NFL.COM Charles Davis mock draft 5 4/21

[DFWJC]

Cleveland would be feeling pretty smart if it played out like this.....at on draft day.

 

[xwalker]

If he were available, I would seriously have to consider figuring out a way to do it. There is not one player in this draft, IMO, that is as good as he is defensively and that includes Clowney IMO. Of course, it is just my opinion.

You understand that you can't trade for a guy nearing the end of his contract, right? It doesn't matter if he is better than what you expect to get with the 16th pick.

Draft picks are the primary salary cap management tool in the modern NFL. Teams have to get production from draft picks during their initial contracts while they are cheap. The equation just does not work if you give up picks for a player that requires a huge contract. You either use the pick on player or use the cap space, but not both.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You understand that you can't trade for a guy nearing the end of his contract, right? It doesn't matter if he is better than what you expect to get with the 16th pick.

Draft picks are the primary salary cap management tool in the modern NFL. Teams have to get production from draft picks during their initial contracts while they are cheap. The equation just does not work if you give up picks for a player that requires a huge contract. You either use the pick on player or use the cap space, but not both.

Yes you can, if the contract is reworked and that does happen.

Generally, I agree with what you are saying but it does not apply to this team. The minute we signed the deal we did with Romo, all of that went out the window and you should know that. We have to win now IMO. The Romo deal was stupid beyond belief IMO, exactly for the reasons you mention above but it's done now. If you have a chance to get a difference maker, you have to do that IMO.

 

[visionary]

Pretty much how I feel about it too.

Donald will be plug and play, IMO. Barr will take a while to adjust.

I like Barr a good bit, honestly. I just like Donald so much and the 3-tech spot is so vital in Marinelli's scheme that Barr suffers in comparison. A good edge rusher is important to Marinelli too though, so I wouldn't be too upset with Barr if Rod thinks he is a good fit.

Here is the rub for me though... If you take Donald at 16 (or in a slight trade up to around 11) then there is Crichton in round 2 that I really like a whole lot. However, if you take Barr at 16, there honestly isn't going to be a DT in the 2nd that I like very much. If you could come out of the first two rounds with Donald and Crichton, then the DL would be greatly improved.

Basically, if we take Barr at 16, then I think the earliest we get a DT would be the 3rd... and that is too late IMO. Maybe the Cowboys like someone that I don't at DT though.

Dallas is drafting well enough now that I trust them to get the right guys, but I just think moving up a few spots to ensure Donald is the right thing to do.

that is exactly my thought procerss regarding DT and DE
that is why i would rather take DT in rd 1
though crichton is likely to be gone by 47

and for some reason i dont really like Barr

 

[AsthmaField]

that is exactly my thought procerss regarding DT and DE
that is why i would rather take DT in rd 1
though crichton is likely to be gone by 47

and for some reason i dont really like Barr

Yeah, I'm afraid you're correct about Crichton being gone by our second round pick. If he gets close though, like to 44 for instance, the team could make a move to go get him if they like him enough. In 2010 they made a slight move up in round 1 to get Dez and then in the 2nd, they made a small move up again to get Sean Lee. It happens sometimes and, IMO, is worth it if they like the player enough.

Now when we watch Dez and Lee, nobody is complaining about any traded pick.

I mean, you'd rather not... but if there is a player the team loves and then nobody even close to that guys quality, it is worth it.

I realize this isn't a popular opinion on this board, but if we came out of rounds 1 & 2 with Donald and Crichton, I'd be happy regardless.

 

[visionary]

Yeah, I'm afraid you're correct about Crichton being gone by our second round pick. If he gets close though, like to 44 for instance, the team could make a move to go get him if they like him enough. In 2010 they made a slight move up in round 1 to get Dez and then in the 2nd, they made a small move up again to get Sean Lee. It happens sometimes and, IMO, is worth it if they like the player enough.

Now when we watch Dez and Lee, nobody is complaining about any traded pick.

I mean, you'd rather not... but if there is a player the team loves and then nobody even close to that guys quality, it is worth it.

I realize this isn't a popular opinion on this board, but if we came out of rounds 1 & 2 with Donald and Crichton, I'd be happy regardless.

id be very happy if we got donald and crichton with our 1 and 2

 

[xwalker]

Yes you can, if the contract is reworked and that does happen.

Reworked? They have to give him a new contract, unless you want to trade away picks to have the player for 1 year.

Generally, I agree with what you are saying but it does not apply to this team. The minute we signed the deal we did with Romo, all of that went out the window and you should know that. We have to win now IMO. The Romo deal was stupid beyond belief IMO, exactly for the reasons you mention above but it's done now. If you have a chance to get a difference maker, you have to do that IMO.

