Offense Lacks Speed

[Dodger]

...getting the ball down field with the lack of arm strength didn’t help either, Hell Kitna got the ball down field better than Romo....

How soon people forget...

This link refutes that claim: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2010.htm

So does this one:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_career.htm

Which active QBs have the highest career YPA?

Three are tied for the lead...and one of those guys is Romo. Our QB is also tied for 4th all time in YPA.

So, no, there's nothing wrong with Romo's arm.

 

[Stautner]

How soon people forget...

This link refutes that claim: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2010.htm

So does this one:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_career.htm

Which active QBs have the highest career YPA?

Three are tied for the lead...and one of those guys is Romo. Our QB is also tied for 4th all time in YPA.

So, no, there's nothing wrong with Romo's arm.

There is nothing wrong with either Kitna or Romo's arm. Neither is Elway or Moon in terms of arm strength, but neither has a problem with it either.

 

[sonnyboy]

Funny, I don't remember any of these guys blowing past people with no one able to run with them. Yeah, they all run well - similar to a DB with good speed. Dez has the extra element that he can out jump defenders, but I don't recall our WR's actually getting a big gap between them and a defender on a deep route.

Again, I don't think our speed is a problem, but the OP is correct that we don't have the Desean Jackson tupe guy that can leave DB's in the dust. It would be a nice added element to our offense, but not a necessity by any means.

I've seen plenty of it.

And the OP never said we lacked a Desean Jackson type player who is probably the fastest guy in the league.

He said we lack speed. To me that means we're below average or might have trouble beating the best do to our lack of speed.

Neither is the case. We have more than enough speed on offense.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

The O-Line is the biggest issue with your lack of ability to really stretch the field.

Dez and Miles are plenty of speed at WR and add to that Felix out of the backfield and there is more than enough speed on the team.

The problem is the QBs don't have the time to let the speed do it's thing cause the O-Line couldn't block a high school track team.

Dez is not fast. Miles is fast. Dez is quick. Desean jackson would have housed the screen against Giants. Maclin might as well. Harvin would have too. Dez got caught (although with a good angle) by 4.58 Kenny Phillips.

Dez is a beast. But is far from "fast"

 

[sonnyboy]

Dez is not fast. Miles is fast. Dez is quick. Desean jackson would have housed the screen against Giants. Maclin might as well. Harvin would have too. Dez got caught (although with a good angle) by 4.58 Kenny Phillips.

Dez is a beast. But is far from "fast"

From what I've seen, both Dez and Miles are fast and I'd have a hard time saying who was actually faster.

But fast is a relative term. Are our WR's as fast as DeSean? Of course not.

Can't speak to Harvin, but I've seen plenty of Maclin and he's not faster than Miles or Dez. But he is lighter in the backside.

To me a player like Crayton is someone I could point to as a WR lacking speed.
OK player. Did a lot of things real well. But I wouldn't want to rely on him starting like we had to in 2007 because of his lack of speed.

Dez and Miles are big strong guys. They break a lot of tackles and muscle well for the ball. They both have more speed and quickness than you normally find in players with their size and strength.


If you sent Dez, Miles and Jones to the combine to compete with the starting WRs and RB from the other 31 teams they'd do real well.]

Agility, quickness, speed. I'm guessing these three as a group would test out in the top quartile.

 

[ringmaster]

From what I've seen, both Dez and Miles are fast and I'd have a hard time saying who was actually faster.

But fast is a relative term. Are our WR's as fast as DeSean? Of course not.

Can't speak to Harvin, but I've seen plenty of Maclin and he's not faster than Miles or Dez. But he is lighter in the backside.

To me a player like Crayton is someone I could point to as a WR lacking speed.
OK player. Did a lot of things real well. But I wouldn't want to rely on him starting like we had to in 2007 because of his lack of speed.

Dez and Miles are big strong guys. They break a lot of tackles and muscle well for the ball. They both have more speed and quickness than you normally find in players with their size and strength.


If you sent Dez, Miles and Jones to the combine to compete with the starting WRs and RB from the other 31 teams they'd do real well.]

Agility, quickness, speed. I'm guessing these three as a group would test out in the top quartile.

Speed is a important prerequisite for WRs in particular but not the end all be all as we know.

