Offensive Line Analysis

[Phil03]

Hey guys,
I wrote an analysis of the Cowboys offensive line as I did last year for my website: http://www.ultimateffstrategy.com/2009_OLine/dallas_cowboys.htm

Feel free to post any comments, suggestions or corrections I should make to my article.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[burmafrd]

You do know that for OL the prime years are 28-32. With the exception of the Hotel, all our O linemen should be in their prime for at least a couple more years. This age thing is only for those ignorant of the facts.
Not to mention that there are a lot of examples of 35, 36 year old guys that still play very well indeed.

 

[Typhus]

You do know that for OL the prime years are 28-32. With the exception of the Hotel, all our O linemen should be in their prime for at least a couple more years. This age thing is only for those ignorant of the facts.
Not to mention that there are a lot of examples of 35, 36 year old guys that still play very well indeed.

Agreed, although it would be a bonus to start seeing Free, McQ, one of the UDFA's, or Brewster, show they can play at this level this TC.

The true value in this OL is the chemistry within this group. They may all be in their 30s, but with that comes the fact that they have all played together for some time now. You normally wont see that on a line full of 25 yr olds.

After Stepnosky left, this OL had a center that was over 40 I believe, in Ray Donaldson.

People get caught up in always being young at every position, and thats great if your loaded with high draft picks and have alot of cap to get it done.

Hudson has a pretty savy group to work with again this season, and another year together is a positive, not a negative.

 

[Phil03]

You do know that for OL the prime years are 28-32. With the exception of the Hotel, all our O linemen should be in their prime for at least a couple more years. This age thing is only for those ignorant of the facts.
Not to mention that there are a lot of examples of 35, 36 year old guys that still play very well indeed.

I disagree, I think he prime for o-linemen is 26 to 29 and there are very few that are effective after 33 or 34.
Yes there are some exceptions like Tom Nalen and Jeff Saturday but even a guy like Orlando Pace who was healthy and dominant all his career started slowing down at 31.

I guess it's just a difference of opinion but I'd be curious to know who the 35-36 year olds that play well are? At center yes but at guard and tackle there are very few I think.

 

[Typhus]

I disagree, I think he prime for o-linemen is 26 to 29 and there are very few that are effective after 33 or 34.
Yes there are some exceptions like Tom Nalen and Jeff Saturday but even a guy like Orlando Pace who was healthy and dominant all his career started slowing down at 31.

I guess it's just a difference of opinion but I'd be curious to know who the 35-36 year olds that play well are? At center yes but at guard and tackle there are very few I think.

Most of your Pro Bowl OL are over the age of 30.

Walter Jones 35
Jeff Saturday 34
Jonathan Ogden 34
Flo Adams 34
Alan Faneca 32
Chad Clifton 32
Matt Birk 32
Steve Hutchinson 31
Leonard Davis 30
Matt Light 30

 

[Alexander]

I guess it's just a difference of opinion but I'd be curious to know who the 35-36 year olds that play well are? At center yes but at guard and tackle there are very few I think.

Overall, you are correct. It is rare to have 35-36 year olds playing tackle that can still do it well. Most start breaking down after their thirties. That would make many of these players have eleven and twelve years of service.
A player like Jonathan Ogden for example was still "elite" when he hung it up, but we are talking a true all-time great.

Every now and again, you get a Lomas Brown who can play into their late thirties, but more often you see players like Orlando Pace, who are around that age but need to be backups to make it further. Then you have others like Willie Roaf, who decide to retire in their early thirties. Tackle is certainly not the position where you see that kind of longevity.

 

[Alexander]

Most of your Pro Bowl OL are over the age of 30.

Walter Jones 35
Jeff Saturday 34
Jonathan Ogden 34
Flo Adams 34
Alan Faneca 32
Chad Clifton 32
Matt Birk 32
Steve Hutchinson 31
Leonard Davis 30
Matt Light 30

And where are these lots of examples of 35 and 36 year olds that play well?

If you see a 35 year old Pro Bowler, they are at the end of the line. If they go further, you are talking a true great like Walter Jones. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that Flozell Adams won't be a quality LT in a couple of years.

 

[Typhus]

Where did you get that I was disagreeing with that fact?

I was just pointing out that the majority of OL elected to the Pro Bowl were nearly all over the age of 30.

Its rare to see any player at any position playing at a Pro Bowl level at 35 - 36.

 

[Phil03]

Most of your Pro Bowl OL are over the age of 30.

Walter Jones 35
Jeff Saturday 34
Jonathan Ogden 34
Flo Adams 34
Alan Faneca 32
Chad Clifton 32
Matt Birk 32
Steve Hutchinson 31
Leonard Davis 30
Matt Light 30

How many of those truly made the Pro Bowl because they were the best offensive linemen in the NFL though? Pro Bowl for offensive linemen is very often based on reputation.

Even if you look at those names, how many of those are better now than they were when they were 29? I know Jones, Ogden, Faneca and Hutchinson aren't. Most of you would agree Adams was much better a few years ago and Davis was better in 2007 than in 2008.

In my opinion prime years are 26 to 29, 30 to 32 becomes a "danger zone" where they get hurt more often and start slowing down and only a few exceptions are effective after the age of 33.

 

[Alexander]

Where did you get that I was disagreeing with that fact?

