100% confident and is willing to say that they know what this guy would be doing after coming in and saying he's hearing things and suspects things like that?

 

[Galian Beast]

None of this is true. The Military discharged him based on past history. That means that they have a file on him and they know what he is. He was discharged, according to reports, because of his behavioral issues, almost 2 years ago. Does it seem likely to you that he would still have a valid clearance from the Navy? That is HIGHLY unlikely.

No, this clearance, I would bet hard money, was authorized and sponsored by HP. What does that mean? It means that HP and the DOD (DSS) would have had to have investigated and approved the clearance. Once this guys name showed up, it should have been flagged. His medical history should have been attached to his personnel file and so should his arrest record. Even if he is not convicted of a crime, an arrest report should have been generated and that should have been investigated. However, because he was discharged specifically due to these past incidents, that should have flagged him.

No, there is no way that the proper background check was done here. If they say that it was, then the process has been changed so much in the last few months that I do not even recognize it as a process anymore.

No way was this done correctly.

Again, he received a general discharge. Not Under other than honorable or dishonorable. Look it up.

He didn't even work directly for HP. You don't seem to be able to get your facts straight. He worked for a subcontractor called The Experts.

They did a background check on him, they said that only the parking violation came up. His investigation for his initial clearance would have been still valid. And renewed given his new job.

You have a complete misunderstanding on how personnel files work. In addition you have a complete misunderstanding how background checks work. In addition you have a complete misunderstanding on how the security clearance process works.

You're done.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Again, he received a general discharge. Not Under other than honorable or dishonorable. Look it up.

He didn't even work directly for HP. You don't seem to be able to get your facts straight. He worked for a subcontractor called The Experts.

They did a background check on him, they said that only the parking violation came up. His investigation for his initial clearance would have been still valid. And renewed given his new job.

You have a complete misunderstanding on how personnel files work. In addition you have a complete misunderstanding how background checks work. In addition you have a complete misunderstanding on how the security clearance process works.

You're done.

I'm done? Does that mean that I can no longer post? I hope it means that you no longer try to post on this issue.

Doesn't matter. He was discharged and because of that, his clearance (assuming he had one) was revoked. After almost two years, his former clearances would not allow him to just be re-instated. That's not how it works.

As for who he worked for, well, he worked for (I'm guessing) an HP Business Partner, who probably sub-contracts to HP to do the work. What does that mean? It means that they can not apply for a clearance directly because they are not the Prime on the contract. They would have to go through HP who would then have to submit a request to the Navy/DOD for a clearance. That's exactly how it works.

But yeah, like I said, lets just go with "I don't know what I'm talking about." That much easier right?

 

[Galian Beast]

I'm done? Does that mean that I can no longer post? I hope it means that you no longer try to post on this issue.

Doesn't matter. He was discharged and because of that, his clearance (assuming he had one) was revoked. After almost two years, his former clearances would not allow him to just be re-instated. That's not how it works.

But yeah, like I said, lets just go with "I don't know what I'm talking about." That much easier right?

You've shown that you don't know what you're talking about. You have no evidence to suggest his clearance was revoked. That is a fabrication.

The reality is that it almost certainly wasn't revoked, because he almost certainly couldn't get it back once it had been revoked, but keep telling yourself you know what you're talking about. You've been wrong about everything.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You've shown that you don't know what you're talking about. You have no evidence to suggest his clearance was revoked. That is a fabrication.

The reality is that it almost certainly wasn't revoked, because he almost certainly couldn't get it back once it had been revoked, but keep telling yourself you know what you're talking about. You've been wrong about everything.

Would have had to have been upon his discharge, unless he immediately went to work for a contractor who required his clearance and even then, those are temporary and they must be re-newed. You don't have the first idea of how this works do you?

However, I found this.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/09/16/background-details-on-supected-shooter-aaron-alexis/

According to a statement from Hewlett-Packard Co., Mr. Alexis was working for a company called “The Experts,” which H-P described as a subcontractor for an H-P contract on the Navy Marine Corps Intranet network. H-P said it was cooperating fully with law enforcement on the matter.

Mr. Alexis held a secret security clearance through his employer, The Experts, which had rehired him in July to work on a project at the Navy facility, according to company CEO Thomas Hoshko. “I don’t know if it was his first day on the job or what but we are trying to figure it out,” Mr. Hoshko said of Mr. Alexis. “We were just as shocked as anyone.” (Read more of the CEO’s comments.)

His clearance was issued and held by HP. It was not a hold over from his Navy days, if this report is accurate.

 

[Galian Beast]

Would have had to have been upon his discharge, unless he immediately went to work for a contractor who required his clearance and even then, those are temporary and they must be re-newed. You don't have the first idea of how this works do you?

