Patrick Robinson deal put on hold **Update: Signs with Colts**

[Zimmy Lives]

I already forgot the guy's name but the thread is still entertaining.

 

[Stash]

People act like this is new strategy we are trying.

We haven't been players in FA for a long long time and we still haven't won.

We have to find a different boogeyman to blame.

Given the 20 years of relative futility, I think we've tried a whole bunch of different approaches that haven't worked.

 

[Plankton]

Given the 20 years of relative futility, I think we've tried a whole bunch of different approaches that haven't worked.

“Jerry doesn’t have a football philosophy, but I like what he does. He tries to get all the information he can. He’s not a talent evaluator. Now, some days he thinks he is. Some days I think I’m an oilman, but I’m not. He’s an oilman.”

- Bill Parcells

 

[Stash]

We draft better than the Patriots.

Based on what?

Both the Steelers and Patriots have been more active in free agency than we have been.

Since when? This year? New England picks their spots in free agency and typically do well when they do. The Steelers are seldom buyers at all. Super Fans want to throw a blanket on things that matches up with whatever this team decides to do or not do, and then they run to try to find a successful team that happens to employ the philosophy for this year.

Green Bay is our true model and everyone from Aaron Rodgers to their fans have complained about the work Ted Thompson has done. Foolishly complained I might add.

The key difference being that Thompson drafts well.

But I do hate spoiling a good rant with facts.

No worries on that, you haven't.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Based on what?



Since when? This year? New England picks their spots in free agency and typically do well when they do. The Steelers are seldom buyers at all. Super Fans want to throw a blanket on things that matches up with whatever this team decides to do or not do, and then they run to try to find a successful team that happens to employ the philosophy for this year.



The key difference being that Thompson drafts well.



No worries on that, you haven't.

I've made declarative statements about things I've had conversations with knowledgeable people about. Right here on this board.

You are welcome to use the Internet to corroborate or disprove what I've said. The Internet is great for that.

What I won't do is the homework for you... particularly because you're an unlikable curmudgeon who just wants to be angry. Your level of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

I make you this promise. If you come back with a reasonable and researched response I'll put my personal dislike for you aside and have a conversation.

 

[Stash]

I've made declarative statements about things I've had conversations with knowledgeable people about. Right here on this board.

You are welcome to use the Internet to corroborate or disprove what I've said. The Internet is great for that.

What I won't do is the homework for you... particularly because you're an unlikable curmudgeon who just wants to be angry. Your level of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Don't flatter yourself junior. I don't need to make any effort at all to disprove what amounts to nothing more than another Super Fan's opinion.

I make you this promise. If you come back with a reasonable and researched response I'll put my personal dislike for you aside and have a conversation.

Don't bother, just put me on ignore if you can't handle someone providing information about your team that you obviously can't handle. It'll be one less head cheerleader that I'd have to deal with and would be doing both of us a favor.

 

[gmoney112]

I've made declarative statements about things I've had conversations with knowledgeable people about. Right here on this board.

You are welcome to use the Internet to corroborate or disprove what I've said. The Internet is great for that.

What I won't do is the homework for you... particularly because you're an unlikable curmudgeon who just wants to be angry. Your level of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

I make you this promise. If you come back with a reasonable and researched response I'll put my personal dislike for you aside and have a conversation.

Deflection, projection, intellectualization, and rationalization all in one post. Impressive.

I've still yet to see you provide specifics to any question asked of you, backing your unwarranted narcissism on a sports forum.

I guess that's also what the Internet is great for, right?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Given the 20 years of relative futility, I think we've tried a whole bunch of different approaches that haven't worked.

It's not "approaches" that have failed.

It's the decision making within the approaches.

For example...

I do a lot of marketing consulting.

I'll visit with struggling brick & mortar retailers and I'll ask them...

"Are you doing any advertising?"

Them "No, advertising doesn't work. We tried it and it doesn't work."

"OK let me look at some of your advertising."

They in turn show me examples of their advertising and it's absolutely awful. Advertising that wouldn't draw flies.

Quite often I "fix" their advertising and they find advertising can work.

This goes back to the Cowboys problem... It's not the approaches.