That is the exact thought process that Jerry has used over the years. Good teams follow a long term strategy year in and year out. Trying to force the issue usually leads to disaster.

Romo just turned 34. His career might be over in the middle of the 2014 season or he might be playing well for another 4 years. Payton Manning is 38.

If Romo goes out for the season in 2014, then they can just tank, get a very high draft pick and take a QB in the top 10 which is where the majority of top NFL QBs are acquired.

The defense is not 1 player away from Super Bowl contention in 2014. The Cowboys, regardless of Romo's situation, need to build towards 2015. They're going to be in decent shape with the salary cap at this time next season and hopefully they resolve some of the defensive roster issues this season with young players like Wilcox, veterans like Melton and draft picks. They don't project to be losing anybody after the season due to age or contract issues. Everything is setting up for them to really narrow down the issues in 2014 and be in a position to finish off any roster problems with some free agents and 1 more draft. Marinelli should really be able to implement his defense in 2014. There was such chaos in 2013 with all of the injuries that it was impossible to really implement a new defense. Even if some of the street free agents had been more talented, they couldn't teach them the scheme is a couple of weeks, especially when the surrounding players were just learning it as well.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah, I'm afraid you're correct about Crichton being gone by our second round pick. If he gets close though, like to 44 for instance, the team could make a move to go get him if they like him enough. In 2010 they made a slight move up in round 1 to get Dez and then in the 2nd, they made a small move up again to get Sean Lee. It happens sometimes and, IMO, is worth it if they like the player enough.

Now when we watch Dez and Lee, nobody is complaining about any traded pick.

I mean, you'd rather not... but if there is a player the team loves and then nobody even close to that guys quality, it is worth it.

I realize this isn't a popular opinion on this board, but if we came out of rounds 1 & 2 with Donald and Crichton, I'd be happy regardless.

I would be happy with that as well but having said that, I would rather have Donald and Attaochu.

 

[AsthmaField]

id be very happy if we got donald and crichton with our 1 and 2

Donald, IMO, is going to be a fantastic 3-tech in a 43. I don't see how he wouldn't. Crichton reminds me of a young Michael Strahan in the way that he plays. I'm not saying that Crichton is going to be a hall of fame player, but he seems like a perfect strongside end in Marinelli's scheme.

Those two guys added to Melton would completely remake the DL. It would galvanize the entire defense, IMO.

 

[AsthmaField]

I would be happy with that as well but having said that, I would rather have Donald and Attaochu.

Well, I'd like that just as much... the only difference being that in one scenario you are getting a strongside end and in the other you are getting an end for the weakside.

Frankly, we need a weakside more probably because we have Crawford who they have high hopes for and Bass who they like a lot.

Selvie would probably play on running downs on the weakside and let Attaochu come in on passing downs.

I like both Attaochu and Crichton a lot. I do have to admit that I like Crichton a tad more though. I really like that guy and I see him as a very good pass rushing strongside end.

 

[AsthmaField]

If you get Barr in the first you don't have to take a 3 tech DT in the second. You could wait till the third or later and probably still get some one like Sutton (who I think you don't like) but even if for some reason You get a different 3 tech who is not as good as Donald you still have Melton at the spot. The melton signing helped out a good deal IMO you still need DTs and DEs but at the very least it might give you the option if you miss out on Donald.

For that reason and the possible up ceiling of Barr at DE is the reason I would be ok with the Barr pick even if I like donald a little more.

I think you have a better chance of getting a good 3 and 1 tech DT later in the draft than you do a good pass rushing DE.

Yeah, Melton makes a big difference in this situation. Without him we would be sure enough desperate for a 3-tech, but with him, we can go DT at 16 or in another direction.

You're correct in thinking that I don't like Sutton very much, but that doesn't mean I'm right about that. Maybe he turns into a good player in the pro's... I just don't think he will.

I do like Caraun Reid a whole lot, and I think he could play a lot for us as a rookie if you get him in the 3rd or 4th.

For me, it is really pretty simple. I like Barr a lot, and I like Jernigan a lot, and a few others that I'd be ok with at 16... but Donald is head and shoulders above every one else. I don't remember a 3-tech coming out of college that I like as much as him since probably Warren Sapp (who I loved at the time). I liked Suh a little more as an all-around DT, but as a pure 3-tech that fits in a Marinelli scheme... Donald is a textbook example.

I think a guy like Barr will be in next year's draft, and I think a guy like Jernigan will be in next year's draft. I think there will be a Martin and a Ford in just about every draft... but a guy like Donald, with his production, motor, physical skills and intangibles, just doesn't come along very often IMO.

