Onside Kick Stays

KJJ

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I don't dispute that. But they were a really good team late in the season. That Peak still had to get through a wildcard game, two 13-3 teams, and an undefeated team in the SB. You still have to be a really talented team. Unlike last year's Giants.
They were good but they weren’t dominant. They simply peaked at the right time. They had to go through a wildcard game because they weren’t that good during the regular season. New England peaked early just like the Cowboys did. They weren’t the same team in the Super Bowl.
 

_sturt_

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Seems to me the more you can set it up pre-snap so that there ends up being a race to the ball... more like a mad scramble than a rock-em-sock-em-robots thing as it's always been... and with the receiving team having some advantage but not an extraordinary one, then you can accomplish the desired 13-14% while also retaining a legitimate effective constraint embedded in the rules to ****** full-steam head-on collisions.

(Problem is, you have to have a testing ground to determine the exact parameters... ie, what yard lines are most ideal... that get you at the number you're seeking, so until you have that, it's all just a theoretical conversation.)


And for example, you could say...

  • Kickoff from 35 (as current).

  • Receiving team may only have players lined-up between the 40-45 (kicking team's side of field) and beyond their own 25 (... current, they can be no closer than the 45). Thus, the 25-50 on their side of the field is no man's land, pre-snap. So, in the screenshot below, imagine all the LAC players shifted about 5 yards up

  • Kicked ball becomes live once it passes the 50 yard line (instead of kicking team's 45).

Would look something like this...

LWR_Recording.png
Given a day to give it more thought, under this scenario, the kicking team has to run 15 yards while the receiving team only has to run 5 yards in order to cover the live ball (ie, becomes live after passes the 50, whether on the fly or having been squibbed on the ground).

But, otoh, the kicker of course controls how quickly or slowly the ball gets beyond the 50, and so that sorta kinda mitigates that 10 yard head-start of the receiving team to enough extent that it's not at all an insurmountable advantage. And/but... if kicker chooses to pop the ball in the air for an infield fly rule kinda trajectory, risks someone on the receiving team being able to run back and settle under the ball for a fair catch on the fly.

Boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, I think this works.
 

JD_KaPow

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------I would consider amending the 4th-and-20 play to say that, yes, PI can happen and give you the ball, but if you convert via penalty you get the ball at the same LOS you had for the 4th-and-20 play, there's no advancement. I'm sure there are unintended consequences to that--say, the ball carrier is running free for a TD so a defender just punches the QB in the face to get a penalty--but I wonder if those couldn't be ironed out.


If the NFL ever adopts an asinine rule that allows the team THAT JUST SCORED....THE OPTION TO AGAIN GO ON OFFENSE AND TAKE OVER POSSESSION....I will NEVER watch another NFL game....and that is a promise. Who here thinks that if Dallas was in a big game, they would be allowed to convert a 4th and 20 without a flag nullifying it....or make a stop on a 4th and 20 conversion without a flag allowing the drive to continue.....yeah, you know the answer. And PLEASE tell me if you are behind with little to no time left, WHAT IS THE RISK of attempting to keep the ball??? There is ZERO risk and it is BLATANTLY unfair to the team that deserves to be on offense.
This is bizarre. You do realize that the NFL already has a rule that allows the team that just scored the option to regain the ball again? That's what the onside kick is. And when you're behind with little or no time left, you already attempt the onside kick, which has zero, sorry, ZERO risk of attempting to keep the ball.
 

DandyDon52

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lol, they say they want a higher success rate , then dont change anything !?? How ******** is that.
They need to do something because it is way to hard, near impossible, and that is boring.
 

PA Cowboy Fan

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That used to be the rule, but they changed it for "player safety." So what are they going to do now, change it back?
I don't know why not. They don't care about player safety. It's all fake. If they really cared they'd get rid of Thursday Football and wouldn't have expanded the season.
 

fivetwos

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Here’s the problem with the 4th and long and conversion rates…

It doesn’t account for the fact that the defense has just given up a score, and is most likely gassed.

I don’t think it ought to be all that easy to stage a comeback and I like the rule the way it is….next to impossible to do.

Don’t like it? Play better for the first 59 minutes.
 

_sturt_

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next to impossible to do
Agree.

Don’t like it? Play better for the first 59 minutes.
Right, but.

If a game has went back and forth, and it's really one of those games where the two teams are clearly evenly matched... then that opens up the likelihood that one team played well for 30 of those 59 minutes, and the other played well for 29 of those 59 minutes... I really don't mind them, then, getting a 13-14% shot at winning that decisive last minute, and coming away with the last-minute win.

They don't care about player safety. It's all fake. If they really cared they'd get rid of Thursday Football and wouldn't have expanded the season.
They care about making and keeping money... and I for one don't mind that at all.

The player safety part is about keeping money... it's about liability. They do have a built-in profit-driven reason for caring about player safety, having nothing to do with whether they feel morally responsible.

The expansion of TV games, and thereby, advertising revenue et al.... that's the making money part.

The two pursuits, then, are completely consistent with each other.

lol, they say they want a higher success rate , then dont change anything !?? How ******** is that.
They need to do something
Agreed.

But it's do-able without the 4th-and-20 idea. I prefer modifications to the existing structure. And I'm convinced that's possible... even if I've heard of no one talking in this direction...........
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/onside-kick-stays.509642/post-12701489
 

_sturt_

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(Link to screenshot died... let's see if this works... )

LWR_Recording.png
 

conner01

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Let them overload one side of the line if you want success rate up
That’s what they got away from for safety
Not sure how you could increase the rate without something like that though
 

conner01

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Agree.
They need to change the rules to create a higher % of success. They got scared and changed too many rules over injury issues.
Maybe not going back to overload one side like it was. But to allow a few extra on one side, to allow more success. It was part of the game for years. It is up to the other team counter as usual.
That’s really the only option I see that could work. It’s simply math
 

Mannix

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-----This is bizarre. You do realize that the NFL already has a rule that allows the team that just scored the option to regain the ball again? That's what the onside kick is. And when you're behind with little or no time left, you already attempt the onside kick, which has zero, sorry, ZERO risk of attempting to keep the ball.

No....above is bizarre!!! Do you call the ball touching the kickers foot for 1/3 of a second HAVING POSSESSION? If so, you are right. And there are VERY seldom....if ever....CROOKED CALLS on an onside kick, like there will surely be with this asinine 4th and 20 "GET A DO OVER" proposal.

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JayFord

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The onsides kick sucks

Get rid of it, do 4th and 15 idea and if you convert you get the ball on your own 20.
 

Mannix

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The onsides kick sucks

Get rid of it, do 4th and 15 idea and if you convert you get the ball on your own 20.
You already had the ball…it’s OVER….other teams turn…how hard is that for some of you to understand? ZERO risk for the team attempting the 4th and 20 if they are behind with little time. Sounds like another societal attempt to try and make everyone a winner…even if they don’t deserve it.
 

Flamma

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You already had the ball…it’s OVER….other teams turn…how hard is that for some of you to understand? ZERO risk for the team attempting the 4th and 20 if they are behind with little time. Sounds like another societal attempt to try and make everyone a winner…even if they don’t deserve it.
I couldn't agree more. Once they start adding gimmicks to this game, I'll probably be done with it. Why not stick a smaller goal post inside the larger goal post and you get 4 points for the field goal. I've actually heard that suggestion.

They broke the onside kick. It used to be 1/3 or 1/4 I believe. It can be fixed. Using a freakish gimmick is not the solution.

These new league's that keep popping up using more gimmicks to replace the kickoff and extra points, it's not working.
 
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