OL gurus please help

Rockport said:
He’s a rookie. It’s 1 game. Get a grip....
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Get a grip? Get some context. I’m not the one bashing Williams all over the site,I like the kid and think posters are trashing him way too much. I’m just pointing out he’s an athlete,and they need a Leary on the line. I’ve already stated when they drafted him he’s gonna need some time. I’m not concerned about Williams,I’m concerned about the depth,I’m concerned about the health of certain players,and the need for some punch added to the line. But Williams? No...don’t need to get a grip,
 
Number1 said:
over the last 9 games (beginning with ATL) they have yielded 29 sacks ... that would suggest Dak is looking at 50 sack season in 2018

in 2016 Zeke averaged 5.1 ypc, since then only 1 game above 5.0

the stats above are probably why we have a new OL coach (can't remember his name)
then 6 sacks to open his coaching career in DAL

I'm not an OL guy - I can tell you all about passing schemes ... how to cover / how to beat coverage, try me any time - tactically or strategically - I know passing games

if there are any OL gurus in the house please explain a few things for us

it's near 5 months since Conner was drafted to play LG, why hasn't he powered up? is he maxed out?
that just seems weird (to put it nicely)

IMO, Collins played slightly better than Doug Free last year, and last game: will he ever be above average?

Looney looked ok in protection (to me), but couldn't make a combo block on the 2nd level
is he a viable long term option at C?

and can anybody explain to me how Chaz, and now Fleming (when last seen), just seem to have forgotten how to play the game? is that coaching? brain lock? just don't care? a new drug? ... what?
again - weird (to put it nicely)

moreover, what are the odds the unit get better quick?
Click to expand...

It's not the talent, it's the gameplan. Tell me, do we even know what the Cowboys were trying to do out there on offense? They were all over the place. It reminded me of sandlot football where the QB just got the snap and waited for someone to break open.

Take the Rams for example. They have a really good RB and a QB I think is similar to Dak. They ran a single setback formation with 1 TE from under center. The placement of the 3 WRs varied. They ran play action from this and held up the linebackers long enough for the WRs to beat their coverage. This doesn't even require Goff to hold the ball that long. Then after enough of that the LBs start to cheat and Gurley runs through the line. There is nothing complicated about this and it plays to their strengths.

Keep in mind it is harder to pass block when the defense knows you're passing. Our offense leaves no doubt as to what we're doing run or pass. It was hard to watch in 2017 and it has gotten worse this year.
 
Number1 said:
over the last 9 games (beginning with ATL) they have yielded 29 sacks ... that would suggest Dak is looking at 50 sack season in 2018

in 2016 Zeke averaged 5.1 ypc, since then only 1 game above 5.0

the stats above are probably why we have a new OL coach (can't remember his name)
then 6 sacks to open his coaching career in DAL

I'm not an OL guy - I can tell you all about passing schemes ... how to cover / how to beat coverage, try me any time - tactically or strategically - I know passing games

if there are any OL gurus in the house please explain a few things for us

it's near 5 months since Conner was drafted to play LG, why hasn't he powered up? is he maxed out?
that just seems weird (to put it nicely)

IMO, Collins played slightly better than Doug Free last year, and last game: will he ever be above average?

Looney looked ok in protection (to me), but couldn't make a combo block on the 2nd level
is he a viable long term option at C?

and can anybody explain to me how Chaz, and now Fleming (when last seen), just seem to have forgotten how to play the game? is that coaching? brain lock? just don't care? a new drug? ... what?
again - weird (to put it nicely)

moreover, what are the odds the unit get better quick?
Click to expand...
The first thing they need to do is switch Collins and C-Will. They’re both out of position. The only other option I see is throwing Xavier in at LG and give The took a break.
 
Smith needs to get back to Smith-level play, Martin needs to step-up beyond his all-pro performance, we need T.Fred back and we're fine.

C. Williams is a rookie but alarmed me, RT has been a mess for years. Hoping Williams develops over the course of the season, but having TFred next to him is a big part of that.
 
And I tell you what, the dude has some vice grips for hands, too.

If he got his mitts on a pass rusher, you could usually cancel Christmas.

Even when it looked like a guy might be about to turn the corner on him, if Williams had a handful of jersey, he would ride them right on by the quarterback.

