Our offensive line sucks because of our draft history

[TruBlueCowboy]

If Petitti ends up as another Tui, I'm willing to forgive the "Great Jacob Rogers/Stephen Peternan Debacle."

 

[Galian Beast]

Like I said there are certainly a lot of players who become good being drafted in late rounds, but if you compare the total rounds against each other, the first rounders are still going to be better.

You're just looking at individual teams, rather the entire nfl...

 

[burmafrd]

For one thing: from what I recall, we would have had to have paid Wahle a fair amount more then Rivera cost since he did not want to come here.
Next: Peterman is not yet a bust- we will see this year.
As has been pointed out, just taking a O lineman early does not ensure success. I would never use a first on anything but a TOP LT and there is maybe ONE of those per year and they go REAL early.
BP really only screwed up on Rogers- and everyone makes mistakes.

 

[big dog cowboy]

2004 - Rogers/Peterman (both busts 2nd and 3rd)

It's to soon to say Peterman was a bust.

 

[Bobo]

Like I said there are certainly a lot of players who become good being drafted in late rounds, but if you compare the total rounds against each other, the first rounders are still going to be better.

Maybe I'm missing something in this thread, but typically it's only LT's that are picked in the 1st round. Flo is a solid LT.

Very rarely are G'd or C's taken in the 1st. This team has actually spent more high picks on the o-line than most teams.

I don't know that you can point at one thing for a quick easy fix. A guy is an injury bust. Another may not have the talent to have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Another may have had talent but not have had good enough coaching....or that could go for the entire o-line.

I like the idea of an easy fix! But an easy fix is usually too good to be true.

 

[LatinMind]

parcells had a chance at jammal brown..thats the sad thing

something to keep a close eye on is flozell's 9mil tag next yr..something has to happen there..

 

[WilmingtonHeel]

I was just going to ask how many 1st rounders KC and NE have? 1 I think and he was from another team. We've been unlucky in this dept and a little lucky late 80's and early 90's.

 

[LatinMind]

I was just going to ask how many 1st rounders KC and NE have? 1 I think and he was from another team. We've been unlucky in this dept and a little lucky late 80's and early 90's.

i know 1 first rounder would would have fit in great in Dallas, and i got laughed at ESPN for mentioning his name...Logan Mankins

 

[Galian Beast]

Its not about getting an easy fix.

And I wasn't saying we need to draft olinemen in the first. I was just making a point. Its really about getting more first DAY offensive linemen.

Parcells completely ignored fixing our offensive line. We are in Parcells year 4.

In the first year we could tell that Gurode wasn't great, and that Ryan Young couldnt continue playing. Center wasn't at all a fixture either with al Johnson being injured. And Larry Allen was still old there too, and Flozell still had focusing problems.

They never addressed the left side (which could have saved us a lot of money). Nor did they spend enough time seriously trying to fix the right side.

We did nothing at guard or right tackle in year 2. Despite the problems existing before.

We signed Marco Rivera is year 3. But they still did nothing at right tackle, except hope for the best.

Here we are in year 4, and basically every position is a question mark. That is like going through 4 years of college and not knowing your major... Its ridiculous, and doesn't make sense.

Should have replaced Allen a while ago. Should have probably drafted another center last year or this year. Right guard and right tackle should have been addressed in Year 2.

 

[burmafrd]

Gurode was picked the year before BP came in. Then he got Johnson. Decided to give the Hotel the big contract as well. Looking at it that way, he felt that he had most of the O line taken care of for several years. Then he picked Peterman. LA was not supposed to decline like he did- shouldn't have, anyway. So by year 3 we had supposedly the bodies we needed. We had young guards and a young center. Then we picked Rogers for the RT. You do not want to use any more picks above 6th rd for depth or development.
Then last year we got Petitti and also got Columbo. With our FA's I say we have put a good amount of effort into the O line. BUT the return has not been the greatest. Rogers was a bust. Gurode appears to be unable to mentally handle the pressure. Peterman we will find out this year. Johnson MAY have finally got the size/strength to take the next step. And we picked up some late rd developmental guys. Injuries blow the best laid plans of anyone up if they happen to the wrong guys. You are always going to gamble here and there and sometimes you get caught. Kosier and Rivera will be our guards for a couple of years at least; we need one good young guard to take Rivera's spot. Center we will see this year. Tackle is covered for a couple of years at least, so actually I can say that we will find out most of what we have and what we need this year.

