Officially on the anti-zimmer bandwagon

[Chuck 54]

You must consider 'top teams' to be teams not at the top of the standings. Even tho the Bears blitz more than others but heres a list of teams that dont blitz a lot: Giants, Vikings, Hawks, Patriots, Ravens, Jacksonville, and the Broncos. The Broncos most noticeabley stated that it wasnt until they stopped blitzing that their defense shored up.

Bottomline is that a good offense will kill a blitzing defense every time. Manning makes a living off of it and even the granddaddy of all blitzing defenses, the 85 Bears, had their Miami Dolphins.

Keep trying tho.

Come on Fuzzy...you're talking philosophically...but look at the reality...some of those teams bring pressure with their front 3-4....the Giants and their new found success on defense in the past two games has involved a lot of stunts and extra action...it sounds good, but our defense hasn't shown me even once that it can bring pressure without the blitz...you can blitz some LB's, which puts your base guys in better positions to get a rush without really risking much...that's what we did last night...when you blitz your safeties or blitz your corners and cover guys with your safeties, that's when you're asking for trouble.

When we play INdy, we had better not just sit in our base defense...SD showed last year that the blueprint for beating them is pressure, but the pressure has to get there, and the secondary has to hold up...I think our secondary is better than most, which is why I want to see us bring more action, even if it's just bring Ellis and Ware more often.

 

[Stautner]

that's an accurate history lesson, but the fact is that we don't get any pressure without the blitz...period....we didn't even get any pressure from Ware for most of the game...we should play more like the top teams...bring pressure every key down, even if it's just a run blitz.

Blitizing more on key downs also means risking more exposure to big plays on key downs.

I too am concerned about the lack of pressure we are getting on the QB, but one thing that should be learned from your comment about not getting pressure from Ware for most of the game is that we just don't really have high quality pass rushing personnel. Blitzing can only go so far in covering that, and if you blitz with players that aren't good at it then the risk of being burned on big plays is even greater.

 

[Chuck 54]

You must consider 'top teams' to be teams not at the top of the standings. Even tho the Bears blitz more than others but heres a list of teams that dont blitz a lot: Giants, Vikings, Hawks, Patriots, Ravens, Jacksonville, and the Broncos. The Broncos most noticeabley stated that it wasnt until they stopped blitzing that their defense shored up.

Bottomline is that a good offense will kill a blitzing defense every time. Manning makes a living off of it and even the granddaddy of all blitzing defenses, the 85 Bears, had their Miami Dolphins.

Keep trying tho.

Look how many points manning put up against the unquestionably best "bend but don't break" team this year...Broncos. He may beat you no matter what you do, but he's definitely going to beat you if you don't bring pressure....SD was the only team to beat them in how long now??? And we know how they did it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I give up...my own thread is frustrating me.

People are arguing things that have nothing to do with the question I posed...only 3-4 people even addressed it.

I can accept the proposition that it's Parcells fault we don't pressure more, maybe Zimmer wants to and Parcells holds him back...that could be, I'll never know because I'm not there.

Everyone else is arguing how great the defense played and the wonderful win....Yes, it was a wonderful win...I said that myself. But guys, that game, even though Romo played better than anyone could hope for, that game hinged on 1. Keyshuan dropping an easy td pass that would have given them a big lead (7 pts off their score); 2. the fumble on the kick return (pts. for us; 3. the Roy int. (pts. for us)...We dominated the time of possession and the game, but hear my point and question one more time:

Delhomme had plenty of time in the pocket until we had the lead....he had receivers dropping easy passes, rb's dropped at least 3 easy first down passes with plenty of room to run....they could have had an insurmountable lead when you consider that was only the 2nd time in all the years BP has coached that his team has ever come back from a 14 pt. deficit. I find that a shocking, though unimportant stat.

All I want to know is this: If our team can totally wreck havoc with an offense when we have the lead, create sacks, rush bad passes, cause fumbles, intercept passes, and force punts....then why the heck don't we turn them loose more often?

You're not going to tell me it's because we have to be careful early...come on...that's lame...you aren't foolish enough to think we didn't have the safeties back during those blitzes in the 4th quarter, do you? Like we're going to risk giving up an easy TD when we have a lead?...no way. IN the fourth quarter, we turned it loose, we ran some creative stuff, we brought the heat, and it wasn't with the front 3 or the 3 + Ware...we brought Ellis and inside backers too.

