Discussion in 'Overtime Zone' started by Doomsday101, Aug 1, 2013.
I know I'm not getting into yet another Jerry disagreement at this point. Simply not worth my time.
I think very much Jerry acts exactly like I think he does. Parcells, a coach with skins on the wall, Jerry will lend an ear. Joe Blow the scout, Jerry will be less convinced.
I harken back to a Jerry story from years ago when he told this to the press. He had his geologists, or whatever tell him this one spot was a sure-fire place to sink a well and it would deliver.
Jerry asked all the scientists if they wanted to put their yearly salaries into the pile and they could get rich. He would step aside and allow them to bet on their sure-fire well.
So while so many try and say Jerry is this flexible leader that listens - and I don't doubt that - he waits until someone makes sense to come to a decision if there are multiple ideas floating.
And Jerry, the one guy in the room that bought his way into football instead of earning it makes the final call. Parcells just said so in his comment about changing Jerry's mind and being hands on.
We all fondly remember places we've been and might have hated it when we were there but now all the strife fades away.
I don't see Parcells saying anything that does not agree with what others have said about Jerry. He is in control, can be swayed to one side or another. But that congeniality doesn't cause him to make the right decision.
I think he did a terrible disservice as far as Romo is concerned. Tony Romo would be an overall much better player if Parcells hadn't cut-n-run when he did, and it only confirmed my opinion of him as a HC.
Parcells is a quitter
I have a lot of respect for him, but I always come back to this same sentiment... he is a quitter.
Heck he quit on the Patriots basically the week the played the Packers in the Superbowl in 1996.
He's quit on other team including the Cowboys.
Truth is difficult to deal with for some people. There have been so many that have made comments about how engaging Jerry is but he also is the final arbiter of what is about this team.
We can argue his record, but not his involvement.
I understand how you might want this to be different. Because if there is a consensus, then things could change for the better.
But if it is Jerry making the final decision when there is not a consensus, then that has a different look about it. Because as long as he is in charge this team is led by a man who has no background other than buying his way into a GM seat.
Your comment is duly noted because it is the usual when another former employee points out in a benign way that Jerry is in charge. As Parcells said.
I really believe they were close when he decided to leave... NEVER KNOW!
In a card game like Spades, this is called the trump card.
While there might be a national perception that Jerry Jones calls all of the shots and doesn’t listen to those around him, especially his head coach, Parcells says in his time there, that was the furthest thing from the truth, calling it a huge misperception about the Cowboys’ owner and general manager.
“Oh yeah, definitely. I think it’s distorted,” Parcells says. “I think there’s a definite misperception. I just think everyone thinks a certain way. I didn’t see it to be that way."
You have absolutely no chance of trumping Bill Parcells. None, zero, zip, nada. You'd have better luck trying to shove warm butter up an unchained, rabid widlcat's butt with a red hot poker under a July Death Valley sun.
I understand how you might WANT desperately for this to be different. After all, you, and a bunch of others have staked your reputations upon Jerry the meddler being the sum total of what is wrong in Dallas with the Cowboys. It is, and always has been a silly supposition to believe a man in a front office has more to do with outcome of football games than the players and coaches on the field. Now, on top of all that you've got an honest man like Parcells saying many things about Jerry are a misconception.
Not that he hasn't been saying this for a long time. Remember how everyone was so sure Jerry forced Terrell Owens on him? Listen to what Tuna says.
"I say, 'I support it,' and that's the way we go," Parcells said Friday. "I don't view it as a gamble. It's in my best interest that he's successful. And it's in his best interest that he's successful. ...
"I'm not approaching this with the idea it's going to be adversarial or I'm going to be mandating every little thing this player does."
Parcells mentioned several times that the decision to sign Owens was made by the team's entire front office, noting that picking players "is about a 50-50 proposition anyway."
"We work as a team here, we really do," he said. "We make decisions as an organization and we do it collectively, now more than ever.
''Whatever decision we make, we all support that. I support whatever decision we make as an organization. I was part of it, I continue to be part of it.
Once again...trump card hits the table. You may win a hand now and then, but you'll lose the game. You never had the cards.
Thus far every former scout or coach that has spoken up all say the same things. Jerry is a charming guy, and can be persuaded.
But each one of them have stated he makes the final decision in the cases where there isn't a consensus.
So while you don't agree and post the usual replies, you still ignore the parts where they all say the same thing. Jerry makes the final decision.
All the rest of your post is simply you justifying you hopeful position.
Some folks agenda is to love JJ and defend him....Some folks agenda is to bash him....BP says JJ did not interfere. Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer, Chan Gailey, Dave Campo, and Wade Phillips all said otherwise. I think Jason Garrett would be on the "he's involved" side as well.
As far as this story gos. I wish BP would have stayed. I think the TO thing drained him, as well as the huge spotlight of working under JJ and dealing with the media about that issue, made him throw in the towel. I like the old school discipline he brought, and when he left that discipline left with him. Jason has it back under control now. Who knows, maybeeee on day he will win a SB too and ultimately do something that BP couldn't do here in Dallas...
