No flame war intended - about QC. (Long)

[Hostile]

Every QB has flaws. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Every QB has gifts. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Greatness in QBs is balanced against what gifts they have and in what abundance versus what flaws they have and in what abundance.

Best example is Brett Favre. People point out how he throws into coverage too much and kills his own team. Yeah he does, but if you ignore everything else he does and focus on that you need a class in football appreciation. I've never seen a QB do more things to promote winning. You want to know why the analysts gush over him? It's because he never slacks off or stops trying. His weakness is trying too hard. I'd take that weakness. There's no substitute for effort. His gifts so far outweigh his flaws that he is a great QB.

The most underated gift in a QB is mental grasp of the game. I'm being dead serious when I say that.

Let's take Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. I was very outspoken when they were coming out. I called Leaf a flop waiting to happen and Manning a Hall of Famer waiting to happen. Most of my local football friends said I was out of my mind. Leaf was huge, he was tough, he had a canon for an arm, blah, blah, blah.

Read the scouting reports. His maturity level was a question mark. That right there sends up an immediate red flag for me, but so many people will gush on and on about this prototypical size, arm, etc.

I compare it to the movie Bull Durham and Nuke Laloosh. Million dollar arm, 5 cent head.

In Manning I saw something similar to my all time favorite QB, Roger Staubach. I saw a guy who looks for multiple ways to beat you rather than the same old song and dance.

In my opinion Bledsoe's biggest weakness is his footspeed. He does not drop back fast. He does not set up fast. He does not escape fast. In other words pressure up the middle is the best plan of attack.

His biggest strength is obvious to me, he can make any throw. Trust me, not every QB can. This is my gripe with Parcells this year. He is not using Bledsoe to his best value enough. Will Bledsoe kill you with mistakes like taking sacks and fumbles? Of course he will. In close games like we've been playing, that can really hurt. Turn him loose like we did against the Cardinals and the first Philly game and he won't kill you, he'll lead you to good wins. Is that a 100% ironclad guarantee? No, and it isn't with any player at any position ever.

 

[kartr]

Quincy Carter had just as bad of an offensive line then what Drew Bledsoe had, maybe even worst because Parcells has always been able to get the boys upfront to play well at least at the start of the season.

During the a good portion of the first half of the season, the line played pretty well for both Vinny Testeverde and Drew Bledsoe. They seem to digress after that.

Carter threw a decent deep ball and was exceptional at feeling the pressure. The biggest knock on Carter is that he struggled to read defenses, even when the Playbook was dumbed down. He also struggled with his accuracy. Another problem with Quincy was the fact that he never could "shrug off" an interceptions. It seemed like after he threw an interception, he could never really get over it.

With that said, Quincy Carter is still the only quarterback to quarterback a team to the Post Season since Aikman has retired. Yeah Yeah, it was Zimmer's defense, Parcells' genius etc etc, but the the aforementioned fact still remains to be true.

- Mike G.

I think Carter is greatly underrated, surprise, surprise. But, I watched him playing for the Jets last year. That was his fourth offense in 4 years, yet he was 2-1 as a Jet as well as 16-15 as a Cowboy, so he had a winning percentage for both teams. When people question his ability to read defenses despite having a wonderlic score in the high twenties i say that they're off base about his intelligence. Also, there is this, his toughness, both mental and physical. He was sacked 5 times on the road against Cleveland last year, yet after some offensive line adjustments, he was able to rally the team in the final minutes for a win against Garcia/Holcomb. In the Arizona Game, he was sacked and knocked out of the game, yet recovered enough to rally for the game winning touchdown pass as he did in Cleveland. He also rallied the team for come from behind wins against Carolina,Philly, the Giants among others as a Cowboy. His game is somewhat flawed, yet he has more positives than negatives and is certainly better than Mike McMahon, Joey Harrington and even Kerry Collins. He has a 2-1 record against Collins who has just been benched for Marcus Tuiosopo(sp) for ineffectiveness.
I still say that all those teams who passed on him who are struggling at the qb position deserve their fate and if we don't make the playoffs, that includes Dallas too.