The funny thing is, the more I started to appreciate Williams as a pass blocker, the more I noticed him getting after it as a run blocker.

Pancakes always stand out to even the most casual fan, but play in and play out, I loved how Williams would drive his feet on contact.

A lot of run blockers only try to come off hard and get that initial pop on a defender, but Williams looked like he was being filmed for training tape on the sleds, chopping his feet and gaining inch after inch after inch until you look up and his has pushed his man five yards off the ball.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/connor-williams?id=32462018-0002-5600-1711-baf493b722cd

Overview
Williams has been a personal favorite since studying his freshman season, but his 2017 tape didn't match his previous body of work. Williams seemed to lose some lateral quickness and had troubles holding up at a high level in protection. A move to guard or center is a possibility depending on how his arm length measures out. Williams is a plus run blocker with plug-and-play technique across the board. If he regains his 2016 form, he will be a good NFL starter. If not, he'll be an average NFL starter

•Carries good lean muscle mass
•Outstanding technician from before his first college snap
•Works for centered blocks
•Good redirect and is fluid in pre-strike movements
 
Watch Connor Willliams carefully and you will see he get beat with raw power. The Carolina DT had success against Williams with an outside move which made Williams take him on without help from Looney. Williams gets overpowered, he gets his arms too close to his body instead of extending them and he loses control of his man. Supposedly he has short arms. I don;t know if thats it or not. He definitely has to bulk up and get strong, but he also needs to get quicker. He can;t let the tackles get to his body which he does do.

This can be fixed. Mark Stepnoski was small for a Center and he managed to be an all-pro with great technique and leverage. Williams needs to learn how to do that or put on 20 lbs with strength.
 
Chrispierce said:
I don’t have a problem with Williams like I see everyone bashing him all over. What I have a problem with,is they’re lacking a brute on the line. You got to have one for the offense they want to be. It’s built for power rushing. They’ll have to find one,or physical fronts will continue to give them problems. I want a power LG. I think Dallas is thinking Sua Filo fits that mold.
Click to expand...
A guy off the street fits that mold? I hope so.
 
Number1 said:
over the last 9 games (beginning with ATL) they have yielded 29 sacks ... that would suggest Dak is looking at 50 sack season in 2018

in 2016 Zeke averaged 5.1 ypc, since then only 1 game above 5.0

the stats above are probably why we have a new OL coach (can't remember his name)
then 6 sacks to open his coaching career in DAL

I'm not an OL guy - I can tell you all about passing schemes ... how to cover / how to beat coverage, try me any time - tactically or strategically - I know passing games

if there are any OL gurus in the house please explain a few things for us

it's near 5 months since Conner was drafted to play LG, why hasn't he powered up? is he maxed out?
that just seems weird (to put it nicely)

IMO, Collins played slightly better than Doug Free last year, and last game: will he ever be above average?

Looney looked ok in protection (to me), but couldn't make a combo block on the 2nd level
is he a viable long term option at C?

and can anybody explain to me how Chaz, and now Fleming (when last seen), just seem to have forgotten how to play the game? is that coaching? brain lock? just don't care? a new drug? ... what?
again - weird (to put it nicely)

moreover, what are the odds the unit get better quick?
Click to expand...

This FO as inept as they are and yes including Will will probably spend the next 2-3 years drafting with our top picks OFF-Lineman again..........someone tell them that OFF-Lineman are not PLAYMAKERS.....most teams draft them in rds 3 and 4 and coach them up .....but this is something our FO simply cannot comprehend ........

P.S. Connor is light maybe he can be our new STUD TE......lol.....
 
Number1 said:
over the last 9 games (beginning with ATL) they have yielded 29 sacks ... that would suggest Dak is looking at 50 sack season in 2018

in 2016 Zeke averaged 5.1 ypc, since then only 1 game above 5.0

the stats above are probably why we have a new OL coach (can't remember his name)
then 6 sacks to open his coaching career in DAL

I'm not an OL guy - I can tell you all about passing schemes ... how to cover / how to beat coverage, try me any time - tactically or strategically - I know passing games

if there are any OL gurus in the house please explain a few things for us

it's near 5 months since Conner was drafted to play LG, why hasn't he powered up? is he maxed out?
that just seems weird (to put it nicely)

IMO, Collins played slightly better than Doug Free last year, and last game: will he ever be above average?

