NFLPA should have negotiated a late release penalty

[Galian Beast]

The ability for teams to keep players until the day before the season starts (or the end of training camp) is a huge advantage for the teams over the players.

That should have been a major negotiating point. They should have pushed for salaries to be guaranteed at the start of training camp.

 

[guag]

That's something I've always thought was unfair for the players as well. I don't normally keep up on NFL/NFLPA negotiations, but is this something they've discussed before?

Although guaranteeing their salaries at the start of training camp does seem a bit early. Maybe it should be guaranteed a couple weeks into camp, or at some halfway point in TC.

 

[Nightman]

That's why they negotiate signing bonuses and guaranteed money.

Look at Carr. He has been paid 33m over the last 3 years. If they cut him in late August and signs on somewhere for 2m that is his doing. He didn't make himself undroppable and no one else seems that excited to sign him.

If Peterson gets cut in late August he won't make 13m but he will have several bidders. He will also have the option of signing with who he chooses since he has also made a ton of money already. The most money may not be the deciding factor.

 

[Reality]

The ability for teams to keep players until the day before the season starts (or the end of training camp) is a huge advantage for the teams over the players.

That should have been a major negotiating point. They should have pushed for salaries to be guaranteed at the start of training camp.

So what would be the point of training camp rosters then? Just for adding rookies? How many veterans would get screwed out of jobs because teams would avoid the risk of signing someone during the off-season and having to pay them later when they're not the your roster.

If this was a rule, most teams would only keep players they know they will keep for the season. That may sound good, but any veteran player near the cut line would remain unemployed until the last minute and many wouldn't even get a call since many of those players have to convince the team they are with and other teams they are worth a roster spot once the season arrives. On top of that, the players would likely not have game conditioning and would be of little help for the first few games. Currently, the final roster cuts happen about 2 weeks before the season starts which is plenty of time to get a player in and get them studying the playbook.

 

[jrumann59]

Maybe prorate a players salary after 4 years of service, if after 4 years in the league you make it past the 1st cut down date its 25% the 2nd 50% and 3rd 75% and if you are cut right before the season starts 100% guaranteed.

 

[Nightman]

Maybe prorate a players salary after 4 years of service, if after 4 years in the league you make it past the 1st cut down date its 25% the 2nd 50% and 3rd 75% and if you are cut right before the season starts 100% guaranteed.

Why would they get paid for getting cut?

They immediately become FAs and if they have value, someone will sign them.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Having the salaries 100% guaranteed if thy play wee 1 was likely considered a huge win by the players, doubt the owners want to budge more in that direction

 

[Galian Beast]

So what would be the point of training camp rosters then? Just for adding rookies? How many veterans would get screwed out of jobs because teams would avoid the risk of signing someone during the off-season and having to pay them later when they're not the your roster.

If this was a rule, most teams would only keep players they know they will keep for the season. That may sound good, but any veteran player near the cut line would remain unemployed until the last minute and many wouldn't even get a call since many of those players have to convince the team they are with and other teams they are worth a roster spot once the season arrives. On top of that, the players would likely not have game conditioning and would be of little help for the first few games. Currently, the final roster cuts happen about 2 weeks before the season starts which is plenty of time to get a player in and get them studying the playbook.

No player with actual value would get screwed over. You're either going to be brought on to a team or you're not.

 

[AdamJT13]

The ability for teams to keep players until the day before the season starts (or the end of training camp) is a huge advantage for the teams over the players.

That should have been a major negotiating point. They should have pushed for salaries to be guaranteed at the start of training camp.

The NFLPA would not want that at all -- even if you mean only veteran players' salaries, and not every player's salary. Because of the salary cap, teams would have to cut a lot of players before training camp to avoid having them count against the cap, and the average salary would decline (because more players would have to fit under the cap). Teams would go into cap with far fewer players, which would wreak havoc on playing rotations and increase the fear of injury. Sorry, it's just a bad idea all the way around.

 

[Galian Beast]

The NFLPA would not want that at all -- even if you mean only veteran players' salaries, and not every player's salary. Because of the salary cap, teams would have to cut a lot of players before training camp to avoid having them count against the cap, and the average salary would decline (because more players would have to fit under the cap). Teams would go into cap with far fewer players, which would wreak havoc on playing rotations and increase the fear of injury. Sorry, it's just a bad idea all the way around.

