Penalties... No Tashard Choice

[Vtwin]

How is it that EVERY fan in the stadium was not on their feet booing at the top of their lungs at about the third flag on the o-line?
quote]

Really? You think booing will help? That's what good fans do? I believe you have your priorities backwards.

Dallas fans apparently have no idea what to do at a football game.

Do you know what the definition of "insane" is?


You don't think an entire stadium full of fans expressing their displeasure at the unbelievably undisciplined play would send a message?

Geeze, it's not like this is some sort of anomally. It happens each and every week and has cost us games. Who here didn't say "on no, here we go again" when the O-line started in when the game was still very competitive?

What harm could come of it? Sitting in your hands and saying "that's ok. they'll do better next time" has worked so well, right?

Not doing what ever little bit you can to try and send a message makes me question your priorities.

And I am sure 80 thousand fans booing you because you couldn't remember the snap count AGAIN will make an impression.

What could it hurt?

 

[kmd24]

I think our expectations around penalties are unreasonable. 8 penalties for 50 yards is not good performance, but it's not horrific. Last season, NFL teams averaged 5.6 penalties per game for 44.5 yards.

 

[odog422]

Then please enlighten us to why Barber is in and Choice was not? I know Garrett does not know what he is doing, isn't that the line being used by those who are not at practice or meetings but only sees what the TV shows

What's the point at this juncture? Youre response is based on your interpretation of why the coaches have the players playing the roles they do, yet your every response drops with sarcasm at anyone basing their opinions of the players roles on exactly the same thing you are - your opinion.

You raise the blocking issue to no avail, then create the "oh he's smarter than a coach" ruse.

I suggested Choice as an alternative due to his production and Barber's health issues. You haven't presented a valid case to counterargue, so instead you try to turn it into a some sort of pointless, sarcastic diatribe, simply because you have no valid answers.

 

[Doomsday101]

What's the point at this juncture? Youre response is based on your interpretation of why the coaches have the players playing the roles they do, yet your every response drops with sarcasm at anyone basing their opinions of the players roles on exactly the same thing you are - your opinion.

You raise the blocking issue to no avail, then create the "oh he's smarter than a coach" ruse.

I suggested Choice as an alternative due to his production and Barber's health issues. You haven't presented a valid case to counterargue, so instead you try to turn it into a some sort of pointless, sarcastic diatribe, simply because you have no valid answers.

You gave your opinion is all you are giving. Yes I do think Garrett has his reasons and yes I think his reasons are based on a lot more than yours. He is with these guys day in and day out and has a better clue as their abilities. I know you don't like it but that is fact. Sorry I get tired of people ripping on Garrett seems to me his offense put 27 points up yesterday and did a damn good job but instead of good job all I see is the same whining

 

[Chief]

I'd like to see Choice get some carries, as we all would, but folks be realistic here.

You've got 3 backs who you want to see get the ball. Two TE's who we'd like to see getting the ball. 3 WR's who you want to see getting the ball. For Christ sakes unless we average 80 plays a game you're not going to see all the guys getting the ball in every game. It's just not going to happen.

There are only so many plays a game and they've got to get the ball in the hands of every one of their playmakers that they can. Unfortunately some games Choice will be the odd man out. Some games it's going to be Felix. Others it will be Bennett. Sometimes it will be Williams, Crayton, Witten or Austin.

Unless we start running 80 or more plays a game and scoring 40 or more points a game you're not going to be 100% happy with the amount of touches that they all get.

 

[odog422]

You gave your opinion is all you are giving. Yes I do think Garrett has his reasons and yes I think his reasons are based on a lot more than yours. He is with these guys day in and day out and has a better clue as their abilities. I know you don't like it but that is fact. Sorry I get tired of people ripping on Garrett seems to me his offense put 27 points up yesterday and did a damn good job but instead of good job all I see is the same whining

Maybe you need to relax a little and stop taking things so personal. I didn't "rip" Garrett. And I definitely didn't rip you. It's a message board. Comprised of opinions mostly. Maybe you should get a better handle on that before losing the ability to discuss a point rationally.

