CFZ No guts no glory

[Flamma]

I do not have the patience or desire or time to constantly engage in trolling/bickering with the an opposing viewpoint if there is zero chance in me or them altering viewpoints because of the argument.

I do like to see other opinions and perspectives, which is why I even spend time on the board. So please share your thoughts on the following if you can manage (apologies for a long post).

My general belief is that the Cowboys’ front office main goal as a franchise for the past 3 decades has been to ensure they do not give a “get fired” effort. I’ve worked alongside literally several hundred different people throughout my career and realize the majority out there put an effort that I would categorize as middle of the road effort when compared to the whole spectrum of workers.

Going to the extreme and working as though tomorrow could be your last is usually reserved for a business owner that really needs/desires the business to excel financially. Or for someone desperate to move forward aggressively in their career path. Neither of these profiles fit for the Jones’ family for the last 3 decades.

The big motivator for them is to not finish at the bottom of the standings routinely. That would be potentially damaging to TV ratings and general interest in the squad (which the media, league execs, and team ownership value more than big wins). The current Cowboys’ model is to ensure middle of the road to slightly above average performance.

This is the point where so many on here get into arguments about the squad. Fans are not the ones that must put in the actual extreme work to turn mediocrity into greatness. They are also not the ones risking millions of dollars because of poor or radical decisions.

I am in the category of fans that are okay with awful results in the short term for a better chance at long term great success. I understand that you cannot guarantee long term success with ANY method. I have very little interest in the squad in the current version though. This keep your nose above water at all costs approach is like watching a body slowly decay.

In my opinion, that is how the decision to extend Dak is viewed by many fans. They understand he is not the worst option (even from the staunchest trolls). They probably are like me in that the decision was essentially a front office firm decision to keep the team’s nose above water for the foreseeable future. Without him, the team runs the risk of finishing last place in the division (perhaps for several years). I do not care about that risk (as a fan). I only care about the team putting together a squad that can make a conference championship game 1-2 times a decade and at least one Super Bowl appearance in that time frame (as a fan).

Would you rather make the playoffs 6 times in one decade with 9 out of 10 years finishing above last place (no conference championship games) OR make the playoffs in only 3 years with one super bowl appearance and 1 other conference championship game (but 5 last place finishes)? I’m for the latter option if you cannot tell.

A lot of good points. I highlighted a few of them. Primarily the one's I've made in the past. It's like the argument people here awhile back about should Washington have kept Kirk Cousins? There were several on both sides.

Do you want to possibly be crap for an unforeseen number of seasons until you find someone worth paying? Or let a decent QB extort you and you'll stay middle to good. Once you commit to the decent QB, you're locked in. Once you take that "who else are we going to get" attitude, you're the Minnesota Vikings for as long as you want to pay that QB. Enjoy.

The only part I think you're a bit off on is the 3 decades part. It's only been since around 2013 or 2014. They changed their entire off season approach to what we see now. One that prevents terrible years and keeps the Cowboys mediocre to above average every year. Keep them being talked about, relevant.

 

[xwalker]

Free Agency is not all about wildcatting. You can add one or two very good players via free agency if they are substantially better options than what you currently have on the roster.

Being brutally honest about players and coaches currently on the roster and their potential longevity would be a start as would being adverse to massive risks in the second round instead of taking a player that is almost universally thought of as a solid potential starter with fewer injury and off field issues.

You mentioned 2016 specifically though my reference would be a consolidated view of the past 26 years. They should have fired Jason Garrett following 2015 (even sooner). There were several players that had higher draft value (by virtue of playing position) than Zeke. Jalen Ramsey or Deforest Bukner in the first round make way more sense. Chris Jones or Jarran Reed or Derrick Henry or even Myles Jack instead of a potentially permanently crippled Jaylon Smith (that they stupidly extended after one year of promise). I liked every single option better than who they took at the time (and I am a couch scout). Never underestimate Jerry when it’s about marketing and reclamation projects.

After 2017, the team should have had serious doubt as to what Dak’s career trajectory and how much he adds to the QB position when not given a very powerful running game to play-action off of. Also, in the following years how much he depended on his own rushing ability to deliver big plays. Could he develop into a traditional pocket passer which would allow him to have more longevity? The answer thus far is yes-if he is not facing a top 5-10 healthy defense-and an emphatic no if he is.

You would like to be able to successfully flip team assets into future round 1-3 draft picks if you are not 100 percent convinced that they are core players capable of delivering a NFCCG or SB. The team has basically avoided all big free agent contracts since Brandon Carr. Either the team has failed in developing or drafting good enough players to accomplish it or failed to successfully negotiate good trades, a Jones responsibility.

