New Charles Haley not needed

GhostOfPelluer

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If there is one thing all Dallas fans can agree on is that we all want to get back to the promised land. The Super Bowl. It's been more than 21 years since we've last won a title.

As the Boys have been in building mode the past few seasons there is a name that often comes up as a missing link for this current version. Charles Haley. We need a Charles Haley-type of pass rusher is what we hear. I don't want to completely dismiss the impact of a player like Charles Haley, but let's look at his statistical imprint on the 1992-1993 Cowboys.

In fact, I remember back in 1992 and 1993 and many folks were looking at Haley's addition as a bust. In 1992 he had 6 sacks. In the 1992 postseason he had one sack total. It was underrated veteran Jim Jeffcoat who actually led that team's pass rush with 10.5 sacks in the regular season and 2 sacks in the postseason. Tony Tolbert pitched in 8.5 sacks in the regular season and 2 sacks in the postseason.

1993 was a similar story. Haley had 4 sacks in the regular season (to be fair, he battled back trouble) and had 1.5 sacks in the postseason. Jeffcoat had 6 in the regular season and 2.5 in the postseason. Tolbert led the team with 7.5 sacks in the regular season and had 3 more in the postseason.

The moral of the story is that we don't necessarily have to have a Demarcus Ware type to find postseason success. If we can generate pressure in waves with a deep rotation of fresh pass rushers - like the 1992-93 Cowboys - we can still get to our end goal. (Taco is built very similar to Tolbert and Jeffcoat, BTW).

After all, the Cowboys had a grand total of 34 sacks in the regular season in 1993 (they had 44 in 1992).

Now, Haley blew up in 1994 and 1995 and returned to his double-digit sack ways. And you can't quantify his impact on the game plan and how opposing coaches had to always account for him. But I think we can get still get to where we want to be without one dynamic guy. We can do it with steady production from a multitude of players. All we have to do is look to our history for an example.
 

jwooten15

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Good post, OP. And good research.

You're right. I think as long as we can find a CONSISTENT pass rush -- a pass rush that regularly applies pressure, we will be just fine.

And with the numbers we're building on the DL, every guy should be able to go all-out every play since they're not expected to play the whole game.

We just can't give QBs 5+ seconds to make up their mind anymore. We all know how many times we've seen every DL member get stood up at the LOS and never even come close to pressuring the QB.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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If there is one thing all Dallas fans can agree on is that we all want to get back to the promised land. The Super Bowl. It's been more than 21 years since we've last won a title.

As the Boys have been in building mode the past few seasons there is a name that often comes up as a missing link for this current version. Charles Haley. We need a Charles Haley-type of pass rusher is what we hear. I don't want to completely dismiss the impact of a player like Charles Haley, but let's look at his statistical imprint on the 1992-1993 Cowboys.

In fact, I remember back in 1992 and 1993 and many folks were looking at Haley's addition as a bust. In 1992 he had 6 sacks. In the 1992 postseason he had one sack total. It was underrated veteran Jim Jeffcoat who actually led that team's pass rush with 10.5 sacks in the regular season and 2 sacks in the postseason. Tony Tolbert pitched in 8.5 sacks in the regular season and 2 sacks in the postseason.

1993 was a similar story. Haley had 4 sacks in the regular season (to be fair, he battled back trouble) and had 1.5 sacks in the postseason. Jeffcoat had 6 in the regular season and 2.5 in the postseason. Tolbert led the team with 7.5 sacks in the regular season and had 3 more in the postseason.

The moral of the story is that we don't necessarily have to have a Demarcus Ware type to find postseason success. If we can generate pressure in waves with a deep rotation of fresh pass rushers - like the 1992-93 Cowboys - we can still get to our end goal. (Taco is built very similar to Tolbert and Jeffcoat, BTW).

After all, the Cowboys had a grand total of 34 sacks in the regular season in 1993 (they had 44 in 1992).

Now, Haley blew up in 1994 and 1995 and returned to his double-digit sack ways. And you can't quantify his impact on the game plan and how opposing coaches had to always account for him. But I think we can get still get to where we want to be without one dynamic guy. We can do it with steady production from a multitude of players. All we have to do is look to our history for an example.

Can't say I agree with this. Teams feared Haley. They literally feared what he could do and as a result, he received doubles all the time. Because of that fear, it allowed other DLs to be singled up. We don't have a guy other teams fear. If you don't have that, then all you have are waves of guys who get blocked. We need an edge rusher IMO.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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In 92 and 93, we started Casillas next to Haley and he while a decent player couldn't draw help away from Haley. Teams doubled and shifted protection towards Haley often and Tolbert reaped the dividends of that arrangement.

On the second unit, Jeffcoat played next to the superior player to Casillas in my man Jimmie Jones.
97 was my favorite player as a kid. He made tons of plays coming off the bench while Casillas and Maryland always disappointed me.
 

GhostOfPelluer

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If you guys will read the original post, I'm not saying Haley wasn't good. I even mentioned that the stats don't account for his impact on the game plan. I'd take a player like him any day. But he really battled back trouble in 1993 and it affected his production. Somehow we were able to come up with a winning formula without it.
 

roughneck266

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Can't say I agree with this. Teams feared Haley. They literally feared what he could do and as a result, he received doubles all the time. Because of that fear, it allowed other DLs to be singled up. We don't have a guy other teams fear. If you don't have that, then all you have are waves of guys who get blocked. We need an edge rusher IMO.
Exactly right. When you have a Haley, either he will get sacks, or the other end will (if they are decent). Can't double everyone.
 

stilltheguru88

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we differ but thats what makes more discussion
We weren't prepared for Rodgers no huddle. With us not being prepared for that I'm going to assume he didn't prepare us for his hardcount either because Irving got caught with that. Then the nonstop 3 man rushes. When we pressed them we finally came back...........then 3 man rush to end the game. But yes, we'll agree to disagree. I've watched that game several times. The defense was good enough to win.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Yes. He was horrible from start to the end with that weak 3 man rush

DLaw and McClain were dinged and not giving you anything. Thornton was getting push but inconsistent in getting penetration. Jack Crawford was giving them nothing and got pancaked a few times in the first half. 98, Irving, and Mayowa were the only ones giving them anything.

At that point the question is do you want to play Heath, who had been outstanding in their dime package, or do you want to rush 4 and include Thornton. I think he did the best deployment available to him. Add Taco, Chido, and Lewis to that mix over Church, Carr, and Claiborne and I really like our chances.

As it was, Jones carried Cook to the sideline easily. He just lost sight of him and allowed him to run upfield. I'm ambivalent about that.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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We weren't prepared for Rodgers no huddle. With us not being prepared for that I'm going to assume he didn't prepare us for his hardcount either because Irving got caught with that. Then the nonstop 3 man rushes. When we pressed them we finally came back...........then 3 man rush to end the game. But yes, we'll agree to disagree. I've watched that game several times. The defense was good enough to win.

They gave up 34 points. That is not good enough for anything and I am sure they would tell you the same.
 
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