Pacman's Argument on Appeal

theogt

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A letter from Pacman's attorneys (Greenberg Traurig, L.L.P. -- one of the largest firms in the world) to the league regarding Pacman's appeal has been made public.

http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN7239256.PDF

In summary, the argument addressed in the letter is that Pacman's suspension is unprecedented. The argument is obvious, but the way they're going about it is pretty smart.

Pacman's suspension was based on four events:

1. A 2006 charge for obstruction of justice (which is pending).
2. Failure to report this charge for obstruction of justice.
3. A 2006 charge for disorderly conduct and public intoxiation (which was deferred).
4. Failure to report a charge for possession of marijuana (which was dismissed).

The lawyers are requesting information regarding the treatment of 283 other similar arrests/incidents of NFL players during a similar time span. They're requesting (1) the date upon which the incident was first reported by the player, (2) the disciplinary action taken for each arrest, and (3) whether the actions consitute "conduct detrimental to the [league]."

My argument has always been that Goodell has held players to double standards (largely a result of media/fan reaction). The information obtained from this request could be pretty damning in that regard for Goodell. This should be interesting to watch.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Its so blantantly obvious that he has a double standard and thatthe league as a whole has one. The league is jsut going to say that its not on the basis of race, religion, etc and they can do that.

The leagues image may very well take a hit anyway.
 

theogt

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FuzzyLumpkins;1504325 said:
Its so blantantly obvious that he has a double standard and thatthe league as a whole has one. The league is jsut going to say that its not on the basis of race, religion, etc and they can do that.

The leagues image may very well take a hit anyway.
Nail on the head. "Unfair treatment" isn't a legal defense. They're just trying to show how big of a double standard exists. It seems obvious to me (and you as well) that one exists.

Surprisingly, I don't think Goodell put a whole lot of thought into this whole process.
 

Rack

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So Pacman's defense is that 283 other (similiar) incidents occured where no discipline was administered?


Where any 4 of those 283 "incidents" done by ONE person? And did an off-duty cop (or was it a bouncer?) end up paralized in any of those "incidents"? Did any strippers get punched in the head in any of those "incidents"?


I wouldn't really say there's a "Double standard". Pacman last strike was just a big one. I have no doubt that if any other player did the EXACT same things Pacman did (with the same results), that player would get the same suspension.


The guy needs to stop crying about the suspension and start looking at the man in the mirror.
 

theogt

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Rack;1504337 said:
So Pacman's defense is that 283 other (similiar) incidents occured where no discipline was administered?


Where any 4 of those 283 "incidents" done by ONE person? And did an off-duty cop (or was it a bouncer?) end up paralized in any of those "incidents"? Did any strippers get punched in the head in any of those "incidents"?
This is irrelevant according to the letter. There may have been other factors in the decision to suspend Pacman, but the 4 I listed are the "official" reasons.

I wouldn't really say there's a "Double standard". Pacman last strike was just a big one. I have no doubt that if any other player did the EXACT same things Pacman did (with the same results), that player would get the same suspension.
Again, the last strike wasn't an official reason he was suspended.

The guy needs to stop crying about the suspension and start looking at the man in the mirror.
I agree with this, but Goodell is clearly in the wrong here, in my opinion. If he's going to give such heavy suspensions he should clearly set out the guidelines -- i.e., what consitutes a year suspension and what doesn't.
 

5Stars

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Rack;1504337 said:
So Pacman's defense is that 283 other (similiar) incidents occured where no discipline was administered?


Where any 4 of those 283 "incidents" done by ONE person? And did an off-duty cop (or was it a bouncer?) end up paralized in any of those "incidents"? Did any strippers get punched in the head in any of those "incidents"?


I wouldn't really say there's a "Double standard". Pacman last strike was just a big one. I have no doubt that if any other player did the EXACT same things Pacman did (with the same results), that player would get the same suspension.


The guy needs to stop crying about the suspension and start looking at the man in the mirror.


I wonder who had to read this letter to Pacman?

:rolleyes:
 

lspain1

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This is standard "moral relativism" argument. You can't punish me because you didn't punish all those "other guys" the exact same way. I'm out of control but the "system" is to blame. What a load of bunk! :mad:

Some of you folks say that Goodell has no right to make an example out of Jones or that he is employing a "double standard". More bunk! Jones is a highly paid (and very visible) employee. The Commissioner has every right to treat him as he sees fit for a series of infractions that showed no sign of abating. Where does it end? How do you people want the NFL to discipline a group of bad apples that use their money and position to literally "get out of jail free?"

If I break a rule in my company, most of the policies clearly state something like "penalties up to and including termination." Jones is a BAD Actor! The penalty is the message. Goodell is NOT at fault.
 

WoodysGirl

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theogt;1504339 said:
I agree with this, but Goodell is clearly in the wrong here, in my opinion. If he's going to give such heavy suspensions he should clearly set out the guidelines -- i.e., what consitutes a year suspension and what doesn't.
The thing is, Theogt, is he doesn't have to establish any guidelines as to what to expect. From reading the policy, it's all at the discretion of the Commish. They've got a basic fine and discipline schedule in place, but it still comes at the discretion of the Commish.

