CFZ Noah, Dalton, Dorrance, and Cooper: The Guys You Didn't Want

[Coogiguy03]

Every preseason there were numerous threads about how the Cowboys should get rid of these guys, how they were taking up a roster spot unnecessarily. They were fringe players, posters claimed, who were never going to amount to anything.

And, by the way, I'm not excluding myself. This isn't a "I told you so". This is just a small tribute to the blue collar players that typically don't get the accolades. Quite the opposite.

Why are they still on the team? The Cowboys should cut them to make room for "________".

"They are only keeping Dalton until Blake returns."

"All Noah can do is special teams."

"Dorrance Armstrong can't get in the same zip code as the opponent's quarterback."

"Get a real backup QB. Cooper Rush is just a warm body."

There are two concepts that I think many Cowboys fans don't take into consideration.

The first is familiarity. The longer a player remains on a team then the more he knows his teammates and usually the coaches. They know the system. They know their plays and their role on the team. They go to practice every day with their teammates. They form bonds.

The second is constant improvement when it comes to the quality of their play, their physical conditioning, and football education. They get better through constant practice. They get stronger through conditioning programs monitored by their coaches. They learn and acquire new skills and techniques.

I would say that the difference between the "fringe" players that make it and the ones that don't are their dedication to constant improvement. Coaches often consider their attitude and willingness to do whatever their teams need them for whether it is special teams or their preparation in the event they are needed on the field.

With the start of training camps these guys were considered "bubble" players almost every preseason. However, they were also in the top 300 college players at some point, the cream of the crop. In high school they were perennial All-State or All-City, the best in their school, perhaps even in their school's history. These are proud athletes.

We enjoy getting our 1st round draft picks and watching them make large contributions to their teams. It's easy to have those expectations, that's why they were drafted in the 1st round.

However, what is a major attribute on teams that consistently win? It is their ability to find players in the lower rounds or rookie free agency that make positive contributions. The Cowboys seem to be succeeding in that category despite fan perceptions that tend to judge players as final products out of college.

Lawrence is who I don't want and Zeke

 

[shabazz]

That's prolific.

and profound too..

 

[shabazz]

Why do some poster refer to players by their first names?

I know I did when we were discussing how bad Nnamdi turned out in Philly…..his first name is easier to spell than his last…..

 

[Jumbo075]

The problem is that Jerry and Stephen think they have an elite QB in Dakota; they don't know how to evaluate their own talent.

The bigger problem is that since Romo sprang onto the scene in 2006, the Cowboys went back to trying to win by putting most of their resources into the offense. The defense was ranked #1 back in 2004 or 2005, but hasn’t been a top defense since then.

Dak is NOT an elite QB, but he is a competent NFL QB. If the Cowboys can field a championship level defense, Dak is good enough to lead the team to a championship. But if the Cowboys keep trying to win primarily with offense, Dak isn’t an elite level player that is good enough to elevate the offense above the natural level of the talent of the players.

Very few QB’s are that naturally talented - probably no more than 4-5 in any given season. But Dak is every bit as talented as Eli Manning, who won 2 Super Bowls with a top defense. It really depends on if the Cowboys commit to maintaining a top defense. If they do, Dak is good enough. If they don’t, then they’ll have to get lucky, and find a Tom Brady clone. Good luck with that.

Let’s be honest. Troy Aikman was never an elite level QB. Without Emmitt Smith, Troy had a losing record. Troy is in the Hall of Fame because of Emmitt, and the Elite level defenses he played with, not due to his ability to elevate the team. Troy was Matt Stafford before Matt Stafford, a talented QB who won Super Bowls because of great talent around him.

Troy didn’t elevate the Cowboys. But he was very good. Eli was simply good, not very good. Dak is good, below the level of Troy. But the Cowboys can win with him if the defense carries the team. The Cowboys also need an upgrade at RB, and a better Offensive Coordinator who will commit to the run.

 

[shabazz]

And look where Mahomes and Aaron were drafted…..after guys like Alex Smith and Mitch Tribusky. There’s a chance that quarterback you draft is as good or worse than what you have. Can you imagine if we did what people on this site wanted and drafted a quarterback instead of Micah?

