Pats Fan - Now you know what we know

[lspain1]

It cracks me up to hear our fans talking about..."well if the offensive line would block for Bledsoe" or "Tom Brady, Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning could not do well behind this O-line"

Listen folks that is crap...crap, crap, crap

you had about 50 of us telling you that the o-line was gonna suck now...well before the season began....hmmmmmmmmmm

How could we all possibly have known that you ask ? Are we physic?

No silly... it is always the same with Bledsoe...ALWAYS

you can take the team with the best o-line in the game right now stick Bledsoe behind it and they become very average or even poor over night...now you take what Dallas has an average O-line at best and stick Bledsoe behind it and you have no chance none...

Bledsoe can throw the ball...no one that I know of has ever doubted that.. the man simply has a million dollar arm but the rest isn't worth 10 cents...

think about it... and also remember old Dave Campo was pulling people off the street one year and the o-line didn't look this bad...


so please give those o-lineman some love they really are doing there best but Bledsoe makes what would be a hard job under normal circumstances as near impossible as it can get

You and I disagree completely on what is wrong with our offense. If what you are saying was ANYWHERE near correct, we would have some semblance of a running game. And we don't.

I am not defending Bledsoe, but our O-Line is a shambles right now. And trying to lay that at the feet of Bledsoe is wrong. I hope the Cowboys see it differently than you do. Your approach would lead us to having a David Carr/Texans situation, with a QB running for his life.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Myself and others refused to sip the "Bledsoe" koolaid. We spelled out exactly what would happen this year-- both good & bad. But many chose to "See no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil". And now they're beside themselves...

Lot's of sacks on Bledsoe-- Wow! What a shock!
Failure to score points on the road-- Gee I've never seen Bledsoe struggle with that before!
Losing big games-- Not our man Drew!
Second half collapse-- Never seen it coming!

Drew IS BETTER than Vinny, Quincy or Chad... He's the best since Aikman left. And he's had a good season... but it's not good enough. We miss the playoffs after that wonderful start and people need to be held responsible. Bill Parcells and Drew Bledsoe should be at the front of the line.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Not relevant. Bledsoe has a LONG history of doing exactly what the original post said. It has nothing to do with Tucker and Petitti

That is by far the silliest post I've read here in a long time.

Tucker's penalties and their turnstyle blocking techniques have nothing to do with Bledsoe's struggles?

Are you serious?

I would really like somebody to point out to me when was the last time they felt the Cowboys had a truly good O-Line.

I'd say 1998, but some may give you 1999.

Rich................
wonders how well that terrific Bills O-Line is doing this year.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Lot's of sacks on Bledsoe-- Wow! What a shock!

Guess what, they gave up a lot of sacks before Drew was here. The Bills have given up a lot of sacks since Drew has left.

Failure to score points on the road-- Gee I've never seen Bledsoe struggle with that before!

28 versus SD. 34 versus SF this year.

Losing big games-- Not our man Drew!

Beat a T.O & McNabb team early on in the year. Also beat Philly on the road. Beat the NYG early in the year. SD first game of the season....on the road. Kansas City when they are fighting to make the playoffs.

Second half collapse-- Never seen it coming!

Yes, because injuries to the O-Line and the subsequent dropoff in quality of O-Line play has nothing to do with it. None.



Rich.........

 

[Zaxor]

You and I disagree completely on what is wrong with our offense. If what you are saying was ANYWHERE near correct, we would have some semblance of a running game. And we don't.

I am not defending Bledsoe, but our O-Line is a shambles right now. And trying to lay that at the feet of Bledsoe is wrong. I hope the Cowboys see it differently than you do. Your approach would lead us to having a David Carr/Texans situation, with a QB running for his life.

we can't run because teams clog the middle and why do they clog the middle?

 

[TSquare]

I am not saying that Drew is better than Brady. But I would like to see How Brady could manage this team with an o-line like ours and most of his options are on the line blocking.