 

[GoodOleDays]

It seems like we're naming Kosier the starter and theres no mention of Peterman. Honestly I've never heard of Kosier before the cowboys signed him, he was cut by just about the worst team in the nfl. Kosier seems to be a pretty average OG, I've heard people compare him to Matt Lehr.. thats not impressive. Shouldn't this be Peterman's job to lose, afterall he's going into his 3rd year and was a standout at LSU.

I know we didn't take Peterman til the 3rd round, but with our makeshift o-line he should definitely be cracking the starting lineup at this point in his nfl career. Is he a bust or will we ever even find out? Beating out a guy like Kosier shouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to do.. now beating out Larry Allen, thats an entire different story.

 

[noshame]

At some point we may have to address OL coaching. Since Houck left, well......

 

[LatinMind]

drafts yrs with parcells

2003
2nd rd
a. johnson - i was actually mad because gurode had done a very good job his rookie yr playing center..hopefully johnsons added weight will make him better..rather then slower.

2004
2nd rd
j.rogers- one of the worst mistakes ever..parcells own guy haley was telling him not to do it..but parcells ego said i want him..classic example of parcells saying its my way and u live with it

randy starks was chosen later in the draft

3rd rd
s.peterman - another wasted pick, supposedly real strong but seems to be as dumb as a brick, and showed it last yrs preseason game vs zona..he wasnt heard from again after that game..parcells doghouse effect

the worst thing about this pick..matt shaubb was picked 7 picks later

2005
6th rd (comp)
pettiti - started every game last yr..but wasnt that out of the last resort? dallas just didnt have anybody else. thats not exactly a positive

2006
who cares what dallas got this yr..like they'll matter

the point being..parcells speaks about the OL being a big part of their success every yr, but yet thats the part of the team he pays the least amount of attention to..instead of draft 5 DE's and having 4Te's on the team, maybe he should think about getting capable players to fill the OL rather then putting so much responsibility on players who cant get the job done..4 yrs, 4 different sets of problems in 4 different yrs..what parcells has done with this OL should be a felony

 

[2233boys]

Our offense has stunk, because our offensive line stinks. And it stinks because we don't draft linemen. And when they do their busts...

This is because they got too cavalier having flozell adams and larry allen...

I would say that every year, you should draft an offensive linemen in the first day (or at least in the 4th), with exceptions being made if you're all set on the line, at every position.

The oline has 5 spots (more than the 3-4, or 4-3 defensive lines, and thus has 9-10 roster spots dedicated to it). That is almost 1/5 of your team right there. And you know you're going to get some busts.... Just look at Seattle.

First day offensive linemen drafted since we got Larry Allen
2006 - None
2005 - None
2004 - Rogers/Peterman (both busts 2nd and 3rd)
2003 - Al Johnson (2)
2002 - Andre Gurode (2)
2001 - None
2000 - None
1999 - Solomon Page (2)
1998 - Flozell Adams (2)
1997 - Steve Scifres (3)
1996 - Clay Shiver (3)
1995 - Shane Hannah (2)
1994 - Larry Allen (2)

We've drafted 3 linemen on the first day since parcells got here, and 9 since we got Allen (including allen). Most of which were 3rd rounders, none in the first.