 

[joseephuss]

Every QB has flaws. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Every QB has gifts. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Greatness in QBs is balanced against what gifts they have and in what abundance versus what flaws they have and in what abundance.

Best example is Brett Favre. People point out how he throws into coverage too much and kills his own team. Yeah he does, but if you ignore everything else he does and focus on that you need a class in football appreciation. I've never seen a QB do more things to promote winning. You want to know why the analysts gush over him? It's because he never slacks off or stops trying. His weakness is trying too hard. I'd take that weakness. There's no substitute for effort. His gifts so far outweigh his flaws that he is a great QB.

The most underated gift in a QB is mental grasp of the game. I'm being dead serious when I say that.

Let's take Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. I was very outspoken when they were coming out. I called Leaf a flop waiting to happen and Manning a Hall of Famer waiting to happen. Most of my local football friends said I was out of my mind. Leaf was huge, he was tough, he had a canon for an arm, blah, blah, blah.

Read the scouting reports. His maturity level was a question mark. That right there sends up an immediate red flag for me, but so many people will gush on and on about this prototypical size, arm, etc.

I compare it to the movie Bull Durham and Nuke Laloosh. Million dollar arm, 5 cent head.

In Manning I saw something similar to my all time favorite QB, Roger Staubach. I saw a guy who looks for multiple ways to beat you rather than the same old song and dance.

In my opinion Bledsoe's biggest weakness is his footspeed. He does not drop back fast. He does not set up fast. He does not escape fast. In other words pressure up the middle is the best plan of attack.

His biggest strength is obvious to me, he can make any throw. Trust me, not every QB can. This is my gripe with Parcells this year. He is not using Bledsoe to his best value enough. Will Bledsoe kill you with mistakes like taking sacks and fumbles? Of course he will. In close games like we've been playing, that can really hurt. Turn him loose like we did against the Cardinals and the first Philly game and he won't kill you, he'll lead you to good wins. Is that a 100% ironclad guarantee? No, and it isn't with any player at any position ever.

Great post.

I agree on the use of Bledsoe. You don't have to forsake max protection to make better use of his arm. They don't throw quick slants enough. Even this line can block long enough for that pattern and it is one that both Keyshawn and Witten are good at. I also would like to see more 10 yard out patterns to Key. Bledsoe has the arm and talent to throw slants and outs. Those patterns open up other things.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Davidyee, I think I agree with what you're saying. It's not so much about Quincy himself, but about how much an athletic QB can help an offense.

One thing I noticed at training camp in San Antonio a couple of years ago was how much quicker Quincy was compared to Hutch and Romo (and Stoerner). I'm not talking about running ability, but about how quickly he made his drops and even his handoffs. It seems like a minor thing, but it meant the RB got the ball a fraction earlier and the line had to hold their blocks a for little shorter time. I wasn't a Quincy fan by that point (I was at first), but I could see how a more athletic QB could be an advantage in helping the O run smoother.

 

[joseephuss]

I think Carter is greatly underrated, surprise, surprise. But, I watched him playing for the Jets last year. That was his fourth offense in 4 years, yet he was 2-1 as a Jet as well as 16-15 as a Cowboy, so he had a winning percentage for both teams. When people question his ability to read defenses despite having a wonderlic score in the high twenties i say that they're off base about his intelligence. Also, there is this, his toughness, both mental and physical. He was sacked 5 times on the road against Cleveland last year, yet after some offensive line adjustments, he was able to rally the team in the final minutes for a win against Garcia/Holcomb. In the Arizona Game, he was sacked and knocked out of the game, yet recovered enough to rally for the game winning touchdown pass as he did in Cleveland. He also rallied the team for come from behind wins against Carolina,Philly, the Giants among others as a Cowboy. His game is somewhat flawed, yet he has more positives than negatives and is certainly better than Mike McMahon, Joey Harrington and even Kerry Collins. He has a 2-1 record against Collins who has just been benched for Marcus Tuiosopo(sp) for ineffectiveness.
I still say that all those teams who passed on him who are struggling at the qb position deserve their fate and if we don't make the playoffs, that includes Dallas too.