Guess what else? Garrett and every coach and player on that team is human and subject to error. Yeah, really, it does happen. And oh, once in a while a person can express an opinion and actually be factually correct, as well.

And finally, best advice I've ever seen on this board - if you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[Jarv]

Barber is the better blocker sorry if you don't believe that. This is not to say Choice can't block but I think the staff has a bit more faith that Barber will keep Romo standing more so than Choice. Not a knock on Choice but the staff believe it or not sees these guys thought out the week there is a reason they play certain guys more than others. I know fans like to think they know best fact is they don't they do not know half of what the coaches see throughout the entire process. There is so much crap people come up with from Wade does not want to hurt feeling? This staff knows their players better than Any of us.

Okay, then put Choice in for some run plays, not that hard to figure out.

 

[Doomsday101]

Okay, then put Choice in for some run plays, not that hard to figure out.

No doubt he did not play much in this game but we are also dealing with 3 RB, sorry if they do not play the guy you want. I like all 3 of our backs and like seeing Choice play as well but I don't get my panties in a wad when my personal wants are not put into play. In the end it is about winning and this offense yesterday went out and played a solid game putting up 27 points. I don't have too much to complain about. It seems to be more important to fulfill your own personal wants.

 

[rangers71]

Here is the simple solution. I think we should just release Barber since he is a washed up has been and go from there. Then all of you Choice homers will shut up because you got what you asked for. At least you will until he has a bad game or is injured and then will ***** because we have no one that can fill in for him and then you will want to run him out of town.

 

[Doomsday101]

Maybe you need to relax a little and stop taking things so personal. I didn't "rip" Garrett. And I definitely didn't rip you. It's a message board. Comprised of opinions mostly. Maybe you should get a better handle on that before losing the ability to discuss a point rationally.

Guess what else? Garrett and every coach and player on that team is human and subject to error. Yeah, really, it does happen. And oh, once in a while a person can express an opinion and actually be factually correct, as well.

And finally, best advice I've ever seen on this board - if you don't like it, don't read it.

Why I listen to you genius constantly ripping everything about this team throughout the off season, win or lose some jerk come out whining so I find if fun poking my finger right back into their face. If you don't want to hear me praise the staff and this team for a job well done yesterday then don't read it. :laugh2:

 

[odog422]

Why I listen to you genius constantly ripping everything about this team throughout the off season, win or lose some jerk come out whining so I find if fun poking my finger right back into their face. If you don't want to hear me praise the staff and this team for a job well done yesterday then don't read it. :laugh2:

Think you have some comprehension issues my man. But hey, no biggie. You don't get it, or rather get me. You see something you don't agree with and you're off and are basically upset because someone thinks differently than you. That's cool.

 

[odog422]

Here is the simple solution. I think we should just release Barber since he is a washed up has been and go from there. Then all of you Choice homers will shut up because you got what you asked for. At least you will until he has a bad game or is injured and then will ***** because we have no one that can fill in for him and then you will want to run him out of town.

Simpler one...read what I wrote just a little slower, and maybe you won't miss the point next time.

 

[jobberone]

In many cases yes they do. It depends on the call that is coming in. If your the RB and your swinging out into the flats you better not get hung up blocking

You're wrong here. The first priority is to stop anyone who can hit the QB. The QB can throw the ball away but you don't risk injury to the QB or a negative play. Many times you can still chuck the rusher and get out. Unless it's a screen play then you must pick up the rusher. Even with a screen you may have to bust the play to pick up the rusher although that shouldn't happen often.

That's not my point. My point is Barber is clearly not healthy. That being the case, why not utilize an extremely effective option? It bothers me to see Barber laboring when a healthy, productive back is on the bench.

I think Barber was healthy running the ball. I will admit he possibly could still be less than 100% leg wise but I doubt it. If you're arguing he couldn't catch the ball I'd point out that we don't dump off to the RB a lot or run a lot of traditional screens. Now if you're arguing Choice is the better running back period I'll respect your opinion. Right now I'm on the fence.

Because they feel Choice is better coming out of the back field. Sorry on 3rd down passing situation many times the back is going out into the rout guys like Westbrook have made a good living at doing just that. If you can't understand that then sorry.