Looney looked ok in protection (to me), but couldn't make a combo block on the 2nd level
is he a viable long term option at C?

and can anybody explain to me how Chaz, and now Fleming (when last seen), just seem to have forgotten how to play the game? is that coaching? brain lock? just don't care? a new drug? ... what?
again - weird (to put it nicely)

moreover, what are the odds the unit get better quick?
Click to expand...

You have blocking schemes and then types of blocks like gap down blocks in the run. Then you have individual techniques. The C generally calls the overall scheme based on the defensive set. But in the run you have differing techniques than the pass block. In pass blocking the C often does a kick slide to start then does other techniques which are often combinations with the hands etc. The G may do mirror blocking, combo blocks and punches. The set may be wide or more depending on defensive formations and the play call. Hip flexion or strikes are vital for interior linemen.

The defense calls the offensive block often. So unless you know what their assignment is then you have a hard time evaluating technique.

What you inquired about requires stopping the DT by getting into position with say a kick slide then set. The G's job is to stop that charge and often that is with repetitive punches, I don't think you can pin him down to a technique etc by watching TV. You can say he failed the block.
 
jobberone said:
You have blocking schemes and then types of blocks like gap down blocks in the run. Then you have individual techniques. The C generally calls the overall scheme based on the defensive set. But in the run you have differing techniques than the pass block. In pass blocking the C often does a kick slide to start then does other techniques which are often combinations with the hands etc. The G may do mirror blocking, combo blocks and punches. The set may be wide or more depending on defensive formations and the play call. Hip flexion or strikes are vital for interior linemen.

The defense calls the offensive block often. So unless you know what their assignment is then you have a hard time evaluating technique.

What you inquired about requires stopping the DT by getting into position with say a kick slide then set. The G's job is to stop that charge and often that is with repetitive punches, I don't think you can pin him down to a technique etc by watching TV. You can say he failed the block.
Click to expand...

thanks for a real answer - Williams just faced good DTs, can he handle most D3s head up in protection?
 
When Frederick returns, Williams will look much better. Williams will improve every game this season and he will be a strength at LG before long.
 
Number1 said:
thanks for a real answer - Williams just faced good DTs, can he handle most D3s head up in protection?
Click to expand...

His kick slide was slow but I can't evaluate his hands. If you don't get set for your pass block you aren't able to use a following technique.
 
Chrispierce said:
He’s an athlete. Dallas needs a brute at LG. Tired of saying this...but I don’t understand why Dallas has a line of technique guys. You need some dirty if you want a power rushing team. It’s a must. Put a Leary at LG in that game? Car isn’t having their way upfront like they did.
Click to expand...

All of the Dallas linemen were former tackles in college, at some point. They have the skill for a lateral step in pass blocking. Eventually that movement ability will start to jell and provide even better pass protection, that was a carry over from last season. It is coming...
 
OmerV said:
Zack Martin and Travis Frederick are pretty brutish if you ask me. Unfortunately Frederick isn't healthy.
Click to expand...

Didn't Frederick breaks some guy's arm in college?

Actually, "a couple guys' arms and wrists ... on our own team". I think that's brutish enough.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ravis-frederick-broke-exteammates-arms-wrists
"Unfortunately, he has an extreme nastiness," Frederick's college coach Bret Bielema told KESN-FM in Dallas on Sunday. "I had to get on him a few of times. He broke a couple guys' arms and wrists by throwing them down on the ground and whacking them a little bit after the play, on our own team. ..."​

p.s. Apparently Frederick is such a beast, just quoting his coach about him triggers list moderation.
This message is awaiting moderator approval, and is invisible to normal visitors.​
 
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I know Williams has faced a really tough slate of 3 techs so far in his young career (counting preseason), but man, those kind of big strong guys are out there in the NFL and they run him over at will. Short's a Pro Bowler, but still: 2 sacks, no movement in the run game, and repeated pressures given up pushing the pocket is just a bad game however you try and spin it.

I've been a Williams supporter since we drafted him, but I'm almost wondering if it's time to pull him. He simply isn't getting the job done.
 
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