At the depths of their offensive line problems in Oct and Nov(not as bad as Dallas' problems, IMO.) The Pats went 4-4. During that time, Tom Brady had a very rough go of it. 8 Int's during that stretch and and a passer rating under 80 in 4 of those games (42 in one!) 9 sacks and 6 INT's in November.

Nobody (myself included. yes, I'm a Pats fan and a "Bledsoe enthusiast) but NOBODY blames Brady for the team (or his) performance during that stretch. By the way. Brady has a few 100+ ratings thrown in during that time when the team opened up on some suspect defenses. Sound familiar? It should.

 

[Zaxor]

That is by far the silliest post I've read here in a long time.

Tucker's penalties and their turnstyle blocking techniques have nothing to do with Bledsoe's struggles?

Are you serious?

I would really like somebody to point out to me when was the last time they felt the Cowboys had a truly good O-Line.

I'd say 1998, but some may give you 1999.

Rich................
wonders how well that terrific Bills O-Line is doing this year.

Well lets take a look shall we

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating

Kelly Holcomb 162 108 1017 66.7 6.3 7 4.3 3 1.9 55 12/108 90.5

now this here is Kelly Holcomb journeyman's 8 games total....

I did not include losman because he is essential a rookie and it would be a bit of an unfair comparison to a 13 year vet...

now here is Bledsoe numbers from Buffalo

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
Drew Bledsoe 450 256 2932 56.9 6.5 20 4.4 16 3.6 69 37/215 76.6


Now this like I said is only 8 games for Holcomb...but he just beat the slobber out of Bledsoe

should we do the same exercise with NE and Brady?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Well lets take a look shall we

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating

Kelly Holcomb 162 108 1017 66.7 6.3 7 4.3 3 1.9 55 12/108 90.5

now this here is Kelly Holcomb journeyman's 8 games total....

I did not include losman because he is essential a rookie and it would be a bit of an unfair comparison to a 13 year vet...

now here is Bledsoe numbers from Buffalo

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
Drew Bledsoe 450 256 2932 56.9 6.5 20 4.4 16 3.6 69 37/215 76.6


Now this like I said is only 8 games for Holcomb...but he just beat the slobber out of Bledsoe

should we do the same exercise with NE and Brady?

Ouch!

 

[Bull Frog]

How do I start this. Perhaps to say that when there is a Drew fan they never get over it. In New England, in Buffalo, next Dallas. You cannot tell these people anything. Drew is God.

Now for those of us that can think, we say, well, yeh, one week out of 5 he is great, but then he falls apart. We will never win long term, consistently, over the long haul.

Here is the clear and simple answer. Bledose is a great QB in terms of throwing the ball, hitting his first receiver (the one the coach tells him to throw to).

Now, if there is pressure, or gee he has to find a secondary receiver and see the whole field -- trouble. Happy feet time. Can not handle pressure. Cannot see the whole field or make on the fly decisions. My talent will overcome that. Yeh, one game out of ?????????

I often thought how is it possible that with the same team Bledsoe was losing and Brady comes in and wins the SB. I have given it thought. But the answer is quite simple. Bledsoe has talent sure (throwing wise better than Brady). But it takes much, much more to win. Brady, well better than OK talent. But guts, heart, determination, he sees the whole field, can adjust, is calm under pressure (took a nap before the SB), releases the ball quickly, elevates his play when the stakes get higher, etc. etc. Just one heck of a QB. So talent wise, meaning you can throw the ball, sure Bledsoe. But winning, well that's just another ball game. I am going to win, I am not going to lose. I am calm. I will do whatever is necessary, I am going to win. What is it in throwing a darn ball, I can do it, and I will win.

So welcome to the third Bledsoe team of pain. Some of you will forever sing his praises -- others will wake up and smell the roses in a very short period of time (like me in New England). He may go the the Hall of Fame, but you know what, he has not done a darn thing except throw the ball well on occassion. Gee. So what. Get off the field already.