The team still had major problems in evaluating its own talent since 2016. Not every draft was a major success and the free agency strategy has been employed since they cut ties with Demarcus Ware if not before. When the current strategy finally yields a NFCCG or SB you can be sure they and you will gloat like they always knew it would work. Until then, my point rests its case.

I'm responding to this for other people to see because I know that you don't have the ability to understand it.
- Your posts are based on fan emotion, not on reality.

Fans post about free agency based on their "feeling" about how it works.
- In reality the probabilities of free agents being worth the investment is small.
- If free agency was all that, then why didn't the Raiders just sign a free agent instead of trading multiple picks for Davante Adams.
- Same question with the Dolphins and Tyreek Hill.

More 'brutally honest' evaluations of players is exactly what they've started doing.
- 15 years ago Jerry would have kept Dez, Romo and paid Witten some type of mega contract to come back.

The Zeke argument is silly.
- The Cowboys are not the only team that had Zeke above Ramsey on their draft boards.
- Ramsey had a knee issue from a high school injury that some teams thought might be degenerative.
- He also had character issues to the point that at least one team took him off their draft board.
- There was no guarantee that Derrick Henry would be available in the 2nd.
- You are basing your opinions on what we know now, not the information that was available at the time.

- Myles Jack was definitely considered to have degenerative knee problems.
- Jaylon's Doctor thought he would fully recover.
- If both were healthy, Jaylon was universally rated higher than Jack based on college game footage.
- You complain about the risk of drafting Jaylon and then turn around and want to draft Jack.
- Multiple teams had removed Jack from their draft boards because of uncertainty about his knees.

• Dak
  • In 2021, the Cowboys were:
  • #1 in points scored
  • #1 in total yards
  • #2 in passing yards
  • #3 in passing TDs
  • #4 in passing 1st downs
  • The Cowboys problems in 2021 were from penalties, not because of Dak.

Fans overrate the value of veteran players to trade for draft picks every year.
- Only a select few players return premium picks in trades.
- Seattle tried to trade multi-time All Pro Earl Thomas a few years ago but could not get the 3rd round pick they wanted.
- Other teams would not just let Cleveland get Amari Cooper for a late round pick if any team thought that was a "steal".
- Regardless of what the Cowboys did, other teams would trade for him if they thought he had value.
- Teams didn't trade for him because he had a 20M salary and half as many catches as Davante Adams in about the same number of snaps.

Washington often 'won' free agency a decade ago with nothing to show for it.

• Which of their own talent did they fail to evaluate since 2016?
• Zeke?
  • At the time he signed the new contract, he had 4048 yards rushing in 3 seasons with a 4.7 yards/carry average.
  • His 1st downs per snaps played was the highest the season before he signed the new contract.
  • He also had 1200 yards receiving on 135 receptions at that point in time.
• Dak
  • Only moronic fans believe that other teams would have dumped Dak instead of giving him a new contract.
  • QBs are too difficult to find. Teams don't dump legit starters (Ex coaches & players in the media all rate Dak at a top 12 QB or better).

You want it both ways.
- You want to spend more but you also don't want to cut players like DWare.
- They had to cut DWare because they spent too much in free agency on lesser players.

• Summary:
  • Many fans like yourself want to compare team management to the concept of perfection.
  • In reality all teams have failed draft picks and make imperfect decisions.

 

[Corso]

At worst, I think their fear of losing money clouds their judgement.

Which is weird since they keep gaining more money while they lose decade after decade.
Has any financial advisor walked up to them and posited the question:

How much more do you think you would make if you started winning Super Bowls again?

 

[Blitzen]

I'm responding to this for other people to see because I know that you don't have the ability to understand it.
- Your posts are based on fan emotion, not on reality.

Fans post about free agency based on their "feeling" about how it works.
- In reality the probabilities of free agents being worth the investment is small.
- If free agency was all that, then why didn't the Raiders just sign a free agent instead of trading multiple picks for Davante Adams.
- Same question with the Dolphins and Tyreek Hill.

More 'brutally honest' evaluations of players is exactly what they've started doing.
- 15 years ago Jerry would have kept Dez, Romo and paid Witten some type of mega contract to come back.

The Zeke argument is silly.
- The Cowboys are not the only team that had Zeke above Ramsey on their draft boards.
- Ramsey had a knee issue from a high school injury that some teams thought might be degenerative.
- He also had character issues to the point that at least one team took him off their draft board.
- There was no guarantee that Derrick Henry would be available in the 2nd.
- You are basing your opinions on what we know now, not the information that was available at the time.