However, I found this.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/09/16/background-details-on-supected-shooter-aaron-alexis/



His clearance was issued and held by HP. It was not a hold over from his Navy days, if this report is accurate.

Again please try to understand how this works.

1. You get investigated for a security clearance.
2. You get the security clearance.
3. A secret clearance investigation is good for 10 years.
4. The clearance becomes inactive upon leaving the service.
5. If you get a job that uses your clearance within 24 months, you can use your previous investigation.

He was discharged from the Navy in 2011. He started working with The Experts in 2012.

1. His investigation was still good.
2. He hadn't gone passed 24 months to require a new investigation.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Again please try to understand how this works.

1. You get investigated for a security clearance.

Actually, you are submitted for a clearance and a substantial fee is paid by your employer, in this case HP.

2. You get the security clearance.

Your name is submitted and upon receipt of candidate info a security check is supposed to be done by the DOD (DSS). You are asked to fill out the required documentation. From that point, a background check is initiated and the DSS checks you out.

3. A secret clearance investigation is good for 10 years.

Once you leave the Service, your clearance is revoked. You must be rechecked. A background check is not good for 10 years unless you are still in the Service. Once you leave the service, that no longer applies but, you do have a 2 year window in which to renew your clearance.

4. The clearance becomes inactive upon leaving the service.

If you are still clearable, IE, eligible for recertification. However, typically, that window is only available for approximately 2 years but, it requires recertification and additional background checks because, you are no longer a Fed or in the Service. You are now a Contractor.

5. If you get a job that uses your clearance within 24 months, you can use your previous investigation.

This is completely wrong. I would like to see the documentation that allows for this.

He was discharged from the Navy in 2011. He started working with The Experts in 2012.

He was discharged in January of 2011 but there is nothing that says he had a clearance at that time. He was busted for behavioral violations of regulations and eventually drummed out of the Navy. I would have to see some conformation of his clearance status at the time he was discharged. It is very likely, and even probably that his clearances were revoked prior to leaving the service. That is what should have happened.

1. His investigation was still good.

This is not the way it works when you are a Contractor.

2. He hadn't gone passed 24 months to require a new investigation.

It's required. Now, if you want to say that he passed the required check, that's a different thing all together and if that happened, then as I said earlier, the ball was dropped by whomever conducted the investigation. You can't just transfer clearances once you leave the Service.

If this person passed a security clearance, then whomever executed the clearance and actually approved it should be prosecuted.

 

[Galian Beast]

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/security2_3.htm

Impartial source, submitted for the record. Thanks for playing though.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/security2_3.htm

Impartial source, submitted for the record. Thanks for playing though.

This is what you are using as a source?

OK, fine. Show me where, in that document, it says that a clearance is transferable, from the service to a civilian job.

And just so we are clear, I just watched a news report that said his clearance was revoked and that he was recertified, using HP as the sponsor for his new credentials.


Thanks for playing huh? LOL..... what are you about 15?

 

[Galian Beast]

This is what you are using as a source?

OK, fine. Show me where, in that document, it says that a clearance is transferable, from the service to a civilian job.

And just so we are clear, I just watched a news report that said his clearance was revoked and that he was recertified, using HP as the sponsor for his new credentials.


Thanks for playing huh? LOL..... what are you about 15?

"
How long are Security Clearances valid?


A Periodic Reinvestigation (PR) is required every 5 years for a TOP SECRET Clearance, 10 years for a SECRET Clearance, or 15 years for a CONFIDENTIAL Clearance. However, civilian and military personnel of DOD can be randomly reinvestigated before they are due for a PR.

When a security clearance is inactivated (ie, when someone gets out of the military, or quits from their government civilian job or contractor job), it can be reactivated within 24 months, as long as the last background investigation falls within the above time-frame.

For example, if a military person has a Top Secret Clearance, and gets out of the military, and applies to work for a civilian contractor, the military member's clearance can be reactivated within 24 months of getting out of the military, as long as his last Top Secret Background investigation is less than five years old.

A security clearance is a valuable commodity outside of the military. This is because civilian companies who do classified work for DOD must bear the cost of security clearances for their employees, and clearance investigations can cost several thousands of dollars. Because of this, many DOD contractors give hiring preference to ex-military personnel with current clearances. However, you want to do your job-hunting right away, after separation. Once your clearance expires, you cannot simply request that DOD issue a new one, or conduct a Periodic Reinvestigation, simply to make your job-hunting prospects easier. To be issued a clearance, or to renew your clearance by DOD, your present duties/assignment, or pending duties/assignment must require such access."

 

[burmafrd]

as someone who is still IN civilian DOD service this is what I see RIGHT NOW.