That's all I have to say. For all you Bledsoe lovers, please don't wait for any SB -- NOT. In 1996 Bledsoe had Curtis Martin as a running back, Terry Glenn as a receiver, and Ben Coates as the Tight End, and the bum still could not win the SB. Bum, double bum. Over-rated. But oh, can he throw the ball!!!!!!!!

Wrong team, my bad

 

[DipChit]

Montana with a bunch of bums around him wearing Chiefs uniforms went into Denver on Monday Night Football and came from behind to beat Elway in his own city.

Enough said.

He actually gave players like Willie Davis the right to think Superbowl. That same year he guided these same Chiefs to utterly destroy Steve Young and the eventual Superbowl winner 49ers in a total blowout.

OT, but what the heck are you talking about? Enough said based on one particular game? That was a great game but the Broncos werent good at all in '94. That was the Wade Phillips "era". Leonard Russell was their leading rusher that year.

And gave players like Davis the "right to think" SB? Elway gave players like Sammy Winder the "right to play" in them. More than once.

And how was beating the Niners in week 2 at Arrowhead that particular year 24-17 "utterly destroying" and a "total blowout". I dont really remember that particular game so perhaps "the game wasnt as close as the score would indicate"?

Now a couple weeks later when the Niners hosted the Kotite lead Eagles and lost 40-8, the terms utterly destroyed and total blowout might pertain.

Anyway, if you wanted to argue Montana was better than Elway, thats fine. You obviously wouldnt be alone in drawing that conclusion. But I'd think you'd need to use better examples than these.

 

[RCowboyFan]

Well lets take a look shall we

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating

Kelly Holcomb 162 108 1017 66.7 6.3 7 4.3 3 1.9 55 12/108 90.5

now this here is Kelly Holcomb journeyman's 8 games total....

I did not include losman because he is essential a rookie and it would be a bit of an unfair comparison to a 13 year vet...

now here is Bledsoe numbers from Buffalo

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
Drew Bledsoe 450 256 2932 56.9 6.5 20 4.4 16 3.6 69 37/215 76.6


Now this like I said is only 8 games for Holcomb...but he just beat the slobber out of Bledsoe

should we do the same exercise with NE and Brady?

Nice comparison stat there man. But like Pats Fan said, there is no changing minds about Bledsoe. It was the same deal with Quincy, till he was booted out of here.

Everyone see the great throws he can make and are in love with that. Rest of the drawbacks are now throw out of the way. Its amazing that someone can watch the tape and say that Bledsoe doesn't hold the ball that much.

Well, this is going to be all off-season Debate with 100s of threads discussed to death about this. And you know what, next year, Bledsoe will start regardless of what BP mouths about competition in TC, if he even says that, and we will be the same thing next year about OL and protection.

 

[kojak]

Is it really fair to put all of the blame on Bledsoe? I think if a team goes out and gets a QB, who has been around the block. They should know what kind of QB he is before they even bring him in.

So wouldn't you want to assemble a team that would benefit him the best? See that's what I don't get. Maybe it's just me, I haven't really followed Bledsoe's career. I have seen games this year where he was unstoppable when he had the protection, and now since the protection isn't relaible anymore he isn't as effective as he was.

kind of hard for a pocket passer to be effective when there is no pocket to pass in, and no recievers to throw to sicne they are being asked to block. So I ask you, what he is to do. Run? Well we already know he can't run. And if that's the best we can do for protection. Then yes we need another QB, because it's never going to work.

If the running game has failed because teams clog the middle because of Drew. Then why do we run the ball up the middle most of the time? You would think since they brought him in, they would already be aware of this.

I guess I need to see the guy play behind a good O-line for a full year so I can get a opinion of the guy. Because so far I wouldn't think anyone could be Very sucessful behind this o-line. Not a pocket passer anyway.

 

[silver]

tom brady is the best qb in football today. he's the equivalent of roger staubach. enjoy him because time flies when you have a guy like that on your team.

