Observations from an old-timer

[5Stars]

I agree with this, in general, and I don't mind the question, even asking it myself at times. I just try to take the overall approach that, as you said, the question is impossible to answer right away, so why get so upset about it? I'm not bashing anyone for questioning the way things are going, just hate to see people declare they are done being a fan of the team because a second round draft pick was not what they wanted or because people laughed at us about the trade, etc. I like to enjoy looking for how we improved, rather than dwelling on what we could have done to improve more. To each his own, of course.

I blame it on the "Madden Syndrome"...where most of these kids/grownups think they know more about the NFL than people actually in the NFL.

There are posters that talk in absolutes. "That player will never be good...that player is a bust from the get go...that player does not fit our team needs...that player is to slow...that player is irrelevant...and the list goes on and on and on as if those posters are all knowing about everything on the team.

But, there are some that know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

 

[9darter]

Understandably the level of analysis has improved over the years. I don't know why that is hard to grasp.

 

[CashMan]

I blame it on the "Madden Syndrome"...where most of these kids/grownups think they know more about the NFL than people actually in the NFL.

There are posters that talk in absolutes. "That player will never be good...that player is a bust from the get go...that player does not fit our team needs...that player is to slow...that player is irrelevant...and the list goes on and on and on as if those posters are all knowing about everything on the team.

But, there are some that know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

It is funny that you defend JJ. After Jimmy Johnson's influence(I would inclue the 1996 team), what exactly have the Jones' given us as Cowboys fans? You have this much faith in them, that you want to poke fun of people who question them.

 

[CashMan]

Understandably the level of analysis has improved over the years. I don't know why that is hard to grasp.

Totally agree....wink wink

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Are you guys typing this at Dennys?

 

[5Stars]

It is funny that you defend JJ. After Jimmy Johnson's influence(I would inclue the 1996 team), what exactly have the Jones' given us as Cowboys fans? You have this much faith in them, that you want to poke fun of people who question them.

I'm not talking about the posters that question them because I have questions about some of the decisions that the FO makes.

However, I will poke fun at the posters that talk in absolutes saying such an such don't fit the needs, or that player is going to be a bust, or that player is irrelevant...you know, things like that. The truth is, you, me, or anyone else just do not know right now.

Get it?

 

[5Stars]

Are you guys typing this at Dennys?

No...we are all at the Holiday Inn...where you can learn everything!!


:wink2:

 

[jobberone]

Nice post. On the nosey!

 

[CashMan]

I'm not talking about the posters that question them because I have questions about some of the decisions that the FO makes.

However, I will poke fun at the posters that talk in absolutes saying such an such don't fit the needs, or that player is going to be a bust, or that player is irrelevant...you know, things like that. The truth is, you, me, or anyone else just do not know right now.

Get it?

I get it.


I think with this draft, it wasn't that these are bad players, they just reached big time at the picks. I get the 2 TE set, but Garrett has never really been successful at it, and I am pretty sure, Murray doesn't really run well without a FB. All of these, are just baffling picks, it really is turning into Oakland, and Stephen seems more like a Jerry follower, rather than what we thought when TO was let go. I am really confident, people thought you could get Eifert, then get the C/G in the 2nd rd. Looking at what happened in the 2nd rd now, it is pretty obvious, that was a reality.

 

[5Stars]

I get it.


I think with this draft, it wasn't that these are bad players, they just reached big time at the picks. I get the 2 TE set, but Garrett has never really been successful at it, and I am pretty sure, Murray doesn't really run well without a FB. All of these, are just baffling picks, it really is turning into Oakland, and Stephen seems more like a Jerry follower, rather than what we thought when TO was let go. I am really confident, people thought you could get Eifert, then get the C/G in the 2nd rd. Looking at what happened in the 2nd rd now, it is pretty obvious, that was a reality.

20/20 is hindsight, bro.