Will you ever get over Quincy not being here? Serious question. When does it become about who is on the team now and not about a QB two years removed and who is not coming back?

I liked Quincy and was really hoping he would work out. I think he has overly criticized by some considering he was a young QB. Now the situation is changed. He is gone. He is also the primary reason he is gone. He didn't work hard enough and do his job. No, instead he pouted about bringing Vinny and Drew to the team.

If he had any confidence in himself he would still be here. I am not talking about false bravado where you spout off "I am the starting QB". I am talking about that quiet confidence where you know you are good and you don't have to announce it. You just go out and do your thing and know that will be good enough.

Sounds like you are rooting against Dallas to make the playoffs. Very nice.

 

[Hostile]

I think Carter is greatly underrated, surprise, surprise. But, I watched him playing for the Jets last year. That was his fourth offense in 4 years, yet he was 2-1 as a Jet as well as 16-15 as a Cowboy, so he had a winning percentage for both teams. When people question his ability to read defenses despite having a wonderlic score in the high twenties i say that they're off base about his intelligence. Also, there is this, his toughness, both mental and physical. He was sacked 5 times on the road against Cleveland last year, yet after some offensive line adjustments, he was able to rally the team in the final minutes for a win against Garcia/Holcomb. In the Arizona Game, he was sacked and knocked out of the game, yet recovered enough to rally for the game winning touchdown pass as he did in Cleveland. He also rallied the team for come from behind wins against Carolina,Philly, the Giants among others as a Cowboy. His game is somewhat flawed, yet he has more positives than negatives and is certainly better than Mike McMahon, Joey Harrington and even Kerry Collins. He has a 2-1 record against Collins who has just been benched for Marcus Tuiosopo(sp) for ineffectiveness.
I still say that all those teams who passed on him who are struggling at the qb position deserve their fate and if we don't make the playoffs, that includes Dallas too.

Intelligence has NOTHING whatsoever to do with being able to "read" a defense.

 

[kartr]

Every QB has flaws. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Every QB has gifts. Every walking, talking, breathing one of them.

Greatness in QBs is balanced against what gifts they have and in what abundance versus what flaws they have and in what abundance.

Best example is Brett Favre. People point out how he throws into coverage too much and kills his own team. Yeah he does, but if you ignore everything else he does and focus on that you need a class in football appreciation. I've never seen a QB do more things to promote winning. You want to know why the analysts gush over him? It's because he never slacks off or stops trying. His weakness is trying too hard. I'd take that weakness. There's no substitute for effort. His gifts so far outweigh his flaws that he is a great QB.

The most underated gift in a QB is mental grasp of the game. I'm being dead serious when I say that.

Let's take Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning. I was very outspoken when they were coming out. I called Leaf a flop waiting to happen and Manning a Hall of Famer waiting to happen. Most of my local football friends said I was out of my mind. Leaf was huge, he was tough, he had a canon for an arm, blah, blah, blah.

Read the scouting reports. His maturity level was a question mark. That right there sends up an immediate red flag for me, but so many people will gush on and on about this prototypical size, arm, etc.

I compare it to the movie Bull Durham and Nuke Laloosh. Million dollar arm, 5 cent head.

In Manning I saw something similar to my all time favorite QB, Roger Staubach. I saw a guy who looks for multiple ways to beat you rather than the same old song and dance.

In my opinion Bledsoe's biggest weakness is his footspeed. He does not drop back fast. He does not set up fast. He does not escape fast. In other words pressure up the middle is the best plan of attack.

His biggest strength is obvious to me, he can make any throw. Trust me, not every QB can. This is my gripe with Parcells this year. He is not using Bledsoe to his best value enough. Will Bledsoe kill you with mistakes like taking sacks and fumbles? Of course he will. In close games like we've been playing, that can really hurt. Turn him loose like we did against the Cardinals and the first Philly game and he won't kill you, he'll lead you to good wins. Is that a 100% ironclad guarantee? No, and it isn't with any player at any position ever.