- Myles Jack was definitely considered to have degenerative knee problems.
- Jaylon's Doctor thought he would fully recover.
- If both were healthy, Jaylon was universally rated higher than Jack based on college game footage.
- You complain about the risk of drafting Jaylon and then turn around and want to draft Jack.
- Multiple teams had removed Jack from their draft boards because of uncertainty about his knees.

• Dak
  • In 2021, the Cowboys were:
  • #1 in points scored
  • #1 in total yards
  • #2 in passing yards
  • #3 in passing TDs
  • #4 in passing 1st downs
  • The Cowboys problems in 2021 were from penalties, not because of Dak.

Fans overrate the value of veteran players to trade for draft picks every year.
- Only a select few players return premium picks in trades.
- Seattle tried to trade multi-time All Pro Earl Thomas a few years ago but could not get the 3rd round pick they wanted.
- Other teams would not just let Cleveland get Amari Cooper for a late round pick if any team thought that was a "steal".
- Regardless of what the Cowboys did, other teams would trade for him if they thought he had value.
- Teams didn't trade for him because he had a 20M salary and half as many catches as Davante Adams in about the same number of snaps.

Washington often 'won' free agency a decade ago with nothing to show for it.

• Which of their own talent did they fail to evaluate since 2016?
• Zeke?
  • At the time he signed the new contract, he had 4048 yards rushing in 3 seasons with a 4.7 yards/carry average.
  • His 1st downs per snaps played was the highest the season before he signed the new contract.
  • He also had 1200 yards receiving on 135 receptions at that point in time.
• Dak
  • Only moronic fans believe that other teams would have dumped Dak instead of giving him a new contract.
  • QBs are too difficult to find. Teams don't dump legit starters (Ex coaches & players in the media all rate Dak at a top 12 QB or better).

You want it both ways.
- You want to spend more but you also don't want to cut players like DWare.
- They had to cut DWare because they spent too much in free agency on lesser players.

• Summary:
  • Many fans like yourself want to compare team management to the concept of perfection.
  • In reality all teams have failed draft picks and make imperfect decisions.

Plenty of good old condescension. I have next to zero emotion in any of my posts or feelings about the team anymore. Plenty of big name free agents or trades have worked out well for even recent Super Bowl winners. Brady, Von Miller, Ramsey, Tyrann Mathieu, Demarcus Ware, Stephon Gilmore just to name a few.

I think it may be you that is emotionally defending the Cowboys front office since that is the team we cheer for. Other teams are actively acquiring big name/big money free agents or veterans via trade and winning Super Bowls directly tied to the moves.

I literally felt the way I did about those players in the 2016 draft before it began, during it, and after it. Jaylon’s doctor said he had seen quite a few people recover well from an injury like his (not that he would, and there was no probability assigned to the decision). Myles had a negative diagnosis of the knee, but many doctors said that he would play that same year but there was always going to be concern going forward. My point was that I would still pick him in the second round instead of Jaylon (who should not have been selected before the 5th round). I actually wanted one of the outstanding defensive tackles that draft more than either player.

Who said I did not want to cut DWare? Who said that I do not agree with trading some players or dumping their contracts?

Other squads understand that there are heavy risks associated with making the moves I am advocating for. Some squads are wildly successful when they pull out all the stops and others fail miserably. There were tons of people that laughed at how much LA gave up to replace their former number 1 overall QB who was not terrible (and had gotten them to a SB just a few years before). They made the move and it payed off in full the following year. It’s reality.

I already said that my opinion is what I would want the squad to do from a fan’s perspective (read the initial post). Signing Dak and Elliott to me was about treading water rather than going all in. They did not want to risk being cellar dwellers for even a year or two. That’s why I titled the thread no guts no glory.

 

[Rockport]

I do not have the patience or desire or time to constantly engage in trolling/bickering with the an opposing viewpoint if there is zero chance in me or them altering viewpoints because of the argument.

I do like to see other opinions and perspectives, which is why I even spend time on the board. So please share your thoughts on the following if you can manage (apologies for a long post).

My general belief is that the Cowboys’ front office main goal as a franchise for the past 3 decades has been to ensure they do not give a “get fired” effort. I’ve worked alongside literally several hundred different people throughout my career and realize the majority out there put an effort that I would categorize as middle of the road effort when compared to the whole spectrum of workers.

Going to the extreme and working as though tomorrow could be your last is usually reserved for a business owner that really needs/desires the business to excel financially. Or for someone desperate to move forward aggressively in their career path. Neither of these profiles fit for the Jones’ family for the last 3 decades.

The big motivator for them is to not finish at the bottom of the standings routinely. That would be potentially damaging to TV ratings and general interest in the squad (which the media, league execs, and team ownership value more than big wins). The current Cowboys’ model is to ensure middle of the road to slightly above average performance.

