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rwalters31

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You can see that just being 300 lbs does not make you a NFL offensive lineman. The tackle position is the most important position beside QB on the offense. Yet, we see that if no speed at moving will get your QB killed. After years of watching NFL football and specifically the Cowboys, you need to look for the most athletic 280 to 300 lb players for tackle. Fleet of foot with great balance and has great hands for combat. After looking at the tackles coming out of college it is hard to find these qualities. I have a unique suggestion that I believe can work great. Look at the college basket ball teams at the power forward positions. I know it may sound silly to you but when looking for the traits I mentioned above, watch the college game or even the NBA.:)
 

StarOfGlory

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Very few power forwards, even in the NBA, top 250. Guys like LeBron (6'8", 255) and Karl Malone (6'9", 260---like Too Tall Jones) are rare super-athletic guys, yet they have been conditioned to play basketball, not the constant explosive contact of football. Do you really think LeBron could handle 6'4", 300 lb Fletcher Cox? Tony Gonzales was a very good power forward in college--played for a team that knocked Villanova out of the NCAA tournament when he played--but TE is the perfect position for those types. Fleet of foot and great balance is not enough. Those traits must be combined with great strength. Look at the great LT's over the past few years just in the NFCE. Tyron and Peters are the prototype for that position.
 

rwalters31

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Very few power forwards, even in the NBA, top 250. Guys like LeBron (6'8", 255) and Karl Malone (6'9", 260---like Too Tall Jones) are rare super-athletic guys, yet they have been conditioned to play basketball, not the constant explosive contact of football. Do you really think LeBron could handle 6'4", 300 lb Fletcher Cox? Tony Gonzales was a very good power forward in college--played for a team that knocked Villanova out of the NCAA tournament when he played--but TE is the perfect position for those types. Fleet of foot and great balance is not enough. Those traits must be combined with great strength. Look at the great LT's over the past few years just in the NFCE. Tyron and Peters are the prototype for that position.
Good thoughts on the subject. Where do you see we should look if we are 8-8 and middle of the pack in the draft?
 

xwalker

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CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You can see that just being 300 lbs does not make you a NFL offensive lineman. The tackle position is the most important position beside QB on the offense. Yet, we see that if no speed at moving will get your QB killed. After years of watching NFL football and specifically the Cowboys, you need to look for the most athletic 280 to 300 lb players for tackle. Fleet of foot with great balance and has great hands for combat. After looking at the tackles coming out of college it is hard to find these qualities. I have a unique suggestion that I believe can work great. Look at the college basket ball teams at the power forward positions. I know it may sound silly to you but when looking for the traits I mentioned above, watch the college game or even the NBA.:)
They had the Greatest Of All Time basketball player turned OT but they wouldn't pay to keep him...
 

StarOfGlory

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Good thoughts on the subject. Where do you see we should look if we are 8-8 and middle of the pack in the draft?
Pretty much look in the same places. The NFL in general has a disadvantage compared to other sports when it comes to looking for specialized big bodies. There are a number of reasons for this:

1) The ideal LT and RT (for those lefty QB's) is around 310-335, height between 6'3"--6'6". Add to that quick, nimble feet and an explosive burst off the line for run blocking, gotten after years of specific weight training. As you can probably imagine, those people are outliers among the human race.

2) The NFL is very U.S.-specific--there are few athletes in other countries that play American football. The manpower pool is simply much smaller. Compare that to the NBA, which has a strong international following. Looking for quick-footed 6'10" and above people to play the center position, or be a tall stretch four (Dirk!!) is a daunting task, but the NBA has been able to tap into all of Europe and Africa to fill the void. The number of foreign-born players manning the center and PF positions in the NBA may surprise people. You don't find football players in the Cameroons, Serbia, Croatia, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine...you get the idea. What you do find are big men like Embiid, Porzingis, Gortat, Nurkic, Jokic, Saric, and many others who have the footwork that comes with a soccer background, a sport all those players player as kids. Embiid didn't start playing basketball until he was 16, but look at him. The transition to a lesser contact sport is easier for most people. MLB and the NHL also have strong overseas representation for some of the same reasons.

3) The demise of the super heavyweight division in high school and college wrestling has hurt a little bit. With the 285 LB weight cap, many 300+ pound guys who got great experience in how to use their hands and gain leverage don't get that anymore. Back in the day, quite a few linemen also wrestled in college or at least in high school. This is minor, but still there.

4) One could identify tall TE's already playing and see which ones have a frame big enough to support an extra 50 points without much loss of mobility. For example, both Philly tackles, Peters and Johnson, were TE's before tackles. Unlike college basketball players, they were already used to heavy contact.

