Penn State gets wins back

[Manwiththeplan]

I wonder, at what point did the outcry for penn state exceed the outcry against penn state?

 

[WV Cowboy]

Penn state getting credit for winning football games is the same as not locking up rapists. Good try.

My point was someone having to pay for the crime.

Someone gets punished, .. but It doesn't change what the victim is going through. Someone still needs to be punished.

Taking away wins was part of the punishment.

But once again Penn State's football program is more important than the young victims.

I raised two boys, .. I have coached hundreds of boys of that age group, .. I have 3 grandsons.

I have been around young boys for the past 37 years of my life. This hits home for me, .. and sickens me.

 

[lothos05]

They didn't? They are one of the parties involved in the settlement agreement. I had to have something to do with it.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/article7023989.html



http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...aa-reaches-proposed-settlement-corman-lawsuit

The lawsuit was brought on by PA Sen Corman and PA Sec McCord against the NCAA for the first payment of the $60 million penalty and to keep those monies inside PA. PSU was subsequently added as a nominal defendant:

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...ccord-ncaa-penn-state-head-for-trial,1462097/

"Penn State, as a nominal defendant, offers little input in the statement. Attorneys for the university provide a brief timeline that summarizes the signing of the consent decree, but make no arguments for or against either side."

Yes, PSU agreed with the settlement agreement; however, they did not initiate the lawsuit against the NCAA.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The lawsuit was brought on by PA Sen Corman and PA Sec McCord against the NCAA for the first payment of the $60 million penalty and to keep those monies inside PA. PSU was subsequently added as a nominal defendant:

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...ccