New York Post: Make teams pay

[CrazyCowboy]

Don't make the commish angry

 

[sacase]

Most of these guys are getting in trouble for misdemeanors. So your telling me you want to end a guys career over misdemeanors?

 

[Hostile]

Most of these guys are getting in trouble for misdemeanors. So your telling me you want to end a guys career over misdemeanors?

Sorry Sac, but you're wrong on this. Only 3 players have been sanctioned and all of them were over felony actions not misdemeanors. Repeated problems with felonies for all 3 I might add.

I still don't think the Bears, Bengals, or Titans should be sanctioned.

 

[Vintage]

I agree, and look again at the example I used with Darrell Russell. He was clearly not a risky pick yet he turned into one of the NFL's all time screw ups once he had money. He's not alone, other players get stupid too who were raised with impeccable moral standards.

Can the Raiders then say, "hey wait a minute, he was considered no risk when we took him."

There are simply too many loopholes and suppositions for that kind of system to ever be fairly applied. Fairly is the key word for me.

Plus, as I have said several times, why add more until what they are doing now fails? That is a Salem Witch Hunt or a book burning. It's overboard and not needed. Let the system work before you fix it.

Which is completely irrelevant.

I am not holding them accountable for a player failing once or maybe even twice. But continual failure.....yeah....they should be, since they are keeping him on the roster.

 

[Hostile]

By signing a player with KNOWN problems they ARE condoning it and contributing to it and should be punished for it. My punishment is strictly to the cap which they take a hit on anyway even under the current system but I would expand it to the full contract.

Under the current system, if a player commits crimes, is put on probation, and he is released by the team, just as the Bears did with Tank Johnson. That worked exactly as it should. Now if a team like the Raiders signs him and he screws up again then the Raiders should take a hit to their cap for doing that.

If a team continues to do it then the penalties should be harsher, resulting in fines to the owner (never going to happen though). Other than that they would just take a bigger hit to their cap as they have multiple dead contracts hitting it.

I don't agree with this Thump. I don't want to force a team to release a player to avoid sanctions. I want that to be their choice.

I also don't want a team who picks up a player to be sanctioned.

I just don't like this idea at all. If I am not in favor of it even if it is the Commanders, Eagles, and Giants being sanctioned then the chances are nothing is going to change my mind. I hate this idea.

 

[sacase]

Sorry Sac, but you're wrong on this. Only 3 players have been sanctioned and all of them were over felony actions not misdemeanors. Repeated problems with felonies for all 3 I might add.

I still don't think the Bears, Bengals, or Titans should be sanctioned.

I am not referring the players like Jones and Johnson, I am talking about Joe Blow who gets two or three misdemeanors and gets dropped because of it.

 

[Vintage]

I am not referring the players like Jones and Johnson, I am talking about Joe Blow who gets two or three misdemeanors and gets dropped because of it.

Then why are you worried about players with misdemeanors?

We aren't talking about them.

 

[Zaxor]

When the Cowboys were being mocked nightly on Leno and Letterman, when Jim Rome was calling us the Dallas Crackwagon, I never once believed it had anything to do with the Dallas Cowboys, or the DFW area.

I'd be a hypocrite if I held Cincinnati to a standard I won't hold my own team to.

Do I think teams should be more pro-active in disciplining their own players? You bet.

Do I think the teams should be disciplined for the actions of those players? No way. Not unless it is absolutely a chronic black eye on the team and the league and the team is refusing to handle it. The thing is though, with the new enforcement by the Commish and endorsment of the NFLPA I don't see that as ever being an issue.

In other words I don't believe the NFL needs to become Draconian in its measures and sanction the teams too. I can't see the Commish holding the Titans accountable for the actions of Pacman when he is already holding Pacman accountable for them himself.

Let me ask this, what would this accomplish? I'll answer it for you. A player gets an infraction and the team unwilling to risk losing draft picks will release him. You won't get more compliance by doing this. What you will get is more panic reactions by the teams wanting to avoid any possible sanction.

I think it's a horrible idea.

and again I agree my friend... but what I so poorly tried to relay in my first post is that if in a 9 month span you have 9 players from the same organization getting into trouble it has to also be considered an organizational problem and though punishment might not be in order a restructure and a reprioritization (I think I made this word up) must take place or perhaps fines are in order... not for a specific player but for perhaps a lack of setting the proper amount of counciling or something because like I said earlier something is being breed in cincy and doesn't seem to be disminishing but growing... Our own Cowboy teams had their problems but Jerry decided to emphasis counciling and education with Calvin Hill and Robert Newhouse he also made a concious effort to not draft problem children... it is these kinds of steps that should be taken place in Cincy if they aren't doing it than I think fines are probably appropriate...now if steps are being taken to address the problems than of course that should suffice.

 

[Hostile]

Which is completely irrelevant.

I am not holding them accountable for a player failing once or maybe even twice. But continual failure.....yeah....they should be, since they are keeping him on the roster.

Continual failure is being addressed now.

Chris Henry...suspended 8 games.

Tank Johnson...suspended 8 games.

Adam Jones...suspended 16 games.



Tank screwed up again (allegedly) and the Bears simply had enough. If The Bengals or Titans follow suit I think that is fine. I don't think the NFL needs to threaten teams to get this to work.

I would have hated it if this had been in place for Leon Lett's failures. I don't see why the Cowboys should be punished more than the loss of games for his suspensions.

It just is going too far. That is why I compare it to the Salem Witch Hunts or book burnings. It's adding hysteria, not solving anything.

 

[Hostile]

I am not referring the players like Jones and Johnson, I am talking about Joe Blow who gets two or three misdemeanors and gets dropped because of it.

That hasn't happened and it hasn't even been remotely suggested by anyone that I know of.

 

[onetrickpony]

No need to.

Who really cares if the 256th player in the draft is no longer drafted and Mr. Irrelevant ends up being #255.

It cost one guy who probably wouldn't have been drafted anyway if it wasn't for all those compensatory picks anyway....

Well, I agree that Mr Irrelevant is irrelevant, but the Player Association might not!

Just eliminating a pick moves the teams other picks up one place in the draft. I know that isn't much but picking 40th instead of 41st after losing the #9 pick seems like a small give back. If two other teams also lose 1st round draft picks now you are picking 38th.

Giving the pick to someone who does a better job of selecting high character players is sort of a carrot-&-stick by rewarding the guys who think character matters while hurting the ones who don't. It also fits with the NFL's ideas to push the draft to a prime time event by also making a big deal out of the lottery for the forfeited picks.

Anyway, it's just a thought. I doubt even Ironpants Goodell could push something like this through.

 

[sacase]

That hasn't happened and it hasn't even been remotely suggested by anyone that I know of.

It is exactly what vintage is talking about. If a player screw up and gets arrested then teams get fined. You can get arrested for a lot of misdemeanors.

The reason I put this forth is because typcially with most felonies the guys serve jail times, they are usually not let off for felonies.

Vintage, when you talk about guys getting in trouble and getting arrested I assume you are talking about all arrests not just felony arrests. If I am wrong I apologize, but they way you are sounding its as if you a player gets arrested twice them teams suffer.

 

[Vintage]

It is exactly what vintage is talking about.

No its not. Thanks for trying, though...

 

[sacase]

No its not. Thanks for trying, though...

So then you are talking about guys having mulitple felonies?

 

[onetrickpony]

I don't see how a team can be fairly sanctioned when a player does something they obviously do not condone.

I agree with that but if a team contiues to show a complete lack of respect for the league then league management has to step in. Anyone can pick one guy who turns out to be a bum. Nobody truely knows how money will effect someone. But the Bengals are the classic case in point. When the team has 9 guys arrested in 9 months it shows a pattern of disregard for the integrity of the league. They either don't care or were knowingly taking risky players again and again.

It's the repeat offenders that should be dealt with. Just as the players are given multiple chances in the substance abuse program, a team could be placed on probation pending additional problems showing up. When a pattern of abuse appears, then I have no problem with fines and lost picks or even cap cuts.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I wouldn't be in favor of this even if it was the Eagles, Giants, or Commanders who had player conduct issues.

I applaud the new focus to clean up the league. I think fining and sanctioning teams goes too far. Keep the blame squarely on the shoulders of the guilty.