5) Speaking of college, most schools do not want their prized athletes playing both sports. When I played football at Rutgers I wasn't allowed to play basketball as per the coach. Not that I would, because I sucked at basketball. This varies from school to school, but the tread is no more multi-sport athletes (except track and field and wrestling), at least at the D1 level. This effectively takes out basketball players who might want to keep playing football as well as basketball. No college basketball coach wants to see their nimble 6'7" 220 SF try to drag 300+ pounds up and down the court. Basketball and football rarely mix well.

6) College scouts are bemoaning the loss of the two-way lineman who can put their hands in the dirt as well as stand up on the edge. The college game does not always prepare linemen for life in the NFL.

The Tyron Smith, Jason Peters, Trent Williams, Joe Thomas-types are rare finds. How long have the Giants been looking for a top-5 LT? The best you can probably do is either hope the scouting department finds the right guy and have a good coaching staff teach that guy to play in the NFL, or find those TE-types who can make the leap to an extra 50 pounds, keep quickness, and play tackle.
 

DC Cowboy

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You can see that just being 300 lbs does not make you a NFL offensive lineman. The tackle position is the most important position beside QB on the offense. Yet, we see that if no speed at moving will get your QB killed. After years of watching NFL football and specifically the Cowboys, you need to look for the most athletic 280 to 300 lb players for tackle. Fleet of foot with great balance and has great hands for combat. After looking at the tackles coming out of college it is hard to find these qualities. I have a unique suggestion that I believe can work great. Look at the college basket ball teams at the power forward positions. I know it may sound silly to you but when looking for the traits I mentioned above, watch the college game or even the NBA.:)

hmmm are you suggesting we try Gathers? LOL
 

rwalters31

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Pretty much look in the same places. The NFL in general has a disadvantage compared to other sports when it comes to looking for specialized big bodies. There are a number of reasons for this:

1) The ideal LT and RT (for those lefty QB's) is around 310-335, height between 6'3"--6'6". Add to that quick, nimble feet and an explosive burst off the line for run blocking, gotten after years of specific weight training. As you can probably imagine, those people are outliers among the human race.

2) The NFL is very U.S.-specific--there are few athletes in other countries that play American football. The manpower pool is simply much smaller. Compare that to the NBA, which has a strong international following. Looking for quick-footed 6'10" and above people to play the center position, or be a tall stretch four (Dirk!!) is a daunting task, but the NBA has been able to tap into all of Europe and Africa to fill the void. The number of foreign-born players manning the center and PF positions in the NBA may surprise people. You don't find football players in the Cameroons, Serbia, Croatia, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine...you get the idea. What you do find are big men like Embiid, Porzingis, Gortat, Nurkic, Jokic, Saric, and many others who have the footwork that comes with a soccer background, a sport all those players player as kids. Embiid didn't start playing basketball until he was 16, but look at him. The transition to a lesser contact sport is easier for most people. MLB and the NHL also have strong overseas representation for some of the same reasons.

3) The demise of the super heavyweight division in high school and college wrestling has hurt a little bit. With the 285 LB weight cap, many 300+ pound guys who got great experience in how to use their hands and gain leverage don't get that anymore. Back in the day, quite a few linemen also wrestled in college or at least in high school. This is minor, but still there.

4) One could identify tall TE's already playing and see which ones have a frame big enough to support an extra 50 points without much loss of mobility. For example, both Philly tackles, Peters and Johnson, were TE's before tackles. Unlike college basketball players, they were already used to heavy contact.

5) Speaking of college, most schools do not want their prized athletes playing both sports. When I played football at Rutgers I wasn't allowed to play basketball as per the coach. Not that I would, because I sucked at basketball. This varies from school to school, but the tread is no more multi-sport athletes (except track and field and wrestling), at least at the D1 level. This effectively takes out basketball players who might want to keep playing football as well as basketball. No college basketball coach wants to see their nimble 6'7" 220 SF try to drag 300+ pounds up and down the court. Basketball and football rarely mix well.

6) College scouts are bemoaning the loss of the two-way lineman who can put their hands in the dirt as well as stand up on the edge. The college game does not always prepare linemen for life in the NFL.

The Tyron Smith, Jason Peters, Trent Williams, Joe Thomas-types are rare finds. How long have the Giants been looking for a top-5 LT? The best you can probably do is either hope the scouting department finds the right guy and have a good coaching staff teach that guy to play in the NFL, or find those TE-types who can make the leap to an extra 50 pounds, keep quickness, and play tackle.
Good analysis, what would you say is the solution for Thursday's game for LT and or help. If I was planning the game plan, I would make a weakest a strength. Who every is LT just keep the DE outside for just a short distance and run/pass to the inside. Same with a blitz on the left side. Run/pass at the blitzer. You know that the other team will go after the weak link, so use it.
 
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