I have right in our office now a former Army active duty vet - and his clearence was suspended as soon as he left the service.

When he applied for the DOD position as a civilian the process started all over again.

Which meant he had to fill out all the paperwork and the background check done on him showed a arrest for DUI that was dropped. So this BS that it takes a conviction for it to show is just that.

For the contractors the regs should be the same but I bet they aint.

So the initial background check should have shown the general discharge- which ALONE should have forced a halt to his interim clearence. You do not get a general discharge without SOMETHING being wrong.

Then the rest of the problems that would have shown up with a BI SHOULD have made sure he never was given any kind of clearence again.

The SYSTEM failed.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

"
How long are Security Clearances valid?


A Periodic Reinvestigation (PR) is required every 5 years for a TOP SECRET Clearance, 10 years for a SECRET Clearance, or 15 years for a CONFIDENTIAL Clearance. However, civilian and military personnel of DOD can be randomly reinvestigated before they are due for a PR.

When a security clearance is inactivated (ie, when someone gets out of the military, or quits from their government civilian job or contractor job), it can be reactivated within 24 months, as long as the last background investigation falls within the above time-frame.

For example, if a military person has a Top Secret Clearance, and gets out of the military, and applies to work for a civilian contractor, the military member's clearance can be reactivated within 24 months of getting out of the military, as long as his last Top Secret Background investigation is less than five years old.

A security clearance is a valuable commodity outside of the military. This is because civilian companies who do classified work for DOD must bear the cost of security clearances for their employees, and clearance investigations can cost several thousands of dollars. Because of this, many DOD contractors give hiring preference to ex-military personnel with current clearances. However, you want to do your job-hunting right away, after separation. Once your clearance expires, you cannot simply request that DOD issue a new one, or conduct a Periodic Reinvestigation, simply to make your job-hunting prospects easier. To be issued a clearance, or to renew your clearance by DOD, your present duties/assignment, or pending duties/assignment must require such access."

No where in this language does it say the Credentials transfer. Sorry

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

as someone who is still IN civilian DOD service this is what I see RIGHT NOW.

I have right in our office now a former Army active duty vet - and his clearence was suspended as soon as he left the service.

When he applied for the DOD position as a civilian the process started all over again.

Which meant he had to fill out all the paperwork and the background check done on him showed a arrest for DUI that was dropped. So this BS that it takes a conviction for it to show is just that.

For the contractors the regs should be the same but I bet they aint.

So the initial background check should have shown the general discharge- which ALONE should have forced a halt to his interim clearence. You do not get a general discharge without SOMETHING being wrong.

Then the rest of the problems that would have shown up with a BI SHOULD have made sure he never was given any kind of clearence again.

The SYSTEM failed.

Absolutely right. This is how it works, or how it should work. In this case, I suspect that the process was probably conveniently overlooked or simply not executed properly.

 

[Galian Beast]

as someone who is still IN civilian DOD service this is what I see RIGHT NOW.

I have right in our office now a former Army active duty vet - and his clearence was suspended as soon as he left the service.

When he applied for the DOD position as a civilian the process started all over again.

Which meant he had to fill out all the paperwork and the background check done on him showed a arrest for DUI that was dropped. So this BS that it takes a conviction for it to show is just that.

For the contractors the regs should be the same but I bet they aint.

So the initial background check should have shown the general discharge- which ALONE should have forced a halt to his interim clearence. You do not get a general discharge without SOMETHING being wrong.

Then the rest of the problems that would have shown up with a BI SHOULD have made sure he never was given any kind of clearence again.

The SYSTEM failed.

Ask him when what year he got his security clearance, and what year he started working for the DoD. Also ask him if he re interviewed for a new security clearance as opposed to just getting a background check.

I didn't say an arrest can't turn up in a background check, just that they don't always. It depends almost entirely on the agency who made the arrest.

The background check isn't going to show a general discharge. That is like saying that getting arrested should show up on your credit report. It isn't related. The question is whether or not they asked to see his DD214. And even then a general discharge isn't going to necessarily disqualify you from working anywhere.

You're confusing a lot of different systems that are all together completely unrelated to each other.

 

[Galian Beast]

No where in this language does it say the Credentials transfer. Sorry

For example, if a military person has a Top Secret Clearance, and gets out of the military, and applies to work for a civilian contractor, the military member's clearance can be reactivated within 24 months of getting out of the military, as long as his last Top Secret Background investigation is less than five years old.
I think you have some issues with comprehension.

 

[Galian Beast]

No where in this language does it say the Credentials transfer. Sorry

http://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf

http://www.military.com/veteran-job...rity-clearance.html?comp=1198882851265&rank=6

Yet another source.