I don't see how a team can be fairly sanctioned when a player does something they obviously do not condone. I don't believe that is possible because there is too much open to interpretation.

Let the current system succeed or fail before we "fix it further." I am not anxious for a repeat of the Salem Witch Hunts.

I get what you are saying and I agree; however I think in some way Goodell is trying to get the teams to muscle up on the players... maybe in some way goodell thinks that if the teams will be punished as well as the players, then the teams will then tell the players ad nauseum to not get into trouble.

The NFL teams' owners and for that matter fans don't care as much about a player acting up, it really is all about the bottom line. I think Goodell is smart enough to this degree to understand this and as such has made it so that the teams will be punished for player wrongdoings. Maybe then the teams will start to give a damn if they understand they will be punished accordingly as well. I know that sounds wierd but to me I think that is actually sound motivator to me.

 

[Hostile]

It is exactly what vintage is talking about. If a player screw up and gets arrested then teams get fined. You can get arrested for a lot of misdemeanors.

The reason I put this forth is because typcially with most felonies the guys serve jail times, they are usually not let off for felonies.

Vintage, when you talk about guys getting in trouble and getting arrested I assume you are talking about all arrests not just felony arrests. If I am wrong I apologize, but they way you are sounding its as if you a player gets arrested twice them teams suffer.

No, he isn't talking about misdemeanors. He is talking about felonies. Every player he has mentioned has been linked to felonies.

 

[Hostile]

I get what you are saying and I agree; however I think in some way Goodell is trying to get the teams to muscle up on the players... maybe in some way goodell thinks that if the teams will be punished as well as the players, then the teams will then tell the players ad nauseum to not get into trouble.

The NFL teams' owners and for that matter fans don't care as much about a player acting up, it really is all about the bottom line. I think Goodell is smart enough to this degree to understand this and as such has made it so that the teams will be punished for player wrongdoings. Maybe then the teams will start to give a damn if they understand they will be punished accordingly as well. I know that sounds wierd but to me I think that is actually sound motivator to me.

Teams do get fed up with players antics.

For example Hollywood Henderson. What crime was he accused of?

He isn't even an exception either. It happens all the time that teams get fed up with players. Terrell Owens and Phildelphia anyone? Keyshawn Johnson and Tampa Bay?

Someone could assure me that Dallas was exempt from all league sanctions and every other team would be targeted and I still wouldn't like this idea.

 

[Vintage]

Teams do get fed up with players antics.

For example Hollywood Henderson. What crime was he accused of?

He isn't even an exception either. It happens all the time that teams get fed up with players. Terrell Owens and Phildelphia anyone? Keyshawn Johnson and Tampa Bay?

Someone could assure me that Dallas was exempt from all league sanctions and every other team would be targeted and I still wouldn't like this idea.

Owens and Johnson didn't commit various felonies.

Antics aren't on the same level as what Goodell is doing....otherwise Owens should have been suspended for spitting on Hall during the Atlanta game.

 

[CowboyJeff]

The league and the players agreed to it, though. While no team has been disciplined for their player's actions, it can be done. And as with the discipline of the players, it's completely within Goodell's authority to impose.

I don’t know much about the collective bargaining agreement the owners and players ratified with the league, but to me this sanctioning seems silly. It's one thing to hold a team accountable if it's done on the field to another player, i.e. Haynesworth to Gurode. However, if find it curious that if a Brett Favre decides to shoot 3 people tomorrow while robbing a bank (with no prior disciplinary history), the Packers can lose draft picks and/or be fined?????? Whoever agreed to this rule either doesn’t care about their draft picks, or has too much money on their hands. I have no problem with the NFL suspending players, fining players, even kicking players out of the league for good. But unless you can prove the team encouraged and supported that criminal activity, then there should be no sanctions against that team whatsoever. Let's face it: many of these kids coming into the NFL don’t live in Beverly Hills. They are playing a sport because it's either all they can do, or it was their way out of a bad living situation. I think all the sanctioning should be done at the collegiate level before they get to the NFL. Why should NFL teams have to pay for the off-field mistakes of players and the colleges who let them get away with anything they want? Seems silly to me.