The games he's looked good in were teams who defense' have played poorly this year over all. How can Parcells turn him loose when he makes as many or more poor decisions in this 13th year as Manning is making in his second or Carter in his 3rd years? In all five losses, he's made major game changing decisions that cost us games and he's not improving, he's getting worse and that's why the national media doesn't think much of our team.

They respect our winning tradition and they respect Parcells' reputation, they just don't respect Drew's ability to play consistently to his draft ranking or experience. He started out well enough, just as Carter and Vinny did the last two seasons, but has faded in the end;but Carter and Vinny didn't have the supporting cast that this team does. Gurode missed that one block and probably Pettitti and Tucker missed a couple too, but Bledsoe throwing into double coverage and hanging the ball in the air is all on him.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I think Carter is greatly underrated, surprise, surprise. But, I watched him playing for the Jets last year. That was his fourth offense in 4 years, yet he was 2-1 as a Jet as well as 16-15 as a Cowboy, so he had a winning percentage for both teams. When people question his ability to read defenses despite having a wonderlic score in the high twenties i say that they're off base about his intelligence. Also, there is this, his toughness, both mental and physical. He was sacked 5 times on the road against Cleveland last year, yet after some offensive line adjustments, he was able to rally the team in the final minutes for a win against Garcia/Holcomb. In the Arizona Game, he was sacked and knocked out of the game, yet recovered enough to rally for the game winning touchdown pass as he did in Cleveland. He also rallied the team for come from behind wins against Carolina,Philly, the Giants among others as a Cowboy. His game is somewhat flawed, yet he has more positives than negatives and is certainly better than Mike McMahon, Joey Harrington and even Kerry Collins. He has a 2-1 record against Collins who has just been benched for Marcus Tuiosopo(sp) for ineffectiveness.
I still say that all those teams who passed on him who are struggling at the qb position deserve their fate and if we don't make the playoffs, that includes Dallas too.

Oh no doubt Kartr.

Quincy had a fairly decent upside, I was just taking a picture of the guy in time, if you will.

There are a huge amount of quarterbacks that I would pass over to have Quincy on my squad.

When I criticize the guy, I am not saying these are things he could never ever improve on.

He needed to work on his accuracy, reading defenses and mental toughness which he has admitted he needs to work on.

If not for the drug problems, I fully believe he would be here right now or at least playing somewhere in the NFL.

And as I stated, if you do or you dont want to give credit to the guy, he is the only QB since Aikman to quarterback a playoff team, but yet is is probably the MOST dispised.

- Mike G.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Davidyee, I think I agree with what you're saying. It's not so much about Quincy himself, but about how much an athletic QB can help an offense.

One thing I noticed at training camp in San Antonio a couple of years ago was how much quicker Quincy was compared to Hutch and Romo (and Stoerner). I'm not talking about running ability, but about how quickly he made his drops and even his handoffs. It seems like a minor thing, but it meant the RB got the ball a fraction earlier and the line had to hold their blocks a for little shorter time. I wasn't a Quincy fan by that point (I was at first), but I could see how a more athletic QB could be an advantage in helping the O run smoother.

I have never loked at the running game in that respect, but could the time it takes to hand the ball off effect the running game maybe some of the resident exsperts can comment on this.

 

[joseephuss]

The games he's looked good in were teams who defense' have played poorly this year over all. How can Parcells turn him loose when he makes as many or more poor decisions in this 13th year as Manning is making in his second or Carter in his 3rd years? In all five losses, he's made major game changing decisions that cost us games and he's not improving, he's getting worse and that's why the national media doesn't think much of our team.

They respect our winning tradition and they respect Parcells' reputation, they just don't respect Drew's ability to play consistently to his draft ranking or experience. He started out well enough, just as Carter and Vinny did the last two seasons, but has faded in the end;but Carter and Vinny didn't have the supporting cast that this team does. Gurode missed that one block and probably Pettitti and Tucker missed a couple too, but Bledsoe throwing into double coverage and hanging the ball in the air is all on him.