Some of the best route running WRs weren't/aren't speed demons by any means: Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald, Torry Holt, ect what they didn't have in speed they had in perfecting their craft at running routes that is how any WR can get open and to me that is a lost art nowadays.

DeSean Jackson, and Mike Wallace are two of the most fastest WRs in the league at catching the deep pass, and YAC on the short stuff but that is about all there is to them.

You will never see DeSean Jackson, or Mike Wallace run a "Bang 8" route as Michael Irvin called it that made the 90s Cowboys offense so special because they'll get their heads knocked off DeSean nearly got his knocked off earlier in the season most speed WRs fear going over the middle so running a 9 route is what they're comfortable with most of the time.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

From what I've seen, both Dez and Miles are fast and I'd have a hard time saying who was actually faster.

But fast is a relative term. Are our WR's as fast as DeSean? Of course not.

Can't speak to Harvin, but I've seen plenty of Maclin and he's not faster than Miles or Dez. But he is lighter in the backside.

To me a player like Crayton is someone I could point to as a WR lacking speed.
OK player. Did a lot of things real well. But I wouldn't want to rely on him starting like we had to in 2007 because of his lack of speed.

Dez and Miles are big strong guys. They break a lot of tackles and muscle well for the ball. They both have more speed and quickness than you normally find in players with their size and strength.


If you sent Dez, Miles and Jones to the combine to compete with the starting WRs and RB from the other 31 teams they'd do real well.]

Agility, quickness, speed. I'm guessing these three as a group would test out in the top quartile.

Miles would leave Dez in the dust. Not even close. And Dez is my favorite player. Doesnt mean Dez isn't a beast. He is. Very physical player, accelerates to top speed quickly. But his top end is very 4.5.

 

[sonnyboy]

Miles would leave Dez in the dust. Not even close. And Dez is my favorite player. Doesnt mean Dez isn't a beast. He is. Very physical player, accelerates to top speed quickly. But his top end is very 4.5.

We'll just have to agree to............. agree that I'm right.


I see them as very similar players in this and a lot of other things. To me, they are both fast. But they're both perhaps quicker than they are fast.

But that doesn't take away from the speed. I still see them streaking across and down the field at a pace that gives me the impression they are real fast.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

we lack little quick guys and sometimes that looks like speed but in a footrace we have several that would outrun the Welkers of the NFL

 

[Stautner]

I've seen plenty of it.

And the OP never said we lacked a Desean Jackson type player who is probably the fastest guy in the league.

He said we lack speed. To me that means we're below average or might have trouble beating the best do to our lack of speed.

Neither is the case. We have more than enough speed on offense.

I never said we didn't have enough speed, and in fact have said that it isn't a problem area for us.

I do, however, wonder how I could be missing all of these times our WR are getting significant seperation on deep routes. Sorry, I just don't see it. They may ocassiobnally get a step, or Dez may outjump somebody, but I don't recall seeing much more than that.

As for the OP, I may be wrong, but I thought he was talking bout needing true top end speed, not Dez/Miles speed which, though good, isn't what makes them dangerous.

I just think the OP is overrating how necessary a guy with that kind of elite speed is. Having a guy like that is a luxury, not a necessity.

we lack little quick guys and sometimes that looks like speed but in a footrace we have several that would outrun the Welkers of the NFL

I'm not sure saying they can outrun the Welkers of the world is that much of a compliment. Welker is an underneath posession guy who works as a compliment to someone who is more of a downfield threat.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

Let's get an O-line that doesn't have Davis and Columbo starting on it, and I guarantee you see us throwing downfield more. We spend most of this year calling plays based on knowing our O-line wouldn't hold up, so you weren't seeing Miles run past guys because guess what, he wasn't running a bunch of fly routes, or sluggos.

If we had run them, the QB would've been sacked before the play developed anyway.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Unfair point.

First, the OP didn't suggest Dez was slow, so you have no point.

Second, Kelvin Martin was a quality punt returner without great speed. The key is to find a seam, and with the potential tacklers all having their momentem going the opposite direction the return man is gonig, if he can find a seam and blow through it he doesn't have to have elite speed to be effective.

If you're not getting caught from behind, you're not lacking speed.

Seriously, this topic is beyond dumb.