Parcells finally set the offense free, and it worked out pretty well....I think it's time to set the defense free and let Zimmer bring the type of pressure that creates easy opportunities and good field position for the offense...and bring it early.

You still have to stop the run. Did you see Indy's defense release the hounds yesterday. Mike Bell had at least 4 runs of 15+ yards.

Fact is that coverage schemes have had the most success for the past 12 years. Fact is that the blitzing attack scheme is not seeing any success in the league this year. Thge Commanders Eagles and Steelers are allbad to mediocre.

 

[superpunk]

Blitizing more on key downs also means risking more exposure to big plays on key downs.

I too am concerned about the lack of pressure we are getting on the QB, but one thing that should be learned from your comment about not getting pressure from Ware for most of the game is that we just don't really have high quality pass rushing personnel. Blitzing can only go so far in covering that, and if you blitz with players that aren't good at it then the risk of being burned on big plays is even greater.

That's true enough. Our front seven appears built to stop the run, and they're darn good at it. Our down linemen in our base set are not particularly efficient at getting pressure, and so far, our LBs have been a pretty big disappointment, after we thought they'd be the definite strength of the team. The good news, I think, is that teams seem to max-protect alot more against us, leaving our secondary able to cover up if they're able. We've had some problems there....and that makes the lack of pressure painful.

Ideally we get the pressure from four or five tops. People like to point to SD, not taking into account that Jamal Williams requires AT MINIMUM two blockers every time the ball is snapped. Noone else in the league has that advantage.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Look how many points he put up against the unquestionably best "bend but don't break" team this year...Broncos. He may beat you no matter what you do, but he's definitely going to beat you if you don't bring pressure....SD was the only team to beat them in how long now??? And we know how they did it.

Yeah thats why the Patriots who run the same system as us have Mannings number year after year.

 

[Chuck 54]

Blitizing more on key downs also means risking more exposure to big plays on key downs.

I too am concerned about the lack of pressure we are getting on the QB, but one thing that should be learned from your comment about not getting pressure from Ware for most of the game is that we just don't really have high quality pass rushing personnel. Blitzing can only go so far in covering that, and if you blitz with players that aren't good at it then the risk of being burned on big plays is even greater.

But we're not risking much when we have the lead...that would be the all time stupidest time to risk letting a team get back in it on one play...we were covering the big play while we blitzed the LB's last night in the 4th.

I don't need to see Roy or the FS blitz...I sure as heck don't want to see the CB blitz, leaving the S in man coverage any more....but we were surely playing against giving up the big play last night when we had the lead, right? So do more of what we were doing...move guys around, bring backers from unusual spots, bring 5 guys from time to time...if it works protecting the lead so well, why wouldn't it work earlier in the game?

 

[Chuck 54]

Yeah thats why the Patriots who run the same system as us have Mannings number year after year.

And i really hope they have his number this year ....I'd love that.

I just don't think that's our team...we seem to destroy teams this year when playing with a lead...I just think a little more of that a little earlier in key situations can't hurt...if what we did last night could totally destroy the Carolina offense without risking an easy TD, and I'm assuming we weren't that stupid, though on tv you never get to see the whole field, then I'd like to see more of it.

 

[Clove]

This isn't the week to bash Zimmer.

 

[wileedog]

if it works protecting the lead so well, why wouldn't it work earlier in the game?

IIRC, didn't we rush 6 the first play of the game?

 

[scottsp]

The same is true of this defense today as it was last week: This defense is pretty good, but certainly not one of the league's more dominant units. Last night, we did a much better job of getting to the football and tackling.

We also caught some breaks. But you pretty much have to in order to win in that environment.

This defense definitely has some holes and is vulnerable to an offense that can adequately protect and/or run the football effectively. The Panthers posed absolutely no threat on the ground and that helped.

Our safety play has been suspect in some games this season. I don't know the number, but there seems to be too many big plays surrendered.

It was great to see some of that change last night in Charlotte. Consistency is something this unit should work towards. Nothing would make me happier than to see this continue.