Dallas hasn't drafted an offensive lineman in the 1st round since the early 80's. If I am not mistaken the Cowboys have only ever taken 3 first round olineman ever... (it could be 4, but I am pretty sure it is 3)

 

[GoodOleDays]

Sean Locklear was also drafted behind Peterman and hes a solid starter at RT for the Seahawks.

 

[DallasEast]

Dallas hasn't drafted an offensive lineman in the 1st round since the early 80's. If I am not mistaken the Cowboys have only ever taken 3 first round olineman ever... (it could be 4, but I am pretty sure it is 3)

1st rounders:

Year	Pick	Name	                Position	College
1981	26	Howard Richards	           T	       Missouri
1979	27	Robert Shaw	           C	       Tennessee
1966	5	John Niland	           G	       Iowa
1964	4	Scott Appleton	           T	       Texas

 

[SkinRamon]

Look into it. Almost the entire Atlanta Falcons o-line is made up of 2nd day picks, including at least two 7th rounders.

But then again they've got the evil Gibbs in charge of them, that is, Alex...#1 rushing offense in the league for most of the season, even with Vick, that's still impressive given the caliber of their RB's..

EDIT:

LT Kevin Shaffer:7th Round 244th overall 2002
LG Matt Lehr: 5th Round 137th overall by Dallas in 2001
C Tod McClure: 7th Round 237th overall 1999
RG Kynan Forney:7th Round 219th overall 2001
RT Todd Wiener: 2nd Round 47th overall 1998 by Seattle, signed with ATL in 2002

 

[ghst187]

drafts yrs with parcells

2003
2nd rd
a. johnson - i was actually mad because gurode had done a very good job his rookie yr playing center..hopefully johnsons added weight will make him better..rather then slower.

2004
2nd rd
j.rogers- one of the worst mistakes ever..parcells own guy haley was telling him not to do it..but parcells ego said i want him..classic example of parcells saying its my way and u live with it

randy starks was chosen later in the draft

3rd rd
s.peterman - another wasted pick, supposedly real strong but seems to be as dumb as a brick, and showed it last yrs preseason game vs zona..he wasnt heard from again after that game..parcells doghouse effect

the worst thing about this pick..matt shaubb was picked 7 picks later

You forgot in 2003 when we drafted the great Justin Bates OG from Colorado in the...6th round I think??? I was going wth...?

And in 2004, we busted twice on Rogers and Peterman when Nathan Vasher (among others) was still on the board....which would've precluded us from spending huge $$$ on A Henry and could've brought in a big name FA OL instead.
The worst thing BP did with our OL was to force Torrin Tucker to play OT instead of leaving him at G, his natural position. Tucker would probably still be here and starting at G for us had that ill-advised move never been made. The day I read that on DC.com I knew it was a mistake, that Tucker didn't have the feet for it, but that Tucker could excel if he's left at G. He was the #2 rated G in the draft in '03. That move was ******** and I'm surprised Tucker hasn't tried to move himself back to G....$$$ perhaps?

 

[burmafrd]

Jury is still out on Peterman. Despite how some want to kick him to the curb since it helps "prove their point."
When you consider just how little real talent this team had in 2003 the change is remarkable. The O line is a problem- probably, but possibly not.
Unfortunately our real mistakes early in the draft are concentrated there.
Of the picks in our first 3 rds under BP, the ONLY failures appear to be O linemen. Rogers was clearly BP's biggest mistake; Peterman MIGHT be but we will find out this year. Gurode- just a smart guy who is football dumb. However, this year I believe that the line will be at LEAST decent, and just might be good. Now for those with an agenda that BP is a failure that is not going to make them happy, but I could care less.

 

[2233boys]

1st rounders:

Year	Pick	Name	                Position	College
1981	26	Howard Richards	           T	       Missouri
1979	27	Robert Shaw	           C	       Tennessee
1966	5	John Niland	           G	       Iowa
1964	4	Scott Appleton	           T	       Texas

I stand corrected... I was almost positive it was 3...