Nose Tackle

[doomsday81]

That story was a lot more complicated than that. For one, Carter wasn't considered a 6th or 7th but more a 4th round draft choice. For another, there was some kind of Michael Vick "tsunami effect" that year that pushed all the rushing quarterbacks up the value charts because everyone wanted a piece of someone or something Vick-like. This happened very late in the draft process, within a day or two of the draft. This effect was being reported by the War Room on the day of the draft, with notes that Quincy Carter was being looked at seriously by the San Diego Chargers instead of Drew Brees in round two. I have pretty distinct memories of that web page.

That unfortunately the most serious player for Q was JJ is true. I suspect however that Oakland would have drafted Q had JJ not have gone after him.

Of course, Dallas compound the issue by drafting Tony Dixon instead of say, Shaun Rogers. I was all for sticking at 37 myself and drafting the best DT available. I would have taken Kris Jenkins, myself. My brother, a member of this board, complains to this day that we should have taken Rogers.

It was the times, and they were weird. The pet rock craze made more sense than the copy-of-Vick phenomenon that landed us Q.

David.

I was actually just joking around and exaggerating the point but the biggest joke was that draft which may go down as the single worst draft in NFL history.

 

[dallasfan]

Watson is supposed to be 25ish or so. I can't remember a time when a nose tackle fell in the draft. They don't. They tend to be drafted above rated value, often a whole round above rated value. Or is Casey Hampton just a happy memory in the eyes of Longhorn fans?

I don't think Antajj Hawthorne was a NT, but he was a big DT that fell big time. I'd love it (although it would suck for him) if Watson did that.

 

[dwmyers]

I don't think Antajj Hawthorne was a NT, but he was a big DT that fell big time. I'd love it (although it would suck for him) if Watson did that.

Antajj had endurance issues and I think a positive drug test.

David.

 

[tar_heel16]

Hawthorne only fell because drug problems... Watson doesnt seem to have those problems.

 

[dwmyers]

Hawthorne only fell because drug problems... Watson doesnt seem to have those problems.

Did you watch any of the Senior Bowl that year? Antajj wasn't very mobile either. He'd get his push and guys would run right past him.

 

[AsthmaField]

Watson is supposed to be 25ish or so. I can't remember a time when a nose tackle fell in the draft. They don't. They tend to be drafted above rated value, often a whole round above rated value. Or is Casey Hampton just a happy memory in the eyes of Longhorn fans?

You're right in that DT's/NT's generally tend to be drafted as high or higher than their talent warrants. Just like RB's, LB's and G's typically are drafted lower than their ability says they should go.

However, some DT/NT can slide.

You mentioned Hampton, who went higher than some people thought he would... but don't forget his linemate Shaun Rogers. He was generally listed higher than Hampton on most mock drafts and he went all the way to the bottom of round 2. Mostly because of the injury... but some because he was thought of as a little lazy. Hampton was the guy credited with motivating Rogers to play hard, and the NFL chose the guy who was the self starter... as they usually do.

Like someone else already mentioned, Hawthorn slid as well, but because of drug concerns more than lazieness or injury. Warren Sapp for that matter, slid down in the first round because of a rumor that he had tested positive for ganja at the combine. Didn't Vince Wilfork go lower than expected? I think he was slated to go top 10 or so, but actually went at like pick #20.

It can happen. I think Ngata may go a little bit lower than some might think because of his laid back attitude.

Having said all of that, it still wouldn't surprise me if Watson went way earlier than we're thinking. I actually wouldn't be all that surprised if we took the guy at 18... although I wouldn't like it. Parcells loves those big maulers and he subscribes to the "World" theory. The "World" theory states that there are only so many guys in the world that are that big and can move like that when he wants to and that you should nab them when they come available to you.

I still think we may very well end up with Watson in the second round. Something like this is what I'd like to see and really think it could happen:

1. Bobby Carpenter
2. Gabe Watson
3. FS

That would put our defense over the top and allow us to do whatever we wanted to defensively.

 

[dwmyers]

You're right in that DT's/NT's generally tend to be drafted as high or higher than their talent warrants. Just like RB's, LB's and G's typically are drafted lower than their ability says they should go.

However, some DT/NT can slide.

You mentioned Hampton, who went higher than some people thought he would... but don't forget his linemate Shaun Rogers. He was generally listed higher than Hampton on most mock drafts and he went all the way to the bottom of round 2.

Shaun was injured, could not work out, was in a wheel chair, and despite the old saw that an injured player is never drafted before round 3, Rogers was still drafted in round 2.

An argument can be made that Rogers was drafted above value, given the effects of his injury.

Other players who suffer injuries before the draft tend to end up getting drafted in round 6.

Q: Is Watson injured?

I still think we may very well end up with Watson in the second round.

Why? Did he have a bad Senior Bowl week? Does he do drugs?

Gabe, in fact, had a dominating Senior Bowl week. He was the best looking defensive tackle there. Does he have a drug rap? no. The only downside to Gabe is work ethic (perhaps), and that may cost him 5-10 draft spots (as an example, think Jimmy Kennedy) but I don't think it causes him to drop an entire round, which is what you seem to be wishing for.

David.

 

[Woods]

Shaun was injured, could not work out, was in a wheel chair, and despite the old saw that an injured player is never drafted before round 3, Rogers was still drafted in round 2.

An argument can be made that Rogers was drafted above value, given the effects of his injury.

Other players who suffer injuries before the draft tend to end up getting drafted in round 6.

Q: Is Watson injured?



Why? Did he have a bad Senior Bowl week? Does he do drugs?

Gabe, in fact, had a dominating Senior Bowl week. He was the best looking defensive tackle there. Does he have a drug rap? no. The only downside to Gabe is work ethic (perhaps), and that may cost him 5-10 draft spots (as an example, think Jimmy Kennedy) but I don't think it causes him to drop an entire round, which is what you seem to be wishing for.

David.

Wasn't Watson also benched this previous season due to his "unmotivated" play? I think he was.

I think it's a major risk taking a player like that in the 1st round. What if he returns to form and decides to only play when he feels like it? Clearly, when Watson WANTS to dominate he can. The problem is that he's not consistent. At the Senior Bowl he had a lot at stake so he pushed himself. But is he capable of doing that after becoming a millionaire?

 

[burmafrd]

Watson was BENCHED early his SENIOR year. He is strictly a guy who only put forth the effort when he wanted too. He DEFINITLY does not have a big motor. AND it don't run all the time. STAY away from Watson.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/gabewatson.html

 

[burmafrd]

Steve Fifita Utah. 5-11, 323 and VERY STRONG. Can be had in the 5th.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/dt/stevefifita.html

 

[dwmyers]

Wasn't Watson also benched this previous season due to his "unmotivated" play? I think he was.

I think it's a major risk taking a player like that in the 1st round. What if he returns to form and decides to only play when he feels like it? Clearly, when Watson WANTS to dominate he can. The problem is that he's not consistent. At the Senior Bowl he had a lot at stake so he pushed himself. But is he capable of doing that after becoming a millionaire?

I think that players with motivation issues are hardly new. Think Daryl Gardiner. Jimmy Johnson drafted him anyway. The question of players with motivation issues is whether your coaches can get him to play the way you want him to. Not my call, and not yours either. That's an Ireland/Parcells deal entirely.

The other question is that of DT myopia: aren't there other DT candidates that are ranked in the late first round? How come Roderick Wright has fallen from the ranks of the ultra sexy (he was extremely hot last year until he didn't come out) to just "ehh, so what, too light"?

David.