 

[dwmyers]

On 3rd and 10 the best way to stop a first down is to rush 3 or 4. The worst way to do it is a maximum blitz. The more you rush, the more your chances to prevent a first down go down. It's a proven fact, and you can buy your own copy of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and read the facts yourselves.

Most of the teams you guys whine about being constant blitz teams (Pittsburgh being example #1) rarely if ever blitz.

About once every 10-15 years you get a team that is so physically dominant that they crush people on defense. But are you guys willing to lose for 10 straight years to draft that kind of talent? That's how the Bears did it. That's how the Ravens did it. And how long did they last?

:bang2:

David.

 

[Chuck 54]

IIRC, didn't we rush 6 the first play of the game?

I have no idea...I don't even remember the first play...lol.

 

[Chuck 54]

ON a sidenote, did it appear to you guys that last night was the first time all year that our kicking team seemed to have had someone put a firecracker up their butts...wow...they were busting the wedge, diving into tackles, and even on the last one, while the announcers didn't mention it, Burnett left their 2nd returner of the night laying on the ground as they talked about other things....I loved our kickoff team for the first team all year...didn't even look like the same guys.

 

[Chuck 54]

On 3rd and 10 the best way to stop a first down is to rush 3 or 4. The worst way to do it is a maximum blitz. The more you rush, the more your chances to prevent a first down go down. It's a proven fact, and you can buy your own copy of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 and read the facts yourselves.

Most of the teams you guys whine about being constant blitz teams (Pittsburgh being example #1) rarely if ever blitz.

About once every 10-15 years you get a team that is so physically dominant that they crush people on defense. But are you guys willing to lose for 10 straight years to draft that kind of talent? That's how the Bears did it. That's how the Ravens did it. And how long did they last?

:bang2:

David.

So why did we blitz on all those downs in the 4th quarter last night, even when we only had a 7 point lead? Are our coaches that stupid? Don't they know the stats?

 

[Doomsday101]

So why did we blitz on all those downs in the 4th quarter last night, even when we only had a 7 point lead? Are our coaches that stupid? Don't they know the stats?

The threat of run was much less. Also the Cowboys were not going to put ourself into many 1 on 1 with Steve Smith, if Carolina was going to score they were going to do so by driving the lenght of the field not 1 shot.

 

[koolaid]

Are you serious?
we have the #4 defense in the NFL and you are complaining about zimmer?!
I guess you want what washington has, with all those fancy blitzes - Oh wait.... they are the 7th WORST defense in the nfl..

And for all the complaints of being vanilla, we blitzed our fair share last night, and we also didnt give up the big play on D.

 

[Chuck 54]

Are you serious?
we have the #4 defense in the NFL and you are complaining about zimmer?!
I guess you want what washington has, with all those fancy blitzes - Oh wait.... they are the 7th WORST defense in the nfl..

And for all the complaints of being vanilla, we blitzed our fair share last night, and we also didnt give up the big play on D.

exactly...you found me out...that's what I want...wonder if we could trade the defenses straight up....hmmm.

We learned a long time ago with the #1 defense almost all year for a team that didn't make the playoffs...those stats are for losers...we've lost 3 games, and the only time we pressure QB's is when we bring the LB's...What most of you aren't bothering to read is that those of us who want to bring that 4th quarter pressure more often are not calling for bringing anyone in the secondary....we want to see Ware and Ellis or Ellis and 1 inside backer coming more often....obvious passing downs, bring Ellis and someone else...bring 5 total and leave Ware in coverage since he's not consistant anyway...bringing Ware should be a surprise sack...bringing Ellis should be a staple.

I also don't see why some of you guys want to compare the Cowboys to blitzing teams who basically suck in the secondary...we have one of the stronger secondaries as long as we don't blitz corners and put our safeties in man coverage...from what I saw last night, we learned our lesson on that one.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Okay...I give up...I'm finally in the group that thinks he has to go or get more direction from somewhere. Thoughts?

Good for you! While you're at it, why don't you start the IHSAC (I HATE SPEARS AND CANTY) movement? You can start with petitions, hate mail, and picketing at the Ranch. Maybe then those two will find some motivation to get to the QB without some elaborate blitz scheme.

 

[koolaid]

I think some of us should start a GROGROZ movement

i like the way you think