This is the point where so many on here get into arguments about the squad. Fans are not the ones that must put in the actual extreme work to turn mediocrity into greatness. They are also not the ones risking millions of dollars because of poor or radical decisions.

I am in the category of fans that are okay with awful results in the short term for a better chance at long term great success. I understand that you cannot guarantee long term success with ANY method. I have very little interest in the squad in the current version though. This keep your nose above water at all costs approach is like watching a body slowly decay.

In my opinion, that is how the decision to extend Dak is viewed by many fans. They understand he is not the worst option (even from the staunchest trolls). They probably are like me in that the decision was essentially a front office firm decision to keep the team’s nose above water for the foreseeable future. Without him, the team runs the risk of finishing last place in the division (perhaps for several years). I do not care about that risk (as a fan). I only care about the team putting together a squad that can make a conference championship game 1-2 times a decade and at least one Super Bowl appearance in that time frame (as a fan).

Would you rather make the playoffs 6 times in one decade with 9 out of 10 years finishing above last place (no conference championship games) OR make the playoffs in only 3 years with one super bowl appearance and 1 other conference championship game (but 5 last place finishes)? I’m for the latter option if you cannot tell.

This notion that Jerry isn’t trying to win the Super Bowl every year is just non sense. He’s just failing.

 

[GMO415]

Winning one SB after waiting 27 years is the answer.

 

[Pass2Run]

I do not have the patience or desire or time to constantly engage in trolling/bickering with the an opposing viewpoint if there is zero chance in me or them altering viewpoints because of the argument.

I do like to see other opinions and perspectives, which is why I even spend time on the board. So please share your thoughts on the following if you can manage (apologies for a long post).

My general belief is that the Cowboys’ front office main goal as a franchise for the past 3 decades has been to ensure they do not give a “get fired” effort. I’ve worked alongside literally several hundred different people throughout my career and realize the majority out there put an effort that I would categorize as middle of the road effort when compared to the whole spectrum of workers.

Going to the extreme and working as though tomorrow could be your last is usually reserved for a business owner that really needs/desires the business to excel financially. Or for someone desperate to move forward aggressively in their career path. Neither of these profiles fit for the Jones’ family for the last 3 decades.

The big motivator for them is to not finish at the bottom of the standings routinely. That would be potentially damaging to TV ratings and general interest in the squad (which the media, league execs, and team ownership value more than big wins). The current Cowboys’ model is to ensure middle of the road to slightly above average performance.

This is the point where so many on here get into arguments about the squad. Fans are not the ones that must put in the actual extreme work to turn mediocrity into greatness. They are also not the ones risking millions of dollars because of poor or radical decisions.

I am in the category of fans that are okay with awful results in the short term for a better chance at long term great success. I understand that you cannot guarantee long term success with ANY method. I have very little interest in the squad in the current version though. This keep your nose above water at all costs approach is like watching a body slowly decay.

In my opinion, that is how the decision to extend Dak is viewed by many fans. They understand he is not the worst option (even from the staunchest trolls). They probably are like me in that the decision was essentially a front office firm decision to keep the team’s nose above water for the foreseeable future. Without him, the team runs the risk of finishing last place in the division (perhaps for several years). I do not care about that risk (as a fan). I only care about the team putting together a squad that can make a conference championship game 1-2 times a decade and at least one Super Bowl appearance in that time frame (as a fan).

Would you rather make the playoffs 6 times in one decade with 9 out of 10 years finishing above last place (no conference championship games) OR make the playoffs in only 3 years with one super bowl appearance and 1 other conference championship game (but 5 last place finishes)? I’m for the latter option if you cannot tell.

Wow,

Excellent work on constructing this post.

 

[Pass2Run]

The Micah Parsons story.

On the next 30 for 30.

I liked the reasoning he led in with his post. But for every person that doesn't give us a chance, we still have a chance.

Everyone is so afraid of the Eagles. But I know the Eagles. They are still the Eagles. And that's always going to be worse than being a Cowboys fan.

From there, the old saying goes . . . any given Sunday.

 

[Big_D]

As long as those cash registers do not stop ringing up sales on Cowboys related stuff then just staying relevant has worked to perfection for Jerry Jones.

That perfection is flawed when it's the only thing held in any regard. The all mighty dollar. Nice, don't get me wrong, but he's also in the football business. Building a winning team isn't his strong suit.

 

[xwalker]

.....

Plenty of good old condescension. I have next to zero emotion in any of my posts or feelings about the team anymore. Plenty of big name free agents or trades have worked out well for even recent Super Bowl winners. Brady, Von Miller, Ramsey, Tyrann Mathieu, Demarcus Ware, Stephon Gilmore just to name a few.
This is Stephen A. Smith type of 'proof'.
You name a handful of free agents out of hundreds over the time period from DWare in Denver to now.
Your handful worked out, therefore signing free agents is guaranteed to work.