Top 51 rule would still apply....

 

[irishline]

Top 51 rule would still apply....

Cutting someone with a guaranteed salary means their salary would still count against the cap... Top 51 rule doesn't matter when it is dead money.

That also would mean reduced salaries since players being cut after the start of camp would have their guaranteed salaries converted to dead money. Therefore teams would have more dead money and less money to spend on other players (that or they cut them before camp and go into camp with less than 90). Hence why Adam says salaries would drop.

Basically because their salaries become dead money upon cutting them once camp starts (which Top 51 has nothing to do with), using your scenario, everything Adam said would basically be the logical conclusion.

 

[Reality]

No player with actual value would get screwed over. You're either going to be brought on to a team or you're not.

Very few players with actual value are cut. The only exception are the players with huge contracts, but those players got the bulk of their money upfront.

You are thinking about this from the team-who-needs-players standpoint, not the players. The better players wouldn't mind teams cutting them, especially in the last 2 years of a contract because by then, they've got most of their money from that last contract and signing a new contract would give them a fresh signing bonus that would exceed their previous team's salary for the season.

Scandrick is a perfect example. He may love playing for the Cowboys, but he would be perfectly happy money-wise if they cut him before the season started, even at the last moment. That's not happening of course because he's one of our best defensive players, but he got his upfront money so he's on the tail-end of a contract, which means getting a new contract with anyone else would pay him more in 2015 than he will make with Dallas.

 

[Reality]

The NFLPA would not want that at all -- even if you mean only veteran players' salaries, and not every player's salary. Because of the salary cap, teams would have to cut a lot of players before training camp to avoid having them count against the cap, and the average salary would decline (because more players would have to fit under the cap). Teams would go into cap with far fewer players, which would wreak havoc on playing rotations and increase the fear of injury. Sorry, it's just a bad idea all the way around.

Exactly!

 

[AdamJT13]

Top 51 rule would still apply....

With guaranteed contracts at the start of training camp? What good would that do? Teams would know that the guarantees would put them over the cap once the season starts, so they'd cut the players before the contracts become guaranteed -- just like they do now, only sooner.

 

[speedkilz88]

That's something I've always thought was unfair for the players as well. I don't normally keep up on NFL/NFLPA negotiations, but is this something they've discussed before?

Although guaranteeing their salaries at the start of training camp does seem a bit early. Maybe it should be guaranteed a couple weeks into camp, or at some halfway point in TC.

Then a lot more vets would be phased out of the league.

 

[Hoofbite]

Most teams don't operate in a manner that it causes a problem. Jerry doesn't. Who's the last player to be held hostage by Jerry?

What do you do, tell these guys to not show up to anything before camp?

 

[Risen Star]

These poor unfortunate players.

 

[Galian Beast]

With guaranteed contracts at the start of training camp? What good would that do? Teams would know that the guarantees would put them over the cap once the season starts, so they'd cut the players before the contracts become guaranteed -- just like they do now, only sooner.

And by cutting them sooner, players we get an opportunity to find a new place, and actually go to training camp. And teams wouldn't be able to hold players hostage when they have no intention on playing them.

 

[AdamJT13]

And by cutting them sooner, players we get an opportunity to find a new place, and actually go to training camp.

Teams would not pick up borderline players whose contracts are automatically guaranteed unless they're stupid or extremely desperate. They'd wait until after the deadline, when their salaries are no longer guaranteed, just like they do now. Not having the contracts guaranteed just for going to training camp gives veteran players a chance to actually make a team.

 

[Galian Beast]

Teams would not pick up borderline players whose contracts are automatically guaranteed unless they're stupid or extremely desperate. They'd wait until after the deadline, when their salaries are no longer guaranteed, just like they do now. Not having the contracts guaranteed just for going to training camp gives veteran players a chance to actually make a team.

I'm not talking about borderline guys. I'm talking about legitimate players that teams are holding out hopes that a team will trade for. Teams use these players as trade bait and insurance in case of injuries and depleted depth.