…….How bout a quarterback instead of Trysten Hill in the 2nd rd…..or Taco in the 1st round…both reaches

nobody here was referring to a “can’t miss pick” like Parsons…lol

 

[DandyDon52]

All we ever see Rush play with is the scrubs in pre season games. The 2 times he has been able to play with the starters he has done a decent job. He's going to get a lot more playing time in the next 5 weeks, so we'll be able to get a better look at him. Will he be able compete better against the tougher teams that Dak crumbles against? That remains to be seen.

The only way to truly evaluate a player is to see them play in real games, preferably several in a row.
I hope rush gets at least 4 starts, and if he does good, maybe some other team might want him as a starter.

I dont know, I agree with what tony said about him, he isnt afraid to throw in tight spots, he has confidence and doesnt get rattled by pressure or sacks , hits etc.
But to know what he really is or can do i need to seem him play a few more games.

I think if he does good though, dak will come back early to nip that in the bud.

 

[shabazz]

The bigger problem is that since Romo sprang onto the scene in 2006, the Cowboys went back to trying to win by putting most of their resources into the offense. The defense was ranked #1 back in 2004 or 2005, but hasn’t been a top defense since then.

Dak is NOT an elite QB, but he is a competent NFL QB. If the Cowboys can field a championship level defense, Dak is good enough to lead the team to a championship. But if the Cowboys keep trying to win primarily with offense, Dak isn’t an elite level player that is good enough to elevate the offense above the natural level of the talent of the players.

Very few QB’s are that naturally talented - probably no more than 4-5 in any given season. But Dak is every bit as talented as Eli Manning, who won 2 Super Bowls with a top defense. It really depends on if the Cowboys commit to maintaining a top defense. If they do, Dak is good enough. If they don’t, then they’ll have to get lucky, and find a Tom Brady clone. Good luck with that.

Let’s be honest. Troy Aikman was never an elite level QB. Without Emmitt Smith, Troy had a losing record. Troy is in the Hall of Fame because of Emmitt, and the Elite level defenses he played with, not due to his ability to elevate the team. Troy was Matt Stafford before Matt Stafford, a talented QB who won Super Bowls because of great talent around him.

Troy didn’t elevate the Cowboys. But he was very good. Eli was simply good, not very good. Dak is good, below the level of Troy. But the Cowboys can win with him if the defense carries the team. The Cowboys also need an upgrade at RB, and a better Offensive Coordinator who will commit to the run.

I agree with many of this but where we disagree is on the LEVEL of defense needed. It’s already been proven with a 1-3 playoff record that with Dak we need a 85 Bears or Legion of Boom defense to eke out more than 1 wins in 6 years……try building one of those faster than acquiring 1 elite Qb

 

[khiladi]

It isn't your opinion alone. I caught the middle of a conversation about Dak vs. Rush on 105.3 yesterday and the hosts were kind of trashing Dak a bit. They said Dak has the ability to beat up on sorry teams but disappears against better competition or playoff scenarios. Rush only has 2 starts and 2 wins on his resume, but both games were against tougher competition that Dak normally struggles against. They said Rush seems to have much better accuracy, better reads, and releases the ball quicker.

All we ever see Rush play with is the scrubs in pre season games. The 2 times he has been able to play with the starters he has done a decent job. He's going to get a lot more playing time in the next 5 weeks, so we'll be able to get a better look at him. Will he be able compete better against the tougher teams that Dak crumbles against? That remains to be seen.

This wouldn't be a popular opinion with the Dak fans but I feel the competition at the QB position could end up benefitting the team. It might force Dak to start working harder knowing his job could be on the line.

Dak has a football field in his backyard. Dak supposedly practices hard, though he doesn’t practice well.

Dak is who he is.

 

[DandyDon52]

The bigger problem is that since Romo sprang onto the scene in 2006, the Cowboys went back to trying to win by putting most of their resources into the offense. The defense was ranked #1 back in 2004 or 2005, but hasn’t been a top defense since then.

Dak is NOT an elite QB, but he is a competent NFL QB. If the Cowboys can field a championship level defense, Dak is good enough to lead the team to a championship. But if the Cowboys keep trying to win primarily with offense, Dak isn’t an elite level player that is good enough to elevate the offense above the natural level of the talent of the players.

Very few QB’s are that naturally talented - probably no more than 4-5 in any given season. But Dak is every bit as talented as Eli Manning, who won 2 Super Bowls with a top defense. It really depends on if the Cowboys commit to maintaining a top defense. If they do, Dak is good enough. If they don’t, then they’ll have to get lucky, and find a Tom Brady clone. Good luck with that.

