One of the many bad calls by the referees last night

[Coogiguy03]

Blocking before the pass is included in OPI, but if your snapshot is right at contact the ball was already in the air and should have been legal at least in my understanding of the rule.
But maybe it has to be caught before contact, but I've seen plenty of plays that didn't get flagged if that's the case.

has to be caught first

 

[Brax]

3rd QTR, 3rd & 1. Moot because the pass to the FB was INC.

But Guyton flagged for holding. Thibodeaux clearly tripped over T.Smith's leg and fell (and took Guyton down with him)

Move your circle up to his arm and you will see the holding

 

[Brax]

I know there were several bad calls last night including a couple that benefited the Cowboys so this is just about trying to understand the logic in why they called this a penalty.

This is from the NFL Rules on Offensive Pass Interference ..

PASS INTERFERENCE - It is pass interference by either team when any act by a player more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders an eligible player’s opportunity to catch the ball. Pass interference can only occur when a forward pass is thrown from behind the line of scrimmage, regardless of whether the pass is legal or illegal, or whether it crosses the line.​

This is the play where they called pass interference on Tolbert blocking ..

The screenshot is the right at the moment Tolbert initiated contact with the defender.

Did they really think the dender was going to catch that ball if he was not blocked?

“In the NFL, blocking downfield before the ball is caught is considered offensive pass interference. This occurs when a player blocks downfield beyond the line of scrimmage before the ball is touched”
So it was he proper call. Your snap shot shows this perfectly

 

[mrmojo]

Many of those referees standing on the field behind the offense are old fogies who probably don't have the best eyesight or best common sense abilities.



Probably need younger officials standing back there.

The head official is 49, don't believe that is old at all.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

3rd QTR, 3rd & 1. Moot because the pass to the FB was INC.

But Guyton flagged for holding. Thibodeaux clearly tripped over T.Smith's leg and fell (and took Guyton down with him)

This photo demonstrates some of our blocking problems. We have 3 on 2 there...two guys trying to block one of theirs...and our other guy getting beat.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I know there were several bad calls last night including a couple that benefited the Cowboys so this is just about trying to understand the logic in why they called this a penalty.

This is from the NFL Rules on Offensive Pass Interference ..

PASS INTERFERENCE - It is pass interference by either team when any act by a player more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders an eligible player’s opportunity to catch the ball. Pass interference can only occur when a forward pass is thrown from behind the line of scrimmage, regardless of whether the pass is legal or illegal, or whether it crosses the line.​

This is the play where they called pass interference on Tolbert blocking ..

The screenshot is the right at the moment Tolbert initiated contact with the defender.

Did they really think the dender was going to catch that ball if he was not blocked?

Here's another one...we doubling one guy...while two others are laying on the ground.

 

[America's Cowboy]

The head official is 49, don't believe that is old at all.

Well, he needs to get his eyes checked if he was the one who called holding on Guyton.

 

[Brax]

Yeah, I pointed out that one in another thread.

I did not see a hold there at all because he never turned or halted him.

He released as soon as he got beat, but the rusher tripped and Guyton fell on top of him so they assumed he pulled him down.

When theOL arm goes across the chest on the DL rusher it will be called pretty much every time. You all forget these penalties happen in real time not in snap shot time but both examples show that the correct penalty was called I am seeing why there some tin foil hat fans they see what they want not what is. Are there bad calls yes but these 2 are not

 

[Brax]

Well, he needs to get his eyes checked if he was the one who called holding on Guyton.

You don’t know what holding is which explains your post. Maybe the OL coach shouldn’t have been a buddy of MM

 

[America's Cowboy]

You don’t know what holding is which explains your post. Maybe the OL coach shouldn’t have been a buddy of MM

Which play are you talking about? Stop being lazy. Show video.

 

[MarcusRock]

When theOL arm goes across the chest on the DL rusher it will be called pretty much every time.

EXCEPT where the defensive player uses a rip move as part of his defensive charge which the Giants DL did here if you pull the video. It is one of the several exceptions built into the holding rules and explains that it puts the OL in a position that is normally holding. I can't post the rule right now due to traveling so maybe someone else can but there are like 7 of them. This is one I think Guyton is innocent of.

On a separate note, you can't show a snapshot to demonstrate holding or any other motion penalty because you actually need to see the motion to make a determination. I think about that picture of Parsons splitting 2 Miami OLs that he peddled around as holding and then when you run the video he wasn't held at all.

 

[Vtwin]

"b) Blocking a defender beyond the line of scrimmage while the pass is in the air if the block occurs in the vicinity of the player to whom the pass is thrown."

