Orton a "No Show" at Minicamp Practice today **Contract Details Post #36**

LittleD

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Can we get some clarity on how much SB he'd have to pay back? He got 5 million. He's played here for 2 years. So it would seem strange that we could get 3 mill back. As this is the final year of his deal, seems like 1.33 mill would be the amount he'd realistically owe us.


He did a restructure last year I think. The latest I got off the DC.com website was about 3.5mil +/-...
I think his salary for this year is about 3.2mil which he will be down about 150K from missing mandatories
and his workout de-escalation.
 

silver

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I couldnt care less about this guy. Let's just hope we get some of the cap relief by him retiring. My guess is he wants to skip training camp and will show up once the real checks start to cash in. When that happens I would suspend him without pay for the season for conduct detrimental for the team. That way he cant play for another team like Ratliff did.
 

AbeBeta

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He did a restructure last year I think. The latest I got off the DC.com website was about 3.5mil +/-...
I think his salary for this year is about 3.2mil which he will be down about 150K from missing mandatories
and his workout de-escalation.

The restructure last year just converted some salary to bonus. It is relevant to cap space but not to how much he might owe the team.

The big issue here is that if he retires he has to pay back some SB.

If he is cut he does not have to pay it back.

So what I want someone to tell us definitively how much SB we could recover. Folks have said 3 mill but that makes no sense. He's played 2/3rds of his deal.
 

LittleD

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The restructure last year just converted some salary to bonus. It is relevant to cap space but not to how much he might owe the team.

The big issue here is that if he retires he has to pay back some SB.

If he is cut he does not have to pay it back.

So what I want someone to tell us definitively how much SB we could recover. Folks have said 3 mill but that makes no sense. He's played 2/3rds of his deal.

I heard that the restructure added two years to the contract which are voidable. I think the SB would be structured to
amortize over the 3 years so if he retires, he would be required to pay back about 1.15mil per year. At least that's what I read
and who know how accurate that is.
 

AbeBeta

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I heard that the restructure added two years to the contract which are voidable. I think the SB would be structured to
amortize over the 3 years so if he retires, he would be required to pay back about 1.15mil per year. At least that's what I read
and who know how accurate that is.

If it is the team's contention that he should pay back 3.45 mill then he should fight it. His original deal was for 3 years with a 5 mill SB. He restructured last year turning about 500k of salary into bonus that we spread over 4 years. That restructure has nothing to do with the original SB nor should be ask for any of the 500k back because he was slated to earn that in 2013 anyway.
 

Vinnie2u

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I haven't found one good reason to restructure any player... Including Romo.. It's like a divorce never ends well..
 

guag

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"I'm not anything"

that's a great quote, taken out of context.
 

AbeBeta

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I haven't found one good reason to restructure any player... Including Romo.. It's like a divorce never ends well..

Really? Then you might not be familiar with the structure of contracts.

Players often receive large guaranteed 2nd and 3rd year salaries. Restructuring those as bonus allow the team to further spread out the cap hit. If your are pushing money five years into the future, you are actually getting a net increase in cap space as consistent increases in the cap make that money a smaller proportion of the cap. It is as if you bought something using a credit card and paid negative interest on it.
 

gimmesix

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Management is clearly going to let this play out into training camp next month. He can be fined 30K per day for each
day he misses. Eventually, he can be suspended for games and miss game checks for conduct detrimental to the
team. They are not going to let him pull a "Ratliff" and let this grow like a virus.

If this is the way Orton is going to play it, then I don't think Dallas has a choice but to keep fining him until he either shows up or retires. I thought before that maybe he truly hadn't made up his mind, but this seems to be all about either not having to pay back money that he should have to pay back or forcing the team to cut him so he can join another team.

Not sure Dallas can afford to let him take up a roster spot during the season to further show its resolve, but if there is any designation the Cowboys can use where he is an inactive reserve but not being paid for it, I'd definitely love to see that.
 

Vinnie2u

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Really? Then you might not be familiar with the structure of contracts.

Players often receive large guaranteed 2nd and 3rd year salaries. Restructuring those as bonus allow the team to further spread out the cap hit. If your are pushing money five years into the future, you are actually getting a net increase in cap space as consistent increases in the cap make that money a smaller proportion of the cap. It is as if you bought something using a credit card and paid negative interest on it.

And at the end of the contracts when the player is not worth his big contract the team gets stuck with dead money when they cut them.
 

AbeBeta

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And at the end of the contracts when the player is not worth his big contract the team gets stuck with dead money when they cut them.

At the end of the contract when the player is not worth it, there is generally a GAIN in cap space because the base salary exceeds whatever dead money we'd end up with. Plus that dead money eats up a smaller % of space 4 years down the line than it would if we just paid everyone a high base salary each year. People hear "dead money" and react negatively - but that is usually because they don't understand what it is.
 