He's perfect for Dallas in this scheme, with their current needs. He fits the bill in every way a player possible could. He will be worth whatever it will take to ensure they get him.

 

[Tex]

I want donald. I think that RIGHT NOW Barr is a better fit as a 3-4 OLB like Ware was for us not an every down DE. You are spending a 16 on a guy you are HOPING grows into being an every down player. Barr might be a great one! But he may not also. Donald would be a starter here for many years.

Tex

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Reworked? They have to give him a new contract, unless you want to trade away picks to have the player for 1 year.

All that has to happen is that the player and his agent have to agree to extend or rework in exchange for trade. It's not all that complicated.

That is the exact thought process that Jerry has used over the years. Good teams follow a long term strategy year in and year out. Trying to force the issue usually leads to disaster.

Right. We are not a good team and we haven't been for a long time. The Romo contract is proof of that IMO.

Romo just turned 34. His career might be over in the middle of the 2014 season or he might be playing well for another 4 years. Payton Manning is 38.

Romo is not Payton but lets say he was. We would have 4 seasons for the Cowboys to rebuild. Can they do it? I think it would take every bit of those 4 seasons maybe. If we are lucky, we might win 1 Super Bowl but I doubt that's the case. I am also doubtful that Romo is able to play another 4 years at a high level. Of course, that's just my opinion. If Romo were Payton, we would be on the hook for 17 Million this year and after that, we would be in a position to cut him in 2015 with only a 7 Million Cap Hit in dead money. As it is now, the soonest we could even think about cutting Tony (if it became necessary) would be 2017. Unfortunately, Tony is not Payton.

If Romo goes out for the season in 2014, then they can just tank, get a very high draft pick and take a QB in the top 10 which is where the majority of top NFL QBs are acquired.

Yes, if Tony goes out, we can tank but, it will cost us. We are on the hook for a great deal of money and how much sense does it make to spend that kind of money if you know you are rebuilding? I just don't see the value there. Smart teams don't do that IMO.

The defense is not 1 player away from Super Bowl contention in 2014. The Cowboys, regardless of Romo's situation, need to build towards 2015. They're going to be in decent shape with the salary cap at this time next season and hopefully they resolve some of the defensive roster issues this season with young players like Wilcox, veterans like Melton and draft picks. They don't project to be losing anybody after the season due to age or contract issues. Everything is setting up for them to really narrow down the issues in 2014 and be in a position to finish off any roster problems with some free agents and 1 more draft. Marinelli should really be able to implement his defense in 2014. There was such chaos in 2013 with all of the injuries that it was impossible to really implement a new defense. Even if some of the street free agents had been more talented, they couldn't teach them the scheme is a couple of weeks, especially when the surrounding players were just learning it as well.

No, but they could be three players away and that's entirely possible to achieve if you were able to sign a difference maker like Suh, draft a guy who could give you some pass rush from the edge and bring in a nice LB who could cover.

 

[xwalker]

All that has to happen is that the player and his agent have to agree to extend or rework in exchange for trade. It's not all that complicated.

Lets focus on this issue.

You don't seem to understand the general concept that I described. I think you're confused with fitting him under the 2014 cap and the bigger issue of him needing a new contract. They don't have to do anything with his current contract in order to fit it into the 2014 cap. They could just rework some other player's contract. They can free up about 20M by restructuring players on the current roster.

Regardless of whether it happens before or after the trade, Suh will require a huge contract. He's not going to agree to less money just because he is getting traded. If you signed him as a free agent, you would have to use a big chunk of future cap space to do it. It you trade for him, you have to give up the same future cap space plus the draft pick.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Lets focus on this issue.

You don't seem to understand the general concept that I described. I think you're confused with fitting him under the 2014 cap and the bigger issue of him needing a new contract. They don't have to do anything with his current contract in order to fit it into the 2014 cap. They could just rework some other player's contract. They can free up about 20M by restructuring players on the current roster.

Regardless of whether it happens before or after the trade, Suh will require a huge contract. He's not going to agree to less money just because he is getting traded. If you signed him as a free agent, you would have to use a big chunk of future cap space to do it. It you trade for him, you have to give up the same future cap space plus the draft pick.

No. To be honest, I'm not really concerned with cap at all, regardless of if it's 2014 or out years. I'm not confused and there is nothing that you are explaining that I don't understand. Get away from that notion. I simply do not believe it is important, relative to the situation we now find ourselves in. We screwed ourselves last year. Now we are forced to deal with it. It's the difference between buying into rebuild and trying to win a championship in the next few years. I was against the mega contract for Romo but it's done. Now, I'm all for bringing in players that will make a difference. I believe that with a player like Suh and a few nice picks, we could be a very good defense. I'm not of the opinion that our defense completely sucks. We need help in certain areas and a player like Suh would help out a great deal. Plus, he's young with years to go in the NFL. He's the kind of FA we should be spending big money on IMO.

