Norm, on the ticket, cowboys and pats rumor

[YosemiteSam]

Look at the recent drafts and you'll see that's just about the right price to move up to the Cowboys spot. It's even an overpay if you really look at it closely.

To give you an example, that's a bigger pot than what the Cleveland Brown got for trading with the Jets from #5 to that same #17 spot and the Browns were trading a pick that represented a potentialy franchise type QB in Mark Sanchez.

Actually, it's 100 points under value.

Cowboys #9: 1350
NE #17 (950), #60 (300) = 1250

Still, you don't trade a blue chip for a 2nd and 5th tier player. Thats dumb. Thats like trading a Harley for a Honda Rebel and a moped. I think not.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

You probably could, but who is it going to be ? The Cowboys aren't going to use it on a QB. They've made it clear they're not interested in Fairley. I'd love for them to get my guy Robert Quinn if he falls there, but that's not going to realistically happen and I understand their reasoning. They don't need a WR so forget Julio Jones.

So who else ? Offensive tackle ? Is there really a huge difference between Smith and Castonzo or Carimi that's worth the extra millions of dollars it would cost ?

DE ? Huge difference between Watt, Bowers ( injury concerns ), Jordan, Wilkerson ?

That's something that must be taken into consideration.

Depends on your definition of "huge" difference. If a huge difference is one guy becoming an elite player and the other just being good, then the trade isn't worth it.

WE aren't the ones that need to be looking to move out of the pick. NE is the team that wants to move up. We SHOULD be in a position where we only move down in a deal that works for us, not just any old deal that comes along because we feel pressured to not pick at 9.

 

[Randy White]

Didn't the Browns also get players in that deal?

They did. 3 veterans players, one of them who used to be a Cowboy and none of them made any impact. It was more of " 3 Manginius " guys..

 

[Randy White]

Depends on your definition of "huge" difference. If a huge difference is one guy becoming an elite player and the other just being good, then the trade isn't worth it.

That's the question, isn't it ? Nobody can really say who's going to turn out how and THAT also must be taken into consideration.

WE aren't the ones that need to be looking to move out of the pick. NE is the team that wants to move up. We SHOULD be in a position where we only move down in a deal that works for us, not just any old deal that comes along because we feel pressured to not pick at 9.

That deal would work for us if that's what the Cowboys are looking to do. It's the recent market price and it helps the team. Dallas would be getting an extra pick in the 2nd round, save themselves millions of dollars, and probably still get the same player they were targeting at #9 or someone with similar skills.

 

[Randy White]

Actually, it's 100 points under value.

Cowboys #9: 1350
NE #17 (950), #60 (300) = 1250

Please, enough of the point chart. It became obsolete years ago.

Still, you don't trade a blue chip for a 2nd and 5th tier player. Thats dumb. Thats like trading a Harley for a Honda Rebel and a moped. I think not.

Again, who amongst the " blue chippers " should the Cowboys pick assuming PP is out of the picture ?

 

[DOUBLE WING]

How is the point chart obsolete? It's still what teams mainly base trades off of. This proposed trade is LOSING value.

Randy - do you think there is no difference in, say...Tyron Smith and Nate Solder? That may be what we're looking at here. IMO, that's a catastrophic drop off

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Please, enough of the point chart. It became obsolete years ago.



Again, who amongst the " blue chippers " should the Cowboys pick assuming PP is out of the picture ?

If the Pats are lusting after Jordan so much, Jerry should just take Jordan. He fits our D perfectly. It's a no-brainer really. You get to use the best scouting staff in the NFL's talent evaluation free of charge.

 

[Stash]

Please, enough of the point chart. It became obsolete years ago.

For Jerry apparently...

Again, who amongst the " blue chippers " should the Cowboys pick assuming PP is out of the picture ?

Tyron Smith

The bigger question is what do you do if Smith, Jordan Watt, Castonzo and Carimi go between picks 9 and 17?

Do they again panic and scramble down in another trade at a loss like they did in 2009?

And do we again end up with 12 nobodies?

Give me pick #33 and I'll think about it.

That will allow me to control Day 2 of this draft and likely parlay that pick into either a trade up for someone they really like in round 1 (say Danny Watkins) or they can take whoever is there at #33, or they can offer it up for a price higher than the chart says.

If not, no thanks

 

[Randy White]

How is the point chart obsolete? It's still what teams mainly base trades off of. This proposed trade is LOSING value.

Not, it's not. Ravens/Jaguars, Jets/Browns, just out of the top of my head, in recent drafts have shown that the point chart is virtually irrelevant. The money that's paid to players in the top 10 have made it so.