It was their decision making within the approaches that was a uneven.

 

[gmoney112]

It's not "approaches" that have failed.

It's the decision making within the approaches.

For example...

I do a lot of marketing consulting.

I'll visit with struggling brick & mortar retailers and I'll ask them...

"Are you doing any advertising?"

Them "No, advertising doesn't work. We tried it and it doesn't work."

"OK let me look at some of your advertising."

They in turn show me examples of their advertising and it's absolutely awful. Advertising that wouldn't draw flies.

Quite often I "fix" their advertising and they find advertising can work.

This goes back to the Cowboys problem... It's not the approaches.

It was their decision making within the approaches that was a uneven.

The execution is often more important than the idea itself.

 

[Plankton]

It's not "approaches" that have failed.

It's the decision making within the approaches.

For example...

I do a lot of marketing consulting.

I'll visit with struggling brick & mortar retailers and I'll ask them...

"Are you doing any advertising?"

Them "No, advertising doesn't work. We tried it and it doesn't work."

"OK let me look at some of your advertising."

They in turn show me examples of their advertising and it's absolutely awful. Advertising that wouldn't draw flies.

Quite often I "fix" their advertising and they find advertising can work.

This goes back to the Cowboys problem... It's not the approaches.

It was their decision making within the approaches that was a uneven.

I would say it's more of a bedrock philosophy problem.

Parcells said it best - Jerry has no football philosophy. He's a follower. He will listen to the person who gets his ear, even if they are a crazy person (*cough* Lacewell *cough*).

They don't have a real solid profile on what they think a football player is. What scheme they want this player to fit into. How they gather talent on the team. Everything is reactive in nature, and not proactive.

Perfect example was the 2012 offseason. They went all in spending big resources on cornerback. They dropped $50M on Brandon Carr. They traded a first and second round pick to move up and select Morris Claiborne. Both guys were died in the wool man to man corners.

What do they do in the offseason? Fire the defensive coordinator who pounded the table for these guys, and switch schemes entirely, hiring a coordinator who prefers playing zone defense - a style that neither Carr nor Claiborne play particularly well.

They have been paying for that mistake for the last few years. It can also be extended to the disaster in selecting Martellus Bennett and Gavin Escobar in the second round of drafts, and not using them.

At the end of the day, if you don't have a bedrock philosophy of how to build your football team, you will continue to fail while changing philosophies every time the wind blows in a different direction.

 

[jjktkk]

I'm pretty disappointed we struck out on these FAs, but I also remember Dallas telling everyone that they were not going to be big spenders in free agency. ,so...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I would say it's more of a bedrock philosophy problem.

Parcells said it best - Jerry has no football philosophy. He's a follower. He will listen to the person who gets his ear, even if they are a crazy person (*cough* Lacewell *cough*).

They don't have a real solid profile on what they think a football player is. What scheme they want this player to fit into. How they gather talent on the team. Everything is reactive in nature, and not proactive.

Perfect example was the 2012 offseason. They went all in spending big resources on cornerback. They dropped $50M on Brandon Carr. They traded a first and second round pick to move up and select Morris Claiborne. Both guys were died in the wool man to man corners.

What do they do in the offseason? Fire the defensive coordinator who pounded the table for these guys, and switch schemes entirely, hiring a coordinator who prefers playing zone defense - a style that neither Carr nor Claiborne play particularly well.

They have been paying for that mistake for the last few years. It can also be extended to the disaster in selecting Martellus Bennett and Gavin Escobar in the second round of drafts, and not using them.

At the end of the day, if you don't have a bedrock philosophy of how to build your football team, you will continue to fail while changing philosophies every time the wind blows in a different direction.

Agreed.

The team (Jerry) has had this "Looking for a gusher" mentality... Instead of following a "Let's string 3 singles together" it was "Swing for the fences" mentality, which for a sport where you field a team of dozens of players, it's pretty darn difficult for one player to make enough difference to compensate for too many below average players at key positions.

I don't have as bad a feelings about the TE's or the Mo trade-up (even though I thought it was ill-advised) as I do the investment in guys like Quincy Carter, Joey Galloway and Roy Williams (the WR)– those were a "car-wreck" from the word GO.