And it was done with the blessing of the NFLPA. Their bad.

The only way it can be changed is thru more negotiating of the CBA.
 

dargonking999

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There is no double standard. In those 283 inceidents, how many ended up in the newspaper. How many ended up on the News? Bottom line, they may use that as "Official reasons" but that doesn't mean that there were'nt other factors that were involved in this descion.

To even think that those 4 things, are the only reasons why he has a 1 year suspension is pure stupidty.

You can call it what you want. But if pacman acted like a man, not like some wanna be thug life punk, then this situation would not have even begun. This whole conduct policy started because of him, and he is reaping the punishment, and its about damn time.
 

5Stars

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lspain1;1504370 said:
This is standard "moral relativism" argument. You can't punish me because you didn't punish all those "other guys" the exact same way. I'm out of control but the "system" is to blame. What a load of bunk! :mad:

Some of you folks say that Goodell has no right to make an example out of Jones or that he is employing a "double standard". More bunk! Jones is a highly paid (and very visible) employee. The Commissioner has every right to treat him as he sees fit for a series of infractions that showed no signs of abating. Where does it end? How do you people want the NFL to discipline a group of bad apples that use their money and position to literally "get out of jail free?"

If I break a rule in my company, most of the policies clearly state something like "penalties up to and including termination." Jones is a BAD Actor! The penalty is the message. Goodell is NOT at fault.


I have to agree with you. Some may think it's unfair, different standards of punishment, whatever...but, IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE, and I have no problem with Goodell taking the lead. A precedent has to be set if that's what it takes to make these thugs realize that enough is enough!

Gasoline was $1.50 at one time! So what? It cost now what it costs!

Seems the double standard is saying, "Well, yeah, him and his thugs caused a man to be paralized...but, but, but, that other guy shot his gun at somebody and the gun was legal! How come the other guy does not get the same treatment as Pacman"?

Bizarre....

:rolleyes:

My motto? "Whatever it takes...do it"!
 

dargonking999

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5Stars;1504376 said:
I have to agree with you. Some may think it's unfair, different standards of punishment, whatever...but, IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE, and I have no problem with Goodell taking the lead. A precedent has to be set if that's what it takes to make these thugs realize that enough is enough!

Gasoline was $1.50 at one time! So what? It cost now what it costs!

Seems the double standard is saying, "Well, yeah, him and his thugs caused a man to be paralized...but, but, but, that other guy shot his gun at somebody and the gun was legal! How come the other guy does not get the same treatment as Pacman"?

Bizarre....

:rolleyes:

My motto? "Whatever it takes...do it"!


Well use your motto and go jump off a cliff ;)
 

5Stars

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dargonking999;1504387 said:
Well use your motto and go jump off a cliff ;)


Go buy a pitbull and go make some money. It appears your school is cheating you out of your tuition...

See how long it lasts...and don't get caught.

:cool:
 

dargonking999

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5Stars;1504389 said:
Go buy a pitbull and go make some money. It appears your school is cheating you out of your tuition...

See how long it lasts...and don't get caught.

:cool:


What?

That failed as a comeback, and barely made any sense. try again next time. Thank you and good day
 

5Stars

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dargonking999;1504391 said:
What?

That failed as a comeback, and barely made any sense. try again next time. Thank you and good day


You advocate dog fighting. I don't find it funny or amusing. Most intellegent people would find it disgusting!

:cool:
 

dargonking999

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5Stars;1504393 said:
You advocate dog fighting. I don't find it funny or amusing. Most intellegent people would find it disgusting!

:cool:

I do not advocate dog fighting. What ever you read, you might wanna read again. Cause I've said many times, i do not advocate dog fighting. So please, don't attempt to bring down my name
 

03EBZ06

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dargonking999;1504408 said:
I do not advocate dog fighting. What ever you read, you might wanna read again. Cause I've said many times, i do not advocate dog fighting. So please, don't attempt to bring down my name
I don't know but below post sure seems like you are condoning dog fighting to me.

dargonling999 said:
We pay to see grown men fight

but paying to see two dog's fight is wrong?

I seriously don't get that. We'll kill cows, dogs, birds, and pigs, to make food. We'll beat the crap out of each other for money. but you do it with dogs, and its a felony crime. and it's a big issue? i mean come on. Some of ya'll acting like some tree huggers
http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1496089&postcount=35
 

5Stars

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dargonking999;1504411 said:


So what? Those posts still convey that you see nothing wrong with dogfighting because there are other bad things going on in the world...

All things that are against the law should not be done. One law is not worse or better than another law!

If it's illegal (especially this crap) you don't do it or condone it, period!

Don't worry about your name...I don't know what the hell it means anyway.
 

dargonking999

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5Stars;1504421 said:
So what? Those posts still convey that you see nothing wrong with dogfighting because there are other bad things going on in the world...

All things that are against the law should not be done. One law is not worse or better than another law!

If it's illegal (especially this crap) you don't do it or condone it, period!

Don't worry about your name...I don't know what the hell it means anyway.

No, i said many times i dont condone dog fighting. Whether it's legal or not i dont condone it.

And you don't have to know what it means. You haven't been here long enough to know.
 
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