Randy - do you think there is no difference in, say...Tyron Smith and Nate Solder? That may be what we're looking at here. IMO, that's a catastrophic drop off

There is a difference between those two, but that difference is not worth millions of dollars an extra 2nd round pick. Solder, most likely, wouldn't be the only option available for the Cowboys at #17. I don't even think they would take him regardless, but that's just my opinion about Solder.

 

[diehard2294]

I dont like this trade at all...

you dont get many chances at a top 10 pick... so dont make a trade where you slide all the way down to 17 and possibly miss out on your top 4 guys on your board

 

[Randy White]

If the Pats are lusting after Jordan so much, Jerry should just take Jordan. He fits our D perfectly. It's a no-brainer really. You get to use the best scouting staff in the NFL's talent evaluation free of charge.

That's no way to run a football team. You don't use another teams' evaluation process as the sole basis for making your own pick.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

That's no way to run a football team. You don't use another teams' evaluation process as the sole basis for making your own pick.

It's not the SOLE basis. I'd imagine Jordan is high on our board as well.

Getting fleeced in the draft because you're afraid to spend a few extra million is no way to run a football team either.

 

[Stash]

Not, it's not. Ravens/Jaguars, Jets/Browns, just out of the top of my head, in recent drafts have shown that the point chart is virtually irrelevant. The money that's paid to players in the top 10 have made it so.

Again, the Browns/Jets trade also included players. That needs to be factored into the equation.

There is a difference between those two, but that difference is not worth millions of dollars an extra 2nd round pick. Solder, most likely, wouldn't be the only option available for the Cowboys at #17. I don't even think they would take him regardless, but that's just my opinion about Solder.

If money is any determining factor, we're in worse shape than I thought.

Money is a factor for the Bengals or Jaguars of the world, it shouldn;t be a factor for Dallas.

If you want to save money, chop some of the dead-weight, big-money contracts like Leonard Davis.

 

[Stash]

That's no way to run a football team. You don't use another teams' evaluation process as the sole basis for making your own pick.

I agree, but you should factor it into your final decision.

 

[Randy White]

The bigger question is what do you do if Smith, Jordan, Watt, Castonzo, and Carimi go between picks 9 and 17?

There's Muhammad Wilkerson, there's Mike Pouncey, there's Corey Liuget, just to name a few. There might even be a Prince Amukamara or even a Robert Quinn available.

They have to take a look at how the draft is going at that point and take everything under consideration.

 

[Randy White]

I agree, but you should factor it into your final decision.

No doubt about it. As a matter of fact, teams DO factor that in when they make a decision when they make their pick or trade down, but not as the " only " way.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I dont like this trade at all...

you dont get many chances at a top 10 pick... so dont make a trade where you slide all the way down to 17 and possibly miss out on your top 4 guys on your board

We can always trade back up. It would cost less than what we got to move down.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Randy - do you think there is no difference in, say...Tyron Smith and Nate Solder?

I'm not Randy, but I don't think there's that big of a difference between Smith and Solder. That said, I wouldn't want to miss out on Castonzo or Carimi for the sake of this trade. It would have to be much sweeter to move that far.

 

[Stash]

There's Muhammad Wilkerson, there's Mike Pouncey, there's Corey Liuget, just to name a few. There might even be a Prince Amukamara or even a Robert Quinn available.

They have to take a look at how the draft is going at that point and take everything under consideration.

I think Pouncey goes #15 to Miami, that team is desparate for guard help. So desparate that they were signing spares from Dallas!

I don't consider either Wilkerson or Liuget great fits for the 3-4 defense.

Just me, but I want no part of a 0 interception cornerback.

Quinn is a good player, but where does he start for you in 2011?

 

[Randy White]

Again, the Browns/Jets trade also included players. That needs to be factored into the equation.

Not really. Think of it this way, those players were like most of the players that came to Dallas in the Hershel Walker trade. They were throw ins.

If money is any determining factor, we're in worse shape than I thought. Money is a factor for the Bengals or Jaguars of the world, it shouldn;t be a factor for Dallas. If you want to save money, chop some of the dead-weight, big-money contracts like Leonard Davis.

Money has to be a factor. The Cowboys are a wealthy team, but they don't have infinite resources. The Pats themselves are a wealthy team and they're more frugal than Dallas. Don't confuse losing a star player because of money at being prudent in the draft, or even free agency, with money being one of the factors.

Jerrah always says " I like to keep my powder dry ", which means if there's no need to overspend, then don't. Save that money for later on, for example, signing a young, talented free agent O-linemen that became available for whatever reason.