 

[Bigdog]

I have Donald 1A and Barr 1B as far as who might be in our range and who I like. I like Donald a little more because Barr has a high ceiling but you are still asking a guy to go from a RB to LB to DE in three or so years and it might take him a little longer to get it all down.

Agree. I would not be upset if we get Barr. I think he will be a very good player. He is being compared to Ware which is a pretty high caliber person to be compare too. My first pick like everyone else would be Donald but I will take Barr as a consolation prize.

 

[xwalker]

No. To be honest, I'm not really concerned with cap at all, regardless of if it's 2014 or out years. I'm not confused and there is nothing that you are explaining that I don't understand. Get away from that notion. I simply do not believe it is important, relative to the situation we now find ourselves in. We screwed ourselves last year. Now we are forced to deal with it. It's the difference between buying into rebuild and trying to win a championship in the next few years. I was against the mega contract for Romo but it's done. Now, I'm all for bringing in players that will make a difference. I believe that with a player like Suh and a few nice picks, we could be a very good defense. I'm not of the opinion that our defense completely sucks. We need help in certain areas and a player like Suh would help out a great deal. Plus, he's young with years to go in the NFL. He's the kind of FA we should be spending big money on IMO.

I still don't think you understand the cap issues involved. You're paying double if you trade for a player AND give him a big contract. The "we're just a couple of players away" mentality has been the biggest problem with the Cowboys for several years. Now they are finally in the position to build something and wasting assets would not be a good idea.

To put it another way, you play the probabilities. The probability of winning in 2014 with or without Suh is low. They have too many issues to overcome. The probability is much higher that they can be contenders in 2015. Taking a 1 player away approach in 2014 would diminish the probability of winning in 2015.

They are going to have cap space to sign some top free agents in 2015. Suh is set to be a free agent then. The Cowboys could sign him for the same contract that they would have to give him if they traded for him and wanted to keep him but not have to give up any draft picks.

No team would give up draft picks for the right to pay DeMarcus Ware 12.25M in 2014 (not even a 7th). No team is going to give up a mid first round pick for the right to pay Suh 12.5M in 2014.

 

[starfrombirth]

Pretty much how I feel about it too.

Donald will be plug and play, IMO. Barr will take a while to adjust.

I like Barr a good bit, honestly. I just like Donald so much and the 3-tech spot is so vital in Marinelli's scheme that Barr suffers in comparison. A good edge rusher is important to Marinelli too though, so I wouldn't be too upset with Barr if Rod thinks he is a good fit.

Here is the rub for me though... If you take Donald at 16 (or in a slight trade up to around 11) then there is Crichton in round 2 that I really like a whole lot. However, if you take Barr at 16, there honestly isn't going to be a DT in the 2nd that I like very much. If you could come out of the first two rounds with Donald and Crichton, then the DL would be greatly improved.

Basically, if we take Barr at 16, then I think the earliest we get a DT would be the 3rd... and that is too late IMO. Maybe the Cowboys like someone that I don't at DT though.

Dallas is drafting well enough now that I trust them to get the right guys, but I just think moving up a few spots to ensure Donald is the right thing to do.

Justin ellis...... domonique easly... stephon tuitt

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I still don't think you understand the cap issues involved. You're paying double if you trade for a player AND give him a big contract. The "we're just a couple of players away" mentality has been the biggest problem with the Cowboys for several years. Now they are finally in the position to build something and wasting assets would not be a good idea.

To put it another way, you play the probabilities. The probability of winning in 2014 with or without Suh is low. They have too many issues to overcome. The probability is much higher that they can be contenders in 2015. Taking a 1 player away approach in 2014 would diminish the probability of winning in 2015.

They are going to have cap space to sign some top free agents in 2015. Suh is set to be a free agent then. The Cowboys could sign him for the same contract that they would have to give him if they traded for him and wanted to keep him but not have to give up any draft picks.

No team would give up draft picks for the right to pay DeMarcus Ware 12.25M in 2014 (not even a 7th). No team is going to give up a mid first round pick for the right to pay Suh 12.5M in 2014.

If it's easier for you to believe that I just am unable to comprehend, then that's OK with me. You roll with that but I'm telling you, that's not it.

 

[xwalker]

If it's easier for you to believe that I just am unable to comprehend, then that's OK with me. You roll with that but I'm telling you, that's not it.

I don't know that you can't comprehend it, just that you don't want to. You've already stated that you don't care about the cap.