I think BP left because of TO. Although without a game breaking WR that TO was at that time I'm not sure we would have really taken a step to be the 13-3 type team we were that next year.
Frightening thing is, he did. He "listens" to everyone and anyone who can get his ear because he has to.
I don't ignore anything, except the media driven, sheep fan fantasies that have no basis in truth. You wanna listen to Tim McMahon and his brilliant (cough, cough) football analysis, be my guest. I'll listen to Bill Parcells, Wade Phillips, Jimmy Johnson, Stephen Jones, and Jason Garrett over him every day of the week. In fact, I'll listen to Bill Parcells over the entire current DFW media. I call that better information.
The fact of the matter is this team has always been geared towards giving the Head Coach what he wants, the better the Head Coach, the better the results of the Front Office. That cannot be denied. Look at the Drafts as evidence. Tom Ciskowski himself has told us that he and his department had to change their focus to what Garrett wants. That is always the same. The reason the Drafts sucked in the Campo years and got better when Parcells arrived is because of Parcells, not Larry Lacewell or Jeff Ireland. Certainly not because of Jerry and Stephen. Give Parcells the credit he deserves rather than searching for a scapegoat.
The Head Coach is always the catalyst. Trump.
That is why every Head Coach tells the fans and media that Jerry in fact is not meddling in football affairs, that it is a team decision, driven by the football people. Namely Garrett, Ciskowski and their staffs right now. That is why Jimmy tells you he had ultimate say in football affairs and Jerry made the money. That is why we had so many "Friends of Bill" arrive when Parcells did. Coincidence? Hell no, it is what the Head Coach asked for, and got. Funny how when Wade arrived we looked for guys with ties to him and his system. Trump.
The fact of the matter is Jerry is a better owner than Bum Bright by a country mile, and Clint Murchison is the Cowboys owner who provided the circus atmosphere in Dallas.
But see, I don't give two squirts of piss about Jerry Jones. So while you guys see me as defending him, that simply isn't the case. I am defending the Head Coaches. The actual football guys. The difference makers along with the players. I am putting success or failure on the football field, and guess what? The players and coaches do that too. Trump.
If you would like to take this offline, I will be sure to participate.
I would imagine the people here are tiring of the ranting about this issue. Or since you introduced it, the cussing.
I'm certain you know how to begin a conversation. So this public debate is at an end for me, sir.
Of course you may continue your philippic commentary as you choose. But don't be surprised if this thread is moved.
No matter how anyone since Johnson states it, he is the final decision maker.
He is not "behind the curtain".
Nobody else carries his power in the organization, no matter how "collective" the decision making process is described as.
He will decide to impose his will, when and where he wants.
It is not often, nor constant. In fact, he is a great listener. Again, because he has NO OTHER CHOICE.
That is your real "trump card" right there. He is at the whim of whomever he "listens" to.
Great post Hos.
Maybe that is how he got rich, because as successful as he is, he did not do it by himself. Maybe he's listening to Garrett this time? Rome was not build in a day.
I take it I just got threatened, since you used the word participate. Kudos. If you're coming to AZ holler.
I say hell all the time. Not sure why you consider that cussing, but oh well.
I didn't quote you to start the conversation. In fact, I wasn't talking to you at all. I was talking to Mike Winicki, and then I noted that after I posted a reply to him something I predicted happened not long after. Just like clockwork. Why that incited you, only you know. I can guess. If you want to end it, that's fine.
Why should I care if it gets moved? Or closed? If my defending the words of Bill Parcells causes issues I submit the issues aren't mine. He stomped a mudhole in the agenda Mike W was talking about, and he walked that sucker dry. Good for Bill Parcells. I hope people will listen to him, but I doubt they can because they've invested too much into the aforementioned (not by me) agenda.
If you want in on the conversation why not engage the guy using the words "trump card?"
Out of morbid curiosity who in the 49ers organization carries more power than Denise York? Who in the Eagles organization carries more power than Jeffrey Lurie? Do you think Tex Schramm carried more power than Clint Murchison or Bum Bright? If so, please explain to me why in 1966 Tex stepped out of the way and let Clint Murchison deal with the pressure to fire Landry, and Murchison is the one who gave Landry the 10 year extension. Please tell me why Tex allowed Bum bright to order Landry to hire Paul Hackett, and why he was ordering him to demote Ernie Stautner and moved to a 3-4 scheme at the time Jerry bought the team.
The green eyed jealousy over what an owner does, and what titles he gives himself is humorous, especially when it gets all caustic and Wizard of Oz. But there's just not much substance to the theories in the face of direct commentary by Jimmy, Wade, Bill, and Jason. How come no Head Coach fired by Jones hates him? How come none of them are playing your "trump card?"
If you have a trump card, it's the 2 of spades, and it gets trumped by the words of Bill Parcells in the OP. Sorry, Emmitt took all the diamonds and that was led.