 

[Doomsday]

Ever watch the movie money ball? You put together a roster to maximize value. It is the only way to work under the salary cap. It is why teams like Seattle, SF will be tough for awhile. They have a huge advantage in the cap by having cheap starting qb's that can no longer renegotiate. Dallas consistently overpays and underdrafts. It is why they are where they are.

Note what New England did? They traded out and got tremendous value for their pick.

If Dallas trades out of the first with the intention to draft Frederick. High probability that he is there with their second round pick. So they could trade their late first for a 2nd and 3rd this year or a potential high first next year etc................

And if you dont have a trade partner willing to give up a lot than you weigh the option of drafting at #18 vs taking the third and drafting at 31. I think they decided that Frederick would help them as much as any one there at 18 so they took the third and moved down.

I think they did the right thing, and the team is going to be improved because of it.

 

[CashMan]

And if you dont have a trade partner willing to give up a lot than you weigh the option of drafting at #18 vs taking the third and drafting at 31. I think they decided that Frederick would help them as much as any one there at 18 so they took the third and moved down.

I think they did the right thing, and the team is going to be improved because of it.

IMO, what will tell, if this was successful is the 1st and 3rd Dallas drafted with vs what Tyler Eifert and Floyd do(separately not combined).

 

[CowboyRoy]

As I've been reading through all the threads pertaining to the draft this year, I was struck by something that has really changed a lot in my lifetime.
Many years ago, before the draft had become a major media event, and before internet message boards, there were just two questions that mattered about the draft: Who did we draft, and will they make the team better?

I was always so excited to go find a copy of the Dallas Morning News or Dallas Times-Herald to read about our draft picks and dream about how we were now better at certain positions.

Fast forward to today. The draft itself seems to have become the focus for a lot of people. Instead of focusing on the player and whether he will help the team, it's all about did we get good value at the pick, was it a reach, did the experts have him ranked higher or lower than that pick, did we get good value for a trade according to the draft value chart, did we get a better draft grade than our rivals, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Don't get me wrong, I love seeing us net a bunch of extra picks in a trade as much as the next guy, but as I read all the threads, the recurring theme I kept seeing repeated a lot was, "Like the player, hate the pick." The feeling was that the players were good, but people could not enjoy getting him because of where he was picked, or whether he represented "value."

Guys, if the player can help us, he represents value in my mind. Now, if you can for a moment put aside all the draft winner/loser stuff, all the reach/bpa stuff, all the did we get value for the trade stuff, and just ask yourself the two tried and true questions above:
1. Who did we pick?
2. Will they make the team better?

We all know who we picked, so lets answer the second question: Will they make the team better? No one knows for sure, but based on what I've seen and read, the answer in my mind is "yes."

The coaches and fo have picked some players to help us immediately, and some to be significant contributors in the future (ie Escobar when father time finally starts to slow Witten down). If you don't look at whether we could have gotten the player later, could we have gotten some other pet cat at that spot, could we have gotten more picks, etc., and just boil it down to that question, "Will they make the team better," you'll find that so much of your anger, frustration, and anxiety will just melt away and you'll feel much better about the draft. Just my 2 cents.

None will make our team better this year but perhaps the center. And he will be a rookie lineman in the NFL so he will struggle.

The rest will all be backups this year and hardly sniff the field.

Asking will they help the team is completely over simplifying things.

The bottom line is that typically only guys in the first 3 rounds have any shot to HELP THE TEAM in the first year. But since the TE will be the 3rd string TE and the receiver will be the #4 receiver at best on our team, they wont help this year.

 

[muck4doo]

What kind of old timer are you? Nirvana "Smells Like Teen Spirit" old timer? Van Halen "Jump" old timer? "Carwash" old timer? Bob Dylan "Times They Are A Changing" old timer? I'm a "Carwash" type old timer myself. I can say I like all the extra observation I see now. I grew up in the Bay Area, and didn't get to read much about my Cowboys. Everything was Raiders, and then the 49ers after they started winning. I had to read Sports Illustrated or other magazines to try to get information. We had a subscription to Dallas Cowboys Weekly back then, and I would run to the mail box everyday hoping it would be there. Then I promptly went to the center looking for the cheer leader. I love what we have now. Never a such thing as too much information over load.