Let’s be honest. Troy Aikman was never an elite level QB. Without Emmitt Smith, Troy had a losing record. Troy is in the Hall of Fame because of Emmitt, and the Elite level defenses he played with, not due to his ability to elevate the team. Troy was Matt Stafford before Matt Stafford, a talented QB who won Super Bowls because of great talent around him.

Troy didn’t elevate the Cowboys. But he was very good. Eli was simply good, not very good. Dak is good, below the level of Troy. But the Cowboys can win with him if the defense carries the team. The Cowboys also need an upgrade at RB, and a better Offensive Coordinator who will commit to the run.

So what about rush ?? can he win with a elite defense ? Dilfer did!
As to what you said about troy and eli , I agree to a point, but both of those guys played at a higher level once in the playoffs, I think both
played elite in their SB run playoff games.

 

[Ranched]

Rush isn't a good backup quarterback. Many of his passes were high against Cincy, but our WR's made him look good by catching them. He did have some decent passes, but don't expect him to carry this team anytime soon.

Why do some poster refer to players by their first names?

Why not? Many times it's easier to type Zeke insteal of Elliott. Or, Dak instead of Prescott.

 

[shabazz]

The ironic thing here is that some who criticize Jerry’s GM skills are now defending his decision to not draft a Qb in the first 2 rounds…….has Jerry’s way worked for the last quarter century?

He has supplied this team with non elite talent at the quarterback position and the results are indisputable

 

[shabazz]

Rush isn't a good backup quarterback. Many of his passes were high but our WR's made him look good by catching them.
Why not? Many times it's easier to type Zeke insteal of Elliott. Or, Dak instead of Prescott.

So the first game the receivers sucked but last game they all became all stars by making acrobatic catches?

They saved their skills for the backup qb?

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I want us to be a dynasty again, but the front office hasn't dissected how dynasties are built. The blueprint to a dynasty is hidden in NFL history.

I see what you are saying but I honestly think NFL dynasty is a thing of the past. Escalating salaries and free agency makes winning ONE Super Bowl a challenge, let alone two or three with the same players. Rogers, Maholmes, and Brees all have only one Super Bowl. My point is building a team that can consistently win its division or makes the playoff is more realistic.

 

[McKDaddy]

For some clueless posters here, if you aren't a pro bowler, you're garbage.

and if you get named to a pro bowl, you are eternal HOF material regardless of how you play weekly or if you even deserved the pro bowl accolade in the first place.

 

[Mr_437]

Heck I'm still trying to replace Dorrance for giving all those rush yards. The other guys have all been in my good graces.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Wow! An “I told you so” thread. How original.

Normally the "I told you so's" are negative naysayers trying to get the early bid in. This is refreshingly positive.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

That's prolific.

I'm not sure "prolific" is the right word?

adjective
producing offspring, young, fruit, etc., abundantly; highly fruitful:a prolific pear tree.
producing in large quantities or with great frequency; highly productive:a prolific writer.
profusely productive or fruitful (often followed by in or of):a bequest prolific of litigations.
characterized by abundant production:a prolific year for tomatoes.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

and profound too..

There you go.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

…….How bout a quarterback instead of Trysten Hill in the 2nd rd…..or Taco in the 1st round…both reaches

nobody here was referring to a “can’t miss pick” like Parsons…lol

You missed my point.

We rarely have high picks. We had a high pick the Micah year and you would’ve taken a quarterback over him. In hindsight you wouldn’t.

And what prospect did they miss out on in the Taco and Tristen years? Y’all say anything lol.

 

[shabazz]

You missed my point.

We rarely have high picks. We had a high pick the Micah year and you would’ve taken a quarterback over him. In hindsight you wouldn’t.

And what prospect did they miss out on in the Taco and Tristen years? Y’all say anything lol.

If we had a GM worth a crap they move up in drafts and make deals to do so. Many other teams have done exactly this over decades but we just stand pat. I already mentioned that Parsons was a can’t miss pick so stop that nonsense.

Jerry loves fans like you that back his style of management….especially when it comes to not acquiring elite talent at the Qb position. Y’all accept any crap Jerry serves you as long as you like the Qb.