 

[Zaxor]

Is it really fair to put all of the blame on Bledsoe? I think if a team goes out and gets a QB, who has been around the block. They should know what kind of QB he is before they even bring him in.

So wouldn't you want to assemble a team that would benefit him the best? See that's what I don't get. Maybe it's just me, I haven't really followed Bledsoe's career. I have seen games this year where he was unstoppable when he had the protection, and now since the protection isn't relaible anymore he isn't as effective as he was.

kind of hard for a pocket passer to be effective when there is no pocket to pass in, and no recievers to throw to sicne they are being asked to block. So I ask you, what he is to do. Run? Well we already know he can't run. And if that's the best we can do for protection. Then yes we need another QB, because it's never going to work.

If the running game has failed because teams clog the middle because of Drew. Then why do we run the ball up the middle most of the time? You would think since they brought him in, they would already be aware of this.

I guess I need to see the guy play behind a good O-line for a full year so I can get a opinion of the guy. Because so far I wouldn't think anyone could be Very sucessful behind this o-line. Not a pocket passer anyway.

No it isn't fair...and it shouldn't be done there are other problems on this team...

but there are those that think he isn't one of them... and that isn't right

 

[Yakuza Rich]

No it isn't fair...and it shouldn't be done there are other problems on this team...

but there are those that think he isn't one of them... and that isn't right

I've always accepted Bledsoe as being limited. I thought he played very poorly against Seattle and did have some decent protection there. I understand that the O-Line has to be pretty good in order for him to succeed. And I understand that Brady is a better QB.

My point is that the O-Line play is bad and it really has very little to do with Bledsoe. And while Bledsoe is limited in the sense they need some pretty good O-Line play for him to be effective, that's what I want. I don't want "okay" line play. I don't want "mediocre" line play.

I WANT good O-Line play, regardless of who is QB'ing this team.

Rich..........

 

[RCowboyFan]

I've always accepted Bledsoe as being limited. I thought he played very poorly against Seattle and did have some decent protection there. I understand that the O-Line has to be pretty good in order for him to succeed. And I understand that Brady is a better QB.

My point is that the O-Line play is bad and it really has very little to do with Bledsoe. And while Bledsoe is limited in the sense they need some pretty good O-Line play for him to be effective, that's what I want. I don't want "okay" line play. I don't want "mediocre" line play.

I WANT good O-Line play, regardless of who is QB'ing this team.

Rich..........

Well I want Good QB play regardless of how less then perfect the OL is. That applied when Campo picked people off the street to play OL in 2002.

So what you want or I want don't matter. The bottom line is Cowboys are not winning when it matters most. OL is a big issue, and I think who is playing the QB is bigger issue.

Its one thing, if Bledsoe was performing bad only here in Dallas. History proves otherwise, whether you or I want to believe it or not, is immaterial. The biggest proof in the pudding is, last year, their biggest game of the year, against Backup Steeler players, Drew Bledsoe led team at home, just laid a massive egg. I guess you could say, its not his fault. True, its not entirely a QB fault. And yes, too much of blame and too much Credit goes to QB in a team. But, thats the nature of the position. A team is a big reflection of first the HC and then the QB, especially on Offense.

So, some of us guys, who have been against Bledsoe, expected this situation well before the season started and none of us changed our minds when he had few good games. I can't research the post I made, but I was one of those trying to put Brakes on Bledsoe for MVP talk, and that we should wait till late season, when usually the MVPs are decided.

Bottom line, true, all of team's fault doesn't lie on Bledsoe, no way. But all of OL issues don't fall on them either. There is a such thing call confidence. When your QB is holding onto the ball and getting unneccessary sacks, when Protection has been decent, it kills their confidence too. Especially on young OL. Belichek said one the reasons that he made change was because OL said that Brady helps them a lot by getting rid of the ball quicker, while Bledsoe causes more issues by his holding onto the ball. Heck BP said few weeks ago the QB has to help by getting rid of the ball quicker. At times, rare times, Bledsoe does that, but on road, he is just back to his old self.