I think it may be you that is emotionally defending the Cowboys front office since that is the team we cheer for. Other teams are actively acquiring big name/big money free agents or veterans via trade and winning Super Bowls directly tied to the moves.
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick; therefore teams should trade all their picks to acquire as many 6th round picks as possible because they'll all be Tom Brady.

I literally felt the way I did about those players in the 2016 draft before it began, during it, and after it. Jaylon’s doctor said he had seen quite a few people recover well from an injury like his (not that he would, and there was no probability assigned to the decision). Myles had a negative diagnosis of the knee, but many doctors said that he would play that same year but there was always going to be concern going forward. My point was that I would still pick him in the second round instead of Jaylon (who should not have been selected before the 5th round). I actually wanted one of the outstanding defensive tackles that draft more than either player.
You cry about the risk of drafting Jaylon but advocate for drafting Jack.
- Both were high risk picks in the opinion of some teams.
- The general consensus was that Jack was at a high risk of having a short career.
- Jaylon was a higher risk of not playing early, but Doctor's thought that if he recovered that his long term prognosis was better than Jack's.

Who said I did not want to cut DWare? Who said that I do not agree with trading some players or dumping their contracts?
It is an example of what happens when they spend too much in free agency and are force to cut a better player than the free agents they signed.

Other squads understand that there are heavy risks associated with making the moves I am advocating for. Some squads are wildly successful when they pull out all the stops and others fail miserably. There were tons of people that laughed at how much LA gave up to replace their former number 1 overall QB who was not terrible (and had gotten them to a SB just a few years before). They made the move and it payed off in full the following year. It’s reality.
Did experts laugh? I didn't laugh. I always thought Stafford was a quality QB stuck with a bad franchise.

I already said that my opinion is what I would want the squad to do from a fan’s perspective (read the initial post). Signing Dak and Elliott to me was about treading water rather than going all in. They did not want to risk being cellar dwellers for even a year or two. That’s why I titled the thread no guts no glory.
It has been very rare for teams to not sign a QB that had as much success as Dak.
Signing Zeke was actually more of a go for it move than safe move.
The safe long term move would have been to trade him at that point.

 

[birdwells1]

I do not have the patience or desire or time to constantly engage in trolling/bickering with the an opposing viewpoint if there is zero chance in me or them altering viewpoints because of the argument.

I do like to see other opinions and perspectives, which is why I even spend time on the board. So please share your thoughts on the following if you can manage (apologies for a long post).

My general belief is that the Cowboys’ front office main goal as a franchise for the past 3 decades has been to ensure they do not give a “get fired” effort. I’ve worked alongside literally several hundred different people throughout my career and realize the majority out there put an effort that I would categorize as middle of the road effort when compared to the whole spectrum of workers.

Going to the extreme and working as though tomorrow could be your last is usually reserved for a business owner that really needs/desires the business to excel financially. Or for someone desperate to move forward aggressively in their career path. Neither of these profiles fit for the Jones’ family for the last 3 decades.

The big motivator for them is to not finish at the bottom of the standings routinely. That would be potentially damaging to TV ratings and general interest in the squad (which the media, league execs, and team ownership value more than big wins). The current Cowboys’ model is to ensure middle of the road to slightly above average performance.

This is the point where so many on here get into arguments about the squad. Fans are not the ones that must put in the actual extreme work to turn mediocrity into greatness. They are also not the ones risking millions of dollars because of poor or radical decisions.

I am in the category of fans that are okay with awful results in the short term for a better chance at long term great success. I understand that you cannot guarantee long term success with ANY method. I have very little interest in the squad in the current version though. This keep your nose above water at all costs approach is like watching a body slowly decay.

In my opinion, that is how the decision to extend Dak is viewed by many fans. They understand he is not the worst option (even from the staunchest trolls). They probably are like me in that the decision was essentially a front office firm decision to keep the team’s nose above water for the foreseeable future. Without him, the team runs the risk of finishing last place in the division (perhaps for several years). I do not care about that risk (as a fan). I only care about the team putting together a squad that can make a conference championship game 1-2 times a decade and at least one Super Bowl appearance in that time frame (as a fan).

Would you rather make the playoffs 6 times in one decade with 9 out of 10 years finishing above last place (no conference championship games) OR make the playoffs in only 3 years with one super bowl appearance and 1 other conference championship game (but 5 last place finishes)? I’m for the latter option if you cannot tell.