 

[Stautner]

If you're not getting caught from behind, you're not lacking speed.

Seriously, this topic is beyond dumb.

Huh? What did that have to do with what i said? Where exactly have I said Dez is lacking speed? I have only said he doesn't have elite speed, which is really not debateable, and I have repeatedly said that I don't see our team speed as a problem.

Are you talking about punt returns? That's whole different animal than at WR. CB's are running the same way you are, and on punt returns defenders have a 40 yard full speed head of steam running the opposite way from teh ball carrieer, meaning if the ball carrier breaks through they have to stop, turn around and start running back the other direction before they can even start to chase from behind. Momentunm is a funny thing - some people even study it in school. Again, you need good speed, which I've said all along Dez has, but finding a seam is the biggest key to punt returns, and whatever level of speed you have is a bonus above that.

All I have tried to dispel the notion that some have put forth that we have true burners on the team. I just want the discussion to be fair. I disagree with those who think team speed is a problem for us, but the truth is we don't have elite speed either. I just don't think it's necessary to have elite speed to be successful.

 

[baj1dallas]

I'm with you, Goshan.

Sure, Miles and Dez have the ability to get open and make big plays, but I'm talking about the slot WR who will make the tough catches over the middle, gain great separation and stretch defenses by running great routes. Dez and Austin don't really get great separation at times, and Roy needs no introduction.

That has NOTHING to do with speed. That's all quickness and cutting ability.

 

[baj1dallas]

All I have tried to dispel the notion that some have put forth that we have true burners on the team. I just want the discussion to be fair. I disagree with those who think team speed is a problem for us, but the truth is we don't have elite speed either. I just don't think it's necessary to have elite speed to be successful.

Do the Packers have a true burner? Colts or Patriots or Ravens?

 

[Stautner]

Do the Packers have a true burner? Colts or Patriots or Ravens?

Not that I'm aware of off the top of my head. And ...?

 

[DallasEast]

If you're not getting caught from behind, you're not lacking speed.

Seriously, this topic is beyond dumb.

It is not so much dumb as it is strange. The current wide receiver corps has the necessary speed to stretch defenses. That's all that this or any other NFL offense requires. While it wouldn't hurt adding a similar player, this offense does not need a DeSean Jackson to supplement it.

 

[Trace1015]

Ok...Let me clear things up because I was unclear. First off I love our Receivers they are great but there top end speed not so much what i want is a sub 4.4 guy in the slot who scares defenders to compliment our big recievers...and the people who say Dez and Miles are fast sorry they are quick not fast and miles is just a great route runner while dez has all the quick moves neither is a burner by any means get me a mike wallace type of guy in the slot who runs past defenders to go with our receivers and we have a even more lethal offense

 

[DallasEast]

Ok...Let me clear things up because I was unclear. First off I love our Receivers they are great but there top end speed not so much what i want is a sub 4.4 guy in the slot who scares defenders to compliment our big recievers...and the people who say Dez and Miles are fast sorry they are quick not fast and miles is just a great route runner while dez has all the quick moves neither is a burner by any means get me a mike wallace type of guy in the slot who runs past defenders to go with our receivers and we have a even more lethal offense

I'm still reading the same initial opinion.

 

[Stautner]

It is not so much dumb as it is strange. The current wide receiver corps has the necessary speed to stretch defenses. That's all that this or any other NFL offense requires. While it wouldn't hurt adding a similar player, this offense does not need a DeSean Jackson to supplement it.

Having a Desean type (without the ******* mentality) as a supplement/complement would be great, but it certainly isn't necessary. Like I said before, more of a luxury than a need, and history has clearly proven it isn't a requirement for success.

Ok...Let me clear things up because I was unclear. First off I love our Receivers they are great but there top end speed not so much what i want is a sub 4.4 guy in the slot who scares defenders to compliment our big recievers...and the people who say Dez and Miles are fast sorry they are quick not fast and miles is just a great route runner while dez has all the quick moves neither is a burner by any means get me a mike wallace type of guy in the slot who runs past defenders to go with our receivers and we have a even more lethal offense

Again, a benefit that would be nice, but a luxury, not a need. We can clearly have plenty of success with guys like Dez and Miles, and shoring up the O-line is infinitely more important. O-line is the only real "need" I see with our offense.