/So hot

 

[CowboysPhan]

None will make our team better this year but perhaps the center. And he will be a rookie lineman in the NFL so he will struggle.

The rest will all be backups this year and hardly sniff the field.

Asking will they help the team is completely over simplifying things.

The bottom line is that typically only guys in the first 3 rounds have any shot to HELP THE TEAM in the first year. But since the TE will be the 3rd string TE and the receiver will be the #4 receiver at best on our team, they wont help this year.

You may well be right, although I don't think we can know for sure what string the TE or WR will be until we see how things shake down in training camp. I could see the TE moving into the #2 role, for example. But to me, the point is not can they help THIS YEAR, but will they help at all. I think the draft is not all about this year, it's about the next few years. FA is more for the current year.

 

[Mansta54]

To the OP, OUTSTANDING POST. All that value crap is ridiculous! You nailed it, CAN THE PLAYER HELP THE TEAM AND MAKE THE TEAM BETTER. Nuff said!!!

 

[CowboysPhan]

What kind of old timer are you? Nirvana "Smells Like Teen Spirit" old timer? Van Halen "Jump" old timer? "Carwash" old timer? Bob Dylan "Times They Are A Changing" old timer? I'm a "Carwash" type old timer myself. I can say I like all the extra observation I see now. I grew up in the Bay Area, and didn't get to read much about my Cowboys. Everything was Raiders, and then the 49ers after they started winning. I had to read Sports Illustrated or other magazines to try to get information. We had a subscription to Dallas Cowboys Weekly back then, and I would run to the mail box everyday hoping it would be there. Then I promptly went to the center looking for the cheer leader. I love what we have now. Never a such thing as too much information over load.

/So hot

Haha, I definitely had the subscription to Dallas Cowboys Weekly, too! Used to re-read those things all the time. I'm not opposed to all the extra info available, in fact I love it, as is evidenced by the fact that I spend all my spare time lurking on this board. I just hate to see people getting so upset over the way a draft goes when the team may have just gotten some really nice players that can improve the team. And I'm more in the carwash generation myself, I guess. Started watching the team when I was about 6 years old in 1969.

 

[viman96]

Great post. I 100% agree. I have been thinking this entire draft that everyone is so hung up on value. I wanted to start a thread on it but could not put my thoughts into words like you did

 

[Ratmatt]

Well said, too many people get wrapped up in the pick value. Could they have gotten Fredrick in the 2nd round, possibly, but if he ends up being a good starter does it really matter?

Yeah!It does matter.If you could have gotten Frederick in the 2nd round,then you could have used the 1st rounder on something else.Not getting enough back in a trade,and reaching for players does matter.

 

[muck4doo]

Haha, I definitely had the subscription to Dallas Cowboys Weekly, too! Used to re-read those things all the time. I'm not opposed to all the extra info available, in fact I love it, as is evidenced by the fact that I spend all my spare time lurking on this board. I just hate to see people getting so upset over the way a draft goes when the team may have just gotten some really nice players that can improve the team. And I'm more in the carwash generation myself, I guess. Started watching the team when I was about 6 years old in 1969.

1977 was when I truly became a fan, and TD Tony was my first real hero. I loved Roger too, but Tony was my idol growing up. Later when I started PLAYING football Martin, White, and Walls became my heroes. Coaches had me on the line because i was big for my age, then stopped growing. Then found out i was a good cover guy. Slow, but always knew where the ball was going and reading the offense. Right place most the time, but still slow. Oh well.

I was mad after the first night, but think over all this draft went well. Filled holes we had, and gave us some nice depth. Can't wait till training camp. There are also free agents still available. I pushed the panic button Thursday night, but feel much better now.