Bungarian

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Keep him and fine him, and when a team needs a QB during training camp work out a trade. But cutting him is just giving him what he wants. After that game in Philly last year, he is prolly think he can still play for another team this year.

Teams are not going to trade for a guy who may retire and does not show up.
 

Vinnie2u

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At the end of the contract when the player is not worth it, there is generally a GAIN in cap space because the base salary exceeds whatever dead money we'd end up with. Plus that dead money eats up a smaller % of space 4 years down the line than it would if we just paid everyone a high base salary each year. People hear "dead money" and react negatively - but that is usually because they don't understand what it is.

And we go into every free agency period with negative cap space because we have so much dead money into players that are not on the team anymore.. Or are under performing their inflated contracts..
 

big dog cowboy

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And we go into every free agency period with negative cap space because we have so much dead money into players that are not on the team anymore.. Or are under performing their inflated contracts..

The good news is that way of doing business is behind us. The bad news, this story about Orton won't be over anytime soon and we have to hear about it for a while longer.
 

WoodysGirl

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Somebody mentioned Orton's contract details

Kyle Orton, the Cowboys, and Retirement
Salary cap

by Jason Fitzgerald

Due to the Cowboys salary cap situation they often use high signing bonuses for their players to reduce cap hits. This was no different for Orton who received $5.9 million in salary in 2012 of which $5 million came in the form of a signing bonus. Overall 47.6% of Orton’s entire contract was paid in that 2012 bonus. While the contract was initially panned as overspending just for the sake of overspending, Dallas may have assumed that in the worst case scenario Orton would be called into action for one full year. The $10.5 million total contract value would have been on par with signing a lower level starter like Ryan Fitzpatrick, so one season of play justified the entire three year investment. They expected him to be a Cowboy for three years for that purpose.

In addition to the $5 million bonus, Orton also converted $510,000 of his 2013 salary into a signing bonus to provide the Cowboys cap relief. As far as I know this bonus, which was paid as a signing rather than a guaranteed roster bonus, should be subject to forfeiture as well. If so that was a mistake by his agents to not receive the bonus using a different mechanism. Other types of prorated signing bonuses are usually only subject to forfeiture in the year they are earned rather than in the future years as well. Perhaps this bonus was protected but for the sake of this we will assume it is not.

Had this been a standard contract, Orton would have been deemed to have “earned” $3,588,332 of his bonus money. If he retired he would then be forced to repay the Cowboys $1,921,668, which is a pretty large sum of money. That number would represent about 26.5% of his earnings for the last two years. However, Dallas often does not use standard contracts and, for cap purposes, uses void seasons which are used as placeholders for signing bonus prorations.

Even though Orton would technically be a free agent in 2015, his contract is valid through 2016. The way the forfeiture rules are written Dallas should be able to recover money attributed to 2014, 2015, and 2016. That number is a whopping $3,382,500, or about 46.7% of his earnings over the last two seasons. If forced to repay back that money he would essentially have played the last two seasons for $1.9 million a year, which is a low wage for a capable veteran backup.

For salary cap purposes the retirement of Orton would work just like a cut. Once placed on the Reserve/Retired list Orton’s bonus money will accelerate onto the salary cap. Considering this would not occur until after June 1 the resulting cap charges would be $1,127,500 charge in 2014 and $2,255,000 charge in 2015. Orton’s current cap charge is $4,377,500 so in no way would a retirement hurt the Cowboys cap.

Following his retirement Dallas can seek repayment of his money tied to this season and the next two voidable seasons. Future money would not actually be repaid until the following June and once repaid Dallas will receive salary cap credits. Usually there is a one year delay in these credits so they would receive a $1.1275 million increase in their available cap space in 2015, 2016, and 2017 rather than 2014, 2015, and 2016. If Orton retires and refuses to pay the money back to the Cowboys the Cowboys can take the case through the Arbitration process. I’m not really sure what defense Orton could have other than the fact that money attributed to 2015 and 2016 should not be recollected from Dallas.

Read a lot more here and bookmark it for future reading: http://overthecap.com/kyle-orton-cowboys-retirement/
 

Bcrav4

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Are we sure Orton is okay? It's really weird that the gm and coaches haven't even heard from him.
 

AbeBeta

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And we go into every free agency period with negative cap space because we have so much dead money into players that are not on the team anymore.. Or are under performing their inflated contracts..

Yeah, it really is a terrible thing that we can't spend tons of UFA money on older guys.
 

WoodysGirl

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Are we sure Orton is okay? It's really weird that the gm and coaches haven't even heard from him.

It's not unprecedented... This is the Jake Plummer situation all over again. Jake ended up giving back $3.5m to go play handball in California somewhere. lol
 
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