To your point, who takes a 12-5 division winner and take away talent and not replace it with upgrades? Our goal should have been building a team to compete either the Rams, 49ers and Packer. If we were doing that then we go all in and added key veterans via free agency or trade. The problem is that those teams aren’t our targets, we just wanted have a team good enough to win the East in which we went 6-0 last year. The Joneses didn’t think that Hurts and the Eagles were going to be what they have become, which is the best team in the East.
It crazy how if you use the draft and free agency how soon you can turn your team around.

Until we have people in the front office that can lose their jobs, I see many more years of the same thing.

 

[birdwells1]

Jerry made many moves trying to go "All In" and that did not work.
- Wacky trades and huge contracts for free agents.

Starting in 2014, they began to change how they operate.
- Fans have taken this change as a move towards not trying hard to win.
- In reality, they started doing things more like a quality NFL GM would operate.
- Stephen Jones pushed to promote Will McClay to the top player evaluation job.
- SJ and McClay started developing an actual plan and method of operation instead of 'wildcatting'.
- Focus on building through the draft, stop over-paying free agents, stop pushing the cap limits to the extreme.
- Once SJ pushed Garrett out the door, everyone in football operations now report to SJ and he reports to Jerry.
- This stopped players from going directly to Jerry.
- SJ hired McCarthy & treats him like an employee that will be fired if there he does not get results instead of Jerry treating Garrett as a stepson.
- They started making bold moves to dump players like Dez instead of holding onto them way too long like Jerry had done in the past.
- They made the move that Jimmy or Belichick would have made with Amari Cooper.
- Jimmy & Belichick would never tolerate players calling out the coaches in the media.

What should they have done differently starting from January 2016?

Name a Super Bowl Champion in that time period that hasn't added high quality free agents to bolster their roster.

They dumped Dez, I have no problem with that but what as their plan on replacing him?

They traded Amari but what's the plan for a number 1 wr to replace him?


Stephen Jones runs this team like an accountant not a football guy, his goal is to keep the team financially solvent, while other teams run their teams to try to win a championship.

 

[birdwells1]

I'm responding to this for other people to see because I know that you don't have the ability to understand it.
- Your posts are based on fan emotion, not on reality.

Fans post about free agency based on their "feeling" about how it works.
- In reality the probabilities of free agents being worth the investment is small.
- If free agency was all that, then why didn't the Raiders just sign a free agent instead of trading multiple picks for Davante Adams.
- Same question with the Dolphins and Tyreek Hill.

More 'brutally honest' evaluations of players is exactly what they've started doing.
- 15 years ago Jerry would have kept Dez, Romo and paid Witten some type of mega contract to come back.

The Zeke argument is silly.
- The Cowboys are not the only team that had Zeke above Ramsey on their draft boards.
- Ramsey had a knee issue from a high school injury that some teams thought might be degenerative.
- He also had character issues to the point that at least one team took him off their draft board.
- There was no guarantee that Derrick Henry would be available in the 2nd.
- You are basing your opinions on what we know now, not the information that was available at the time.

- Myles Jack was definitely considered to have degenerative knee problems.
- Jaylon's Doctor thought he would fully recover.
- If both were healthy, Jaylon was universally rated higher than Jack based on college game footage.
- You complain about the risk of drafting Jaylon and then turn around and want to draft Jack.
- Multiple teams had removed Jack from their draft boards because of uncertainty about his knees.

• Dak
  • In 2021, the Cowboys were:
  • #1 in points scored
  • #1 in total yards
  • #2 in passing yards
  • #3 in passing TDs
  • #4 in passing 1st downs
  • The Cowboys problems in 2021 were from penalties, not because of Dak.

Fans overrate the value of veteran players to trade for draft picks every year.
- Only a select few players return premium picks in trades.
- Seattle tried to trade multi-time All Pro Earl Thomas a few years ago but could not get the 3rd round pick they wanted.
- Other teams would not just let Cleveland get Amari Cooper for a late round pick if any team thought that was a "steal".
- Regardless of what the Cowboys did, other teams would trade for him if they thought he had value.
- Teams didn't trade for him because he had a 20M salary and half as many catches as Davante Adams in about the same number of snaps.

Washington often 'won' free agency a decade ago with nothing to show for it.

• Which of their own talent did they fail to evaluate since 2016?
• Zeke?
  • At the time he signed the new contract, he had 4048 yards rushing in 3 seasons with a 4.7 yards/carry average.
  • His 1st downs per snaps played was the highest the season before he signed the new contract.
  • He also had 1200 yards receiving on 135 receptions at that point in time.
• Dak
  • Only moronic fans believe that other teams would have dumped Dak instead of giving him a new contract.
  • QBs are too difficult to find. Teams don't dump legit starters (Ex coaches & players in the media all rate Dak at a top 12 QB or better).