 

[jterrell]

Well lets take a look shall we

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating

Kelly Holcomb 162 108 1017 66.7 6.3 7 4.3 3 1.9 55 12/108 90.5

now this here is Kelly Holcomb journeyman's 8 games total....

I did not include losman because he is essential a rookie and it would be a bit of an unfair comparison to a 13 year vet...

now here is Bledsoe numbers from Buffalo

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
Drew Bledsoe 450 256 2932 56.9 6.5 20 4.4 16 3.6 69 37/215 76.6


Now this like I said is only 8 games for Holcomb...but he just beat the slobber out of Bledsoe

should we do the same exercise with NE and Brady?

I would argue that beating the snot out of someone requires a bit more than a higher completion percentage which carries QB rating.

Drew passed for about 3 times as many yards in twice as many games. 2932 to 1017.

Bledsoe did get sacked significantly more and clearly took more chances throwing more picks.

BUT it would also be sensible to note: A) Bledsoe was far better with McGahee starting and B) he had the Bills 1 game shy of the playoffs.

It also might make sense to note the current right side Bennie Anderson and Maike Gandy were free agent additions especially if comparing protections.

 

[Zaxor]

Nice comparison stat there man. But like Pats Fan said, there is no changing minds about Bledsoe. It was the same deal with Quincy, till he was booted out of here.

Everyone see the great throws he can make and are in love with that. Rest of the drawbacks are now throw out of the way. Its amazing that someone can watch the tape and say that Bledsoe doesn't hold the ball that much.

Well, this is going to be all off-season Debate with 100s of threads discussed to death about this. And you know what, next year, Bledsoe will start regardless of what BP mouths about competition in TC, if he even says that, and we will be the same thing next year about OL and protection.

I was... relieved when Carter was released... I had felt a burden was lifted off the team... but instead of moving forward at the position we just spin our wheels (grrrr):grrr:... I had thought Bill was gonna get rid of the deadbeats but instead he coddles them...thats insane:insane:...I have been watching the Cowboys since 1968-69 and can not remember a more strange 3 year span for the life of me... For an example look at the o-line lineup when he got here and look at the o-line now... say what you want but it seems we are rudderless and adrift... I have no idea what Bill's plan is :geek: but I do know that he does not tell "THE" truth but maybe a form of "a" truth :liarliar:... now I realize we have to crawl :crawl: before we can run :a-team: but it seems we are just dancing :fogeys: around the problems...

Jerry has been willing to spend :jackpotn whatever Bill has asked for but for some reason the majority of the players aren't very good :blech: (i.e. Wiley, Ward, etc...)

Maybe Bill has grown too old :geezer: or maybe he just wants us to kiss his *** :moon: but whatever it is it isn't working

.....


Wow can you tell I just got finished watching a docu. on ancient egypt

 

[jterrell]

No it isn't fair...and it shouldn't be done there are other problems on this team...

but there are those that think he isn't one of them... and that isn't right

If you mean the same way Jake Delhomme and Mike Vick are problems I agree. Most QBs are not perfect and being imperfect hurts their team.

Bledsoe is a passer. He needs a WR and protection. He is not any good when he can't pass. There are no improvisization type plays. He is stubborn to a fault in waiting out plays.

But again there were plenty of folks who felt Bledsoe had a Pro Bowl season. Thsi with a season long rookie starter at RT and an injury replacement at LT that 90% of the folks on this board felt was gonna get cut in camp.

 

[kojak]

Then fine if Bledsoe needs to get rid of the ball quicker, then get him some receivers that will get open alot quicker. The Ones we have now aren't very good at it. Another reason why the coach needs to bring in players to fit his QB. If he can't figure that out then he has no business bringing him in, or should just retire because the game has passed him by.