I was just pointing out that the majority of OL elected to the Pro Bowl were nearly all over the age of 30.

Its rare to see any player at any position playing at a Pro Bowl level at 35 - 36.

The disagreement wasn't directed at you but rather at burmafrd's assertion that he made above.

 

[Typhus]

How many of those truly made the Pro Bowl because they were the best offensive linemen in the NFL though? Pro Bowl for offensive linemen is very often based on reputation.

Even if you look at those names, how many of those are better now than they were when they were 29? I know Jones, Ogden, Faneca and Hutchinson aren't. Most of you would agree Adams was much better a few years ago and Davis was better in 2007 than in 2008.

In my opinion prime years are 26 to 29, 30 to 32 becomes a "danger zone" where they get hurt more often and start slowing down and only a few exceptions are effective after the age of 33.

But cant you see that Im having a very difficult time with this subject!:bang2:

I was happy before this post while living in denial, that the age of this OL was acceptable, since that translates to more chemistry!
:blind:

 

[CATCH17]

I disagree, I think he prime for o-linemen is 26 to 29 and there are very few that are effective after 33 or 34.
Yes there are some exceptions like Tom Nalen and Jeff Saturday but even a guy like Orlando Pace who was healthy and dominant all his career started slowing down at 31.

I guess it's just a difference of opinion but I'd be curious to know who the 35-36 year olds that play well are? At center yes but at guard and tackle there are very few I think.

You would be wrong.

OLinemen can still play at a high level well into their 30's.

I wouldn't even start worrying about it until they start hitting 33 or 34. Even then it still may not be a big concern.

Runningback may be the only position that when you hit 30 the percentages of your career lasting much longer go way down.

 

[burmafrd]

I really find it hard to believe that something so well established is being argued about. O Line requires real good chemistry and experience to do it well consistently. Its noteable that even players real good as Rookies like Joe Thomas quite often have tougher sophomore years. It takes 3-4 years of starting to really get the necessary experience and knowledge to be consistently good or great. since most O linemen do not come out early, and many had redshirt years in college, its rare to get many that are younger then 22 when they start in the pros. So add 4 years of STARTING (and not many start in their rookie years) you start getting to 26 to 27.
THAT is why the prime STARTS at 28 or so. Well conditioned O linemen that take care of themselves can play well into the middle thirties at a high level.
As long as your line is around 28-32 average then you are in fine shape.
AS I POINTED OUT only the Hotel is above that line. EVERY other starter has AT LEAST 2 more years of their prime left and SEVERAL more years of high quality play (baring injury of course).

 

[Phil03]

You would be wrong.

OLinemen can still play at a high level well into their 30's.

I wouldn't even start worrying about it until they start hitting 33 or 34. Even then it still may not be a big concern.

Runningback may be the only position that when you hit 30 the percentages of your career lasting much longer go way down.

Ogden only played 16 games in a season once after the age of 30
Pace only played 16 games in a season once after the age of 30
Anderson only played 16 games in a season twice after the age of 30

None of them were successful at 33 or 34 and these are 3 of the best all-time. yes there are exceptions like Walter Jones but he just had knee surgery at 35 and he doesn't have many years left in the NFL either.

 

[burmafrd]

do some research before you embarrass yourself even further.

PIcking 3 out of hundreds does nothing for your credibility.

 

[BAT]

Back to your article_nice stats. Couple of fyi's, McQ has been moved to backup OG and the rook, Brewster, is the backup at RT.


I also believe that Holland is getting reps at center.

 

[Phil03]

do some research before you embarrass yourself even further.

PIcking 3 out of hundreds does nothing for your credibility.

I'm just telling you the way I see it and giving you examples I've found.
If you have a number of examples of linemen who were successful at 34 years old or were as good at 32 than they were at 29 then post them and I might change my mind. The only exceptions I found so far are centers and very few at tackle and guard...

 

[Phil03]

Back to your article_nice stats. Couple of fyi's, McQ has been moved to backup OG and the rook, Brewster, is the backup at RT.


I also believe that Holland is getting reps at center.

Thanks, I'll make the adjustments

 

[Alexander]

As long as your line is around 28-32 average then you are in fine shape.

Yes, but you can't count on more than three years at most before age is an issue. All of our starters are hitting that point where they could taper off and I believe that was the point of the article talking about their collective ages.

It is worse that we simply don't have proven younger players who have shown they are ready to step up. That's one of the reasons why it was disappointing we came out of this draft with one OL among the twelve players selected.

Adams has at most two years left. I would even wager this is the last season we see him at a quality level. Kosier is breaking down and might not make it all the way back if his foot keeps acting up. Gurode and Davis probably have three years tops. Colombo might have a couple.

It is a legitimate concern. If more than one or two of these players are still playing at a high level three years from now, its a huge victory, but it should not be expected.

AS I POINTED OUT only the Hotel is above that line. EVERY other starter has AT LEAST 2 more years of their prime left and SEVERAL more years of high quality play (baring injury of course).

It is not really their prime anymore if they only have two years of high quality left. That means they are heading down and it will only get worse with each year.

 

[BAT]

Another thought, if all the whispers about Kosier being the guy making the line calls, will he also get reps at center when his foot heals? Makes more sense than having Holland, a newbie to this scheme, getting reps IMO.