Where did you take math classes? How does the number of Drew's bad decision equal or exceed the number of Quincy's in 2003? Quincy had 16 INTs after 12 games in 2003, Drew has 11(Vinny had 16).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Intelligence has NOTHING whatsoever to do with being able to "read" a defense.

This is correct. I'll take this even one further. It isn't the ability to read defenses. It's how quickly your brain can process what it sees and execute the proper physical mechanics to exploit it. There are a great many QBs who are intelligent. Physically gifted with leadership qualities. The key is how quickly a given person's brain process information. How quickly does the visual read of the safety sliding get from the conrnia to the cortex and then back out to singnal the throw. That's the key right there. You've heard of quick realease? Well, only part of it is mechanics. Most of it is being able to process info quickly. That's what the great ones can do.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Where did you take math classes? How does the number of Drew's bad decision equal or exceed the number of Quincy's in 2003? Quincy had 16 INTs after 12 games in 2003, Drew has 11(Vinny had 16).

Carter never threw an interception, those were "just as good as punts".

 

[Hostile]

The games he's looked good in were teams who defense' have played poorly this year over all. How can Parcells turn him loose when he makes as many or more poor decisions in this 13th year as Manning is making in his second or Carter in his 3rd years? In all five losses, he's made major game changing decisions that cost us games and he's not improving, he's getting worse and that's why the national media doesn't think much of our team.

They respect our winning tradition and they respect Parcells' reputation, they just don't respect Drew's ability to play consistently to his draft ranking or experience. He started out well enough, just as Carter and Vinny did the last two seasons, but has faded in the end;but Carter and Vinny didn't have the supporting cast that this team does. Gurode missed that one block and probably Pettitti and Tucker missed a couple too, but Bledsoe throwing into double coverage and hanging the ball in the air is all on him.

I would try and explain this to you but you have no concept of good or acceptable QB play and have shown no desire to learn. If you're serious I'll gladly help you figure it out but I'm so tired of your agenda nonsense that is not based on anything factual that frankly I consider this an invitation to waste my time.

 

[joseephuss]

I have never loked at the running game in that respect, but could the time it takes to hand the ball off effect the running game maybe some of the resident exsperts can comment on this.

Holes don't stay open that long in the NFL, especially with Dallas' line. A QB who is a little slow to hand off can minimize the amount of time a RB has to hit the hole. I don't think it matters on most plays, but on the stretch play that Dallas likes to run it does. That play has not been particularly effective this season. It is just a bad combination of bad blocking and a slow QB. Add in no burst in Julius by some observers. I think they need to scrap the play and pitch the ball to the running backs.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Oh no doubt Kartr.

Quincy had a fairly decent upside, I was just taking a picture of the guy in time, if you will.

There are a huge amount of quarterbacks that I would pass over to have Quincy on my squad.

When I criticize the guy, I am not saying these are things he could never ever improve on.

He needed to work on his accuracy, reading defenses and mental toughness which he has admitted he needs to work on.

If not for the drug problems, I fully believe he would be here right now or at least playing somewhere in the NFL.

And as I stated, if you do or you dont want to give credit to the guy, he is the only QB since Aikman to quarterback a playoff team, but yet is is probably the MOST dispised.

- Mike G.

I was a Q fan when he was in college and even thought he was worth the gamble when we drafted him but after that Texans game I started to question his mental toughness but i could never understand the level of hate that he inspired in cowboys fans which often made me feel compelled to take up for him to some degree especially when some said Hutch was a better QB it took about 2 games to realize his lack of pocket presence would be his downfall. Quincy could never have stood the pressure of being the QB of the Dallas Cowboys he was always to busy looking over his shoulder with that said the man had some talent which very few will give him credit for.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Holes don't stay open that long in the NFL, especially with Dallas' line. A QB who is a little slow to hand off can minimize the amount of time a RB has to hit the hole. I don't think it matters on most plays, but on the stretch play that Dallas likes to run it does. That play has not been particularly effective this season. It is just a bad combination of bad blocking and a slow QB. Add in no burst in Julius by some observers. I think they need to scrap the play and pitch the ball to the running backs.