That said I think the decision making over the past 3 years has improved somewhat. Again I do not have as much angst over the Escobar pick.

 

[Plankton]

Agreed.

The team (Jerry) has had this "Looking for a gusher" mentality... Instead of following a "Let's string 3 singles together" it was "Swing for the fences" mentality, which for a sport where you field a team of dozens of players, it's pretty darn difficult for one player to make enough difference to compensate for too many below average players at key positions.

I don't have as bad a feelings about the TE's or the Mo trade-up (even though I thought it was ill-advised) as I do the investment in guys like Quincy Carter, Joey Galloway and Roy Williams (the WR)– those were a "car-wreck" from the word GO.

That said I think the decision making over the past 3 years has improved somewhat. Again I do not have as much angst over the Escobar pick.

I wouldn't have had an issue with the Escobar pick if they actually had a plan in place to use him. A second round pick should be a starter. We are going into Year Four of the Escobar era, and he's at best a fringe contributor. I don't think it's because he can't play - it's because they had no plan as to how to utilize him correctly. And, if they didn't, they shouldn't have used a second round pick on him.

For the Claiborne trade up, if they were going to change course one season after making a commitment to press man corners, that shows a major philosophical issue. By trading up for Claiborne, they in effect traded two starters for one. The Cowboys of 2012 needed volume as much as quality in the draft, and they ended up getting neither.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I wouldn't have had an issue with the Escobar pick if they actually had a plan in place to use him. A second round pick should be a starter. We are going into Year Four of the Escobar era, and he's at best a fringe contributor. I don't think it's because he can't play - it's because they had no plan as to how to utilize him correctly. And, if they didn't, they shouldn't have used a second round pick on him.

For the Claiborne trade up, if they were going to change course one season after making a commitment to press man corners, that shows a major philosophical issue. By trading up for Claiborne, they in effect traded two starters for one. The Cowboys of 2012 needed volume as much as quality in the draft, and they ended up getting neither.

The Mo thing was what happens when you have a coach (Ryan) who obviously had too much pull when it came to influencing who the team chose. He screamed for corners and Jerry & Co. accommodated him.

 

[Plankton]

The Mo thing was what happens when you have a coach (Ryan) who obviously had too much pull when it came to influencing who the team chose. He screamed for corners and Jerry & Co. accommodated him.

The Mo thing is what happens when the person leading your talent procurement has no bedrock football philosophy. The influence from a coach is a symptom, not the ultimate disease or basic root cause.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Mo thing was what happens when you have a coach (Ryan) who obviously had too much pull when it came to influencing who the team chose. He screamed for corners and Jerry & Co. accommodated him.

I don't think Ryan needed all that much pull. Jerry signed Sanders famously against his advisers wishes and won a title; he has drafted Newman and others early and often. He clearly values to position in his own right.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't think Ryan needed all that much pull. Jerry signed Sanders famously against his advisers wishes and won a title; he has drafted Newman and others early and often. He clearly values to position in his own right.

Oh no question Jerry is a CB guy .

Having Rob Ryan in the same room made for cataclysmic draft-day results.

That being said, if Mo was anywhere close to being the player he was projected to be by many smart people– this discussion wouldn't be happening.

 

[Nightman]

I wouldn't have had an issue with the Escobar pick if they actually had a plan in place to use him. A second round pick should be a starter. We are going into Year Four of the Escobar era, and he's at best a fringe contributor. I don't think it's because he can't play - it's because they had no plan as to how to utilize him correctly. And, if they didn't, they shouldn't have used a second round pick on him..

Someone told them that a team with a 12 personnel package could dominate. Only it wasn't the guy calling the plays. Classic Cowboys.

 

[fishspill]

The Mo thing was what happens when you have a coach (Ryan) who obviously had too much pull when it came to influencing who the team chose. He screamed for corners and Jerry & Co. accommodated him.

But then it seems to work at times such as the passing on Floyd for a trade down. This year I'm betting we can see how much pull the coaches have if they pass on a QB up high if there is an appropriate one available. I doubt they are interested in picking someone who will be starting long after they were given their walking papers.