I don't know they feel Choice is the better back coming out of the backfield. They may be just giving TC some touches there since he is productive doing that. I'm happy with any of the three blocking or being the third down back. But Barber is clearly the better blocker of the three. I think Choice can be adequate in general although he does leave his feet on occasion.

And again you're wrong about a back not having to adjust to someone coming in unabetted to the QB. You're the one not understanding the RBs duties. I will admit a lot of RBs don't make that adjustment or a rush is delayed long enough to make it a moot point.

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

My only two complaints with this win.

The penalties...we all know, they have to be cleaned up because over the long haul, we'll pay with a loss. Don't know what to say that hasn't been said in terms of getting and keeping these down. But games would be so much easier if we got out of our own way.

No carries for Tashard? This one really burns me. Especially when Barber isn't healthy. Especially when Felix isn't healthy. Especially when this kid has proven time and again against the league's best he can get it done. What more does he have to do?

I'm as confident as can be without being an actual soothsayer to guarantee he would've averaged better than Barber's 3.4 YPC. Right now, Barber's value is in his blocking and emotion. Cue the clip with Tashard pumping up the huddle...so that's a wash. Choice is our regular 3rd down back so his blocking is definitely good enough to get the job done. So that leaves actual production.

Even healthy, Barber doesn't have Choice's burst, vision or quickness, even moreso now. Major fail IMO on Garrett/Skip Peete's behalf. I guess someone else nailed it in another thread when they said that Choice's touches would be limited when Wade singled him out for having to be involved in the offense.

Again, overall, loved the effort across the board and the win, but this burned me up because it was clear the run game needed a spark and IMO Choice could've provided it, helped TOP, and also slow down the blitz.

Only Dallas fans would have complaints about a win......

 

[JBond]

Do you know what the definition of "insane" is?


You don't think an entire stadium full of fans expressing their displeasure at the unbelievably undisciplined play would send a message?

Geeze, it's not like this is some sort of anomally. It happens each and every week and has cost us games. Who here didn't say "on no, here we go again" when the O-line started in when the game was still very competitive?

What harm could come of it? Sitting in your hands and saying "that's ok. they'll do better next time" has worked so well, right?

Not doing what ever little bit you can to try and send a message makes me question your priorities.

And I am sure 80 thousand fans booing you because you couldn't remember the snap count AGAIN will make an impression.

What could it hurt?

I don't believe I am so important that my booing would make Flozell a better player. I just don't buy it. Coaches should discipline their players. Having fans boo a pretty good team seems like a stupid idea to me. Boo if it makes you happy. Different folks get kicks out of different things. It hasn't made a difference in the past. Why would it in the future?

Consequence for actions produce results. Say benching them for a series for pre snap penalties. I really don't think Flozell or anyone else on the field is going to play better because you booed thier mistake.

Just my take.

 

[Doomsday101]

You're wrong here. The first priority is to stop anyone who can hit the QB. The QB can throw the ball away but you don't risk injury to the QB or a negative play. Many times you can still chuck the rusher and get out. Unless it's a screen play then you must pick up the rusher. Even with a screen you may have to bust the play to pick up the rusher although that shouldn't happen often.



I think Barber was healthy running the ball. I will admit he possibly could still be less than 100% leg wise but I doubt it. If you're arguing he couldn't catch the ball I'd point out that we don't dump off to the RB a lot or run a lot of traditional screens. Now if you're arguing Choice is the better running back period I'll respect your opinion. Right now I'm on the fence.



I don't know they feel Choice is the better back coming out of the backfield. They may be just giving TC some touches there since he is productive doing that. I'm happy with any of the three blocking or being the third down back. But Barber is clearly the better blocker of the three. I think Choice can be adequate in general although he does leave his feet on occasion.

And again you're wrong about a back not having to adjust to someone coming in unabetted to the QB. You're the one not understanding the RBs duties. I will admit a lot of RBs don't make that adjustment or a rush is delayed long enough to make it a moot point.

Sorry not mis-understanding anything here. RB do not always stay in and sometimes they go out even in a single RB formation there job is not always to pick up the pass rusher. Hell a screen invited the pass rusher in, if the back is staying in to block he sure as hell can't be out on the play. When the RB is swing out he is not staying into block you may keep a FB back or bring in an extra TE but no there are many times the back is not being asked to stay in and block.