Something Spags mentioned in one of his mailbags, was that Bledsoe may be trying to hard not to fumble that he's slow on the handing the ball off to the RB. Not sure how accurate that is, but he's basically saying Bledsoe is overcompensating and therefore causing the play to develop late.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I was a Q fan when he was in college and even thought he was worth the gamble when we drafted him but after that Texans game I started to question his mental toughness but i could never understand the level of hate that he inspired in cowboys fans which often made me feel compelled to take up for him to some degree especially when some said Hutch was a better QB it took about 2 games to realize his lack of pocket presence would be his downfall. Quincy could never have stood the pressure of being the QB of the Dallas Cowboys he was always to busy looking over his shoulder with that said the man had some talent which very few will give him credit for.

Interesting synopsis.

I fully beleive that a good number of Cowboys fans were saying Hutch was better because he was "the alternative". You ever heard the term "The most popular player on the team is the Backup QB"?

They quickly got off that bandwagon when Hutch sucked it up just like most have prior to Aikman.

I dont think Quincy had the mental toughness to handle the pressures of being the leader of a NFL team, especially one that is in the spotlight so much as this squad.

Quincy Carter was the prime example of someone that really needed to be sat down and let him observe and take in everything that is happening around him.

I think he had a drug relapse because he had so much damn pressure on him which is the life of an NFL player in general. Every year they were bringing in another Quarterback and paying him more money and Quincy just went into a shell.

Remember the last time he talk to the press at TC, he was saying "I am the starting quarterback, there is no competition", you could tell he was really in trouble.

I really dont know the guys history, I dont know what kind of DEMONS he may have had or have in his life, but I think mentally, he is lacking and would really need someone he respects around him constantly playing the "good angel on his shoulders" when he digresses mentally.

I was reading an article about a player for the Jets earlier this year but the players name escapes me, maybe someone here can help me out. Well, this guy was not a star on the team, but worked hard and played hard. He was in a horrible motorcycle accident. Long story short, Herm Edwards showed what he really is, which is a kind hearted man, and brought this guy back instead of cutting him and saving money.

I always wondered why Herm Edwards didnt bring Carter back. A Jets fan on a Madden Messageboard told me that he had been told that Carter had had another relapse. I am not sure if that is true or not.

I just wish the guy luck. But to be honest with you, alot of Cowboys fans from the beginning thought the Cowboys reached heavily when they chose him in the 2nd round and of course you have other fans that just didnt like him no matter what he did.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Will you ever get over Quincy not being here? Serious question. When does it become about who is on the team now and not about a QB two years removed and who is not coming back?

I liked Quincy and was really hoping he would work out. I think he has overly criticized by some considering he was a young QB. Now the situation is changed. He is gone. He is also the primary reason he is gone. He didn't work hard enough and do his job. No, instead he pouted about bringing Vinny and Drew to the team.

If he had any confidence in himself he would still be here. I am not talking about false bravado where you spout off "I am the starting QB". I am talking about that quiet confidence where you know you are good and you don't have to announce it. You just go out and do your thing and know that will be good enough.

Sounds like you are rooting against Dallas to make the playoffs. Very nice.

That is Exactly how I looked at the situation I think Bill really beleived in Q to a fault. I feel that it was his job to lose and for what he had done to that point that was all he could ask for, I think if he had not been complaing about Testeverde and Henson he would not have been cut because of the drug thing but with his fragile ego he was always going to turn to drugs as a crutch which made him not dependable.

 

[WilmingtonHeel]

I liked Carter too. But he didn't handle himself well ( off the field) Alot of you are right he should have sat a couple of years IMO he'd would've been our starter now and the rate he was progressing on the field (like 2003) we'd might have had something.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I liked Carter too. But he didn't handle himself well ( off the field) Alot of you are right he should have sat a couple of years IMO he'd would've been our starter now and the rate he was progressing on the field (like 2003) we'd might have had something.

Sadly I think your right but in the end he has no one to blame but himself.