Noshame nailed it. I would just add that the player being blocked was in position to close and make the tackle once the ball was caught.

FWIW add me to the list of those who remember seeing this sort of play flagged pretty regularly.

 

[Creeper]

I thought the officiating was pretty awful for this game and I confirmed my initial opinion when I rewatched the game.

There was an illegal contact penalty called on Dallas that I am pretty sure the contact was initiated with 5 yards making it legal contact.

Neither holding call on Guyton was legit, especially the 2nd 1.

I was focused on Mazi when I rewatched the game and he got held at least 3 times that I saw, but being a NT I assume they just let those go.

The flag they picked up on the Rico Dowdle TD should not have been picked up if it was thrown for Beebe being downfield. Beebe was downfield. It should have been called.

There were a couple of times the Giants DBs hit Cowboys receivers before they caught the ball, enough contact to impede the receivers from catching the ball.

Everyone saw the facemask call that was wrong.

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

The refs likely saved us from losing this game.

The Giants had the momentum and were driving again at the beginning of the game. They EASILY could gone up by double digits, and were on their way to it, when that face mask debacle occurred, which stalled their drive and got us back in the game.

I've seen missed face masks...if seen flags that weren't really face masks, but I have NEVER seen a legit face mask, correctly flagged, and then just picked the other team to penalize. Never in my life have I seen that. That would be as insane as calling Intentional Grounding, and then penalizing the defense for it.

Game coulda snowballed quickly if not for that Get Out Of Jail Free card they gave us.

We'd likely be 1-3 if not for that season saving gift from The Refs.

 

[Brax]

Which play are you talking about? Stop being lazy. Show video.

There’s only 2 shown one opi one holding both were correct calls

 

[Cowboys5217]

Bad thing is, you will not get the benefit of the doubt, when you lead the league in flags each year. This has been a problem for years and no coach can seen to change the culture.

Because the issue isn't the coach. The issue is the sticker on the helmet. All you gotta do is compare GB penalties and Cowboys penalties with McCarthy at each stop. Then compare overall penalties called against both teams since 2000 for a good sample size.

This one is a ref culture problem, not a Cowboys culture problem. It has become accepted and traditional to call the most penalties against Dallas because of previously biased refs against the Cowboys making it the norm.

 

[Brax]

EXCEPT where the defensive player uses a rip move as part of his defensive charge which the Giants DL did here if you pull the video. It is one of the several exceptions built into the holding rules and explains that it puts the OL in a position that is normally holding. I can't post the rule right now due to traveling so maybe someone else can but there are like 7 of them. This is one I think Guyton is innocent of.

On a separate note, you can't show a snapshot to demonstrate holding or any other motion penalty because you actually need to see the motion to make a determination. I think about that picture of Parsons splitting 2 Miami OLs that he peddled around as holding and then when you run the video he wasn't held at all.

Understand the rule but I don’t think it applies in this case, Because of the rest of the statement
“If the action is part of a double-team block, unless the defender splits the double team, gets to the outside of either blocker or is taken to the ground.”
He clearly split the double team and in real time it’s a penalty in my opinion

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Blocking before the pass is included in OPI, but if your snapshot is right at contact the ball was already in the air and should have been legal at least in my understanding of the rule.
But maybe it has to be caught before contact, but I've seen plenty of plays that didn't get flagged if that's the case.

That makes zero sense. The ball was in the air and Tolbert was already blocking his man.

That’s text book OPI as spelled-out in the rule included in the original post.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Because the issue isn't the coach. The issue is the sticker on the helmet. All you gotta do is compare GB penalties and Cowboys penalties with McCarthy at each stop. Then compare overall penalties called against both teams since 2000 for a good sample size.

This one is a ref culture problem, not a Cowboys culture problem. It has become accepted and traditional to call the most penalties against Dallas because of previously biased refs against the Cowboys making it the norm.

This myth has been busted many times over.

 

[Reality]

Problem being is, the rules are full of subjective terms like vicinity describe that in terms of yards.

How many holding penalties do you see called totally away from the play? Especially on special teams.
But you're right, it's up to the interpretation of the guy throwing the flag in that leaves it wide open.
If I don't approve of the call, but calls like that happen multiple times every game, every Sunday.
I guess the only solace being sometimes they benefit you and sometimes they do not.
Overall, the quality of officiating in the NFL is absolutely horrific with no accountability.

Yeah, that's really my point.

I wasn't blaming anything on the referees, but simply trying to understand their reasoning for throwing some of them, and this case, this one in particular.