I like Choice I like seeing him play then again I like all 3 RB's and like seeing them play as well and do no get my panties in a wad when one does not get as many carries as I may like him to have. The bottom line is winning that is exactly what we did and if that offends people I don't care, I'm sick of the whinning from people who are more into fantasy football BS than the game itself.

 

[JBond]

Sorry not mis-understanding anything here. RB do not always stay in and sometimes they go out even in a single RB formation there job is not always to pick up the pass rusher. Hell a screen invited the pass rusher in, if the back is staying in to block he sure as hell can't be out on the play. When the RB is swing out he is not staying into block you may keep a FB back or bring in an extra TE but no there are many times the back is not being asked to stay in and block.

I like Choice I like seeing him play then again I like all 3 RB's and like seeing them play as well and do no get my panties in a wad when one does not get as many carries as I may like him to have. The bottom line is winning that is exactly what we did and if that offends people I don't care, I'm sick of the whinning from people who are more into fantasy football BS than the game itself.

Didn't we win yesterday? You just can't please some folks.

 

[Vtwin]

I don't believe I am so important that my booing would make Flozell a better player. I just don't buy it. Coaches should discipline their players. Having fans boo a pretty good team seems like a stupid idea to me. Boo if it makes you happy. Different folks get kicks out of different things. It hasn't made a difference in the past. Why would it in the future?

Consequence for actions produce results. Say benching them for a series for pre snap penalties. I really don't think Flozell or anyone else on the field is going to play better because you booed thier mistake.

Just my take.

When has it happened in the past? If it wasn't going to happen the last couple games it is never going to happen.

I understand and appreciate your take. IF this was the rare game when the penalties got out of hand I would agree 100%.

Unfortunately though this is a trend that has been going on for years and is seemingly getting worse. Apparently the coaches either can't or won't do anything about it. You are right, a few people booing won't make any difference at all. I don't believe though that if the vast majority of the fans stood up and started letting them have it that it wouldn't get the attention of the players AND the coaches, it might help and it might not.

What could it hurt?

Think about it. An entire stadium on it's feet letting the team know that this is NOT acceptable. You don't think that is going to make any impression at all?

May help. May not. It's sure not going to hurt!

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result though is downright insane.

 

[jobberone]

Sorry not mis-understanding anything here. RB do not always stay in and sometimes they go out even in a single RB formation there job is not always to pick up the pass rusher. Hell a screen invited the pass rusher in, if the back is staying in to block he sure as hell can't be out on the play. When the RB is swing out he is not staying into block you may keep a FB back or bring in an extra TE but no there are many times the back is not being asked to stay in and block.

I like Choice I like seeing him play then again I like all 3 RB's and like seeing them play as well and do no get my panties in a wad when one does not get as many carries as I may like him to have. The bottom line is winning that is exactly what we did and if that offends people I don't care, I'm sick of the whinning from people who are more into fantasy football BS than the game itself.

No one is saying there aren't called plays for the RB to go out wherever the play calls for. We're saying before going out even on a called play the RB has to look for someone busting the play up not to mention busting the QB up. If that blows the play up then so be it. Most called plays even to the RB have other options for the QB anyway. But if he has to throw the ball into the ground at the feet of a RB then that's the QBs best play there.

You're clearly not understanding the role of the RB but that's ok. No need to get defensive about it.

 

[Doomsday101]

No one is saying there aren't called plays for the RB to go out wherever the play calls for. We're saying before going out even on a called play the RB has to look for someone busting the play up not to mention busting the QB up. If that blows the play up then so be it. Most called plays even to the RB have other options for the QB anyway. But if he has to throw the ball into the ground at the feet of a RB then that's the QBs best play there.

You're clearly not understanding the role of the RB but that's ok. No need to get defensive about it.

I understand the role of a RB and the play selection has a lot to do with the responsibility for any position. Hell there are times we have gone no back in the back field when sending the back outside before the snap. Sorry I do understand the job of a RB evidently many here do not understand including yourself.