You want it both ways.
- You want to spend more but you also don't want to cut players like DWare.
- They had to cut DWare because they spent too much in free agency on lesser players.

• Summary:
  • Many fans like yourself want to compare team management to the concept of perfection.
  • In reality all teams have failed draft picks and make imperfect decisions.

The Cowboys, Lions and Browns are the only teams to not make a Conference Championship in the last 27 years. Why do you think that is?

 

[Blitzen]

Plenty of good old condescension. I have next to zero emotion in any of my posts or feelings about the team anymore. Plenty of big name free agents or trades have worked out well for even recent Super Bowl winners. Brady, Von Miller, Ramsey, Tyrann Mathieu, Demarcus Ware, Stephon Gilmore just to name a few.
This is Stephen A. Smith type of 'proof'.
You name a handful of free agents out of hundreds over the time period from DWare in Denver to now.
Your handful worked out, therefore signing free agents is guaranteed to work.

I think it may be you that is emotionally defending the Cowboys front office since that is the team we cheer for. Other teams are actively acquiring big name/big money free agents or veterans via trade and winning Super Bowls directly tied to the moves.
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick; therefore teams should trade all their picks to acquire as many 6th round picks as possible because they'll all be Tom Brady.

I literally felt the way I did about those players in the 2016 draft before it began, during it, and after it. Jaylon’s doctor said he had seen quite a few people recover well from an injury like his (not that he would, and there was no probability assigned to the decision). Myles had a negative diagnosis of the knee, but many doctors said that he would play that same year but there was always going to be concern going forward. My point was that I would still pick him in the second round instead of Jaylon (who should not have been selected before the 5th round). I actually wanted one of the outstanding defensive tackles that draft more than either player.
You cry about the risk of drafting Jaylon but advocate for drafting Jack.
- Both were high risk picks in the opinion of some teams.
- The general consensus was that Jack was at a high risk of having a short career.
- Jaylon was a higher risk of not playing early, but Doctor's thought that if he recovered that his long term prognosis was better than Jack's.

Who said I did not want to cut DWare? Who said that I do not agree with trading some players or dumping their contracts?
It is an example of what happens when they spend too much in free agency and are force to cut a better player than the free agents they signed.

Other squads understand that there are heavy risks associated with making the moves I am advocating for. Some squads are wildly successful when they pull out all the stops and others fail miserably. There were tons of people that laughed at how much LA gave up to replace their former number 1 overall QB who was not terrible (and had gotten them to a SB just a few years before). They made the move and it payed off in full the following year. It’s reality.
Did experts laugh? I didn't laugh. I always thought Stafford was a quality QB stuck with a bad franchise.

I already said that my opinion is what I would want the squad to do from a fan’s perspective (read the initial post). Signing Dak and Elliott to me was about treading water rather than going all in. They did not want to risk being cellar dwellers for even a year or two. That’s why I titled the thread no guts no glory.
It has been very rare for teams to not sign a QB that had as much success as Dak.
Signing Zeke was actually more of a go for it move than safe move.
The safe long term move would have been to trade him at that point.

I am a fan, lol. There are no guarantees no matter which course of action is taken. All investments have risk. Some of the riskiest investments have the highest reward. A good front office wins more of those high risk investments than they lose. My general stance is the Cowboys do not even risk big in free agency when I gave examples of it actually working. Since it worked out the way it did for those clubs it was a good investment. The ones that don’t pan out are either bad or meh investments.

I actually said I would rather have taken one of the multiple good DT’s in the draft rather than either player at that pick. I still would pick Jack over Jaylon at that pick for the simple reason of timing. Romo was obviously on his last couple seasons at the time and the team needed players to contribute right away to try to win immediately.

The club likes signing their own players-to a fault in my opinion. I don’t think it was high risk to sign a running back to a large extension. I think it was an admission to how much Dak relied on a strong running game. Keep the nose up. Extending Elliot was because of his current value to the team and the offense at the time and the drop-off of the offense when he was not present.

 

[gimmesix]

First, I don't think Jerry & Co. are intentionally trying to just tread water. I think they're trying to win, but they want to do it their way, thinking they know how, when they really don't. It's borderline Dunning Kruger Effect. It's not lack of effort, but lack of sense.

I agree. I think some mistake incompetence for intent.

Incompetence for most teams is solved by the owner hiring a new GM. Since our owner is the GM, the incompetence just continues despite the fact that it's been shown to be incompetent.

Jerry is essentially the definition of insanity. He thinks he's not doing the same thing over and over again because he's changed philosophies a few times over the years, but he's doing the same thing over and over again by stubbornly believing this team can win with him as GM even though it's been disproven since 1995.

 

[BourbonBalz]

My stance is that their first priority is treading water. Winning big is an ancillary prize-not a real objective.

I disagree. I think Jerry would sell his soul for another title. I think he wants to win as much or more than any other owner. I just think he’s a poor GM that meddles way too much and makes too many bad decisions. I think the biggest problem with the organization by far is the lack of accountability for players, coaches, and front office. There’s way too much of a sense of entitlement in the whole organization.

 

[cowboyed]

My stance is that their first priority is treading water. Winning big is an ancillary prize-not a real objective.

A lack of desire to win is far from the issue. They are frantically swimming against a wave machine in a pool of their own minds. The collective football IQ of team executive management and ownership is lacking and further exacerbated by inbred hiring practices and arrogantly believing that along with other major business interests they can handle it all. Jacks of all trades, masters of none.

 

[tunahelper]

Dallas has had many "good squads" throughout the years. But, they need a decent HC/OC to take these squads to the nest level.

A young Shanahan took over the Niners a few years back & took them to the SB in his 4th season. Young McVay is both the play caller & HC for the Rams & took a horrid Goff & Stafford to SB's. Same w/Reid. Both play caller & HC. These 3 coaches, not the players, are tough to beat. Coaches are the core of a franchise & Dallas hasn't had one since Johnson.

I agree with your point 100%, but would add one key ingredient. The Jones family want to much daily control for any coach to succeed.

In my life/business experience the "boots on the ground" need a clear leader. The leader can have a boss, but it is understood the clear leader makes the decisions. Then if the clear line of decision making is done by a good, fair, but firm leader success will follow.

I have been in charge of more than 1000 people at once in my career. This approach was used by me when I had good middle management leaders. They had their teams ear I backed off because any meddling would only hurt the cause.

Jerry is a meddling force that everyone knows has the last say. Players will always view the coach as a helper without final say. Jerry tells us all the time he has final say. The other day he discussed that he levies fines on players as well. So Jerry makes final calls on everything, picks players, fines players.

Coaches call plays and run team drills, while Jerry runs the show.

 

[tyke1doe]

First, I don't think Jerry & Co. are intentionally trying to just tread water. I think they're trying to win, but they want to do it their way, thinking they know how, when they really don't. It's borderline Dunning Kruger Effect. It's not lack of effort, but lack of sense.

As for signing Dak, I was on the fence, but if a QB comes along who seems like a near sure thing, I wouldn't be averse to doing just about whatever we need to, in order to draft him, short of giving up Micah. Tank the season for someone like that?...Sure. Give up Lamb and Diggs?...Maybe. But the problem is that there's no such thing as a sure thing, especially where QBs are concerned, and I'd rather have a winning season that goes nowhere than a losing season that goes nowhere.

Good post.

I agree also. I have no doubt Jerry & Co. want to win. They just want to win THEIR WAY.
Jerry is a gambler. Always has been. And he believes he can strike it rich just like he did in the oil industry.
That's in his DNA, and he thinks that will translate into football. That's who he is, and that's who he'll continue to be.
And he will win or lose doing it HIS WAY!

The problem I have with Dak as it relates to Jerry is Jerry knew all along he was going to sign Dak but waited until his price went up.
If memory serves me correctly, he could have signed him shortly after the Eagles signed Wentz for less than the $40 million he paid him the season afterwards.

Dak is here to stay for the foreseeable future unless Rush becomes the next Tom Brady, or we lose the rest of our games and get the first overall draft pick. Even then, Bryce Young is great, but he's slight of frame, and I don't know how well he's going to hold up in the NFL.

So, I'm at the point where I hope for the best but expect the worst. Shrug.

 

[Runwildboys]

Good post.

I agree also. I have no doubt Jerry & Co. want to win. They just want to win THEIR WAY.
Jerry is a gambler. Always has been. And he believes he can strike it rich just like he did in the oil industry.
That's in his DNA, and he thinks that will translate into football. That's who he is, and that's who he'll continue to be.
And he will win or lose doing it HIS WAY!

The problem I have with Dak as it relates to Jerry is Jerry knew all along he was going to sign Dak but waited until his price went up.
If memory serves me correctly, he could have signed him shortly after the Eagles signed Wentz for less than the $40 million he paid him the season afterwards.

Dak is here to stay for the foreseeable future unless Rush becomes the next Tom Brady, or we lose the rest of our games and get the first overall draft pick. Even then, Bryce Young is great, but he's slight of frame, and I don't know how well he's going to hold up in the NFL.

So, I'm at the point where I hope for the best but expect the worst. Shrug.

I thought the whole issue with Dak's contract delay was that they were looking at different time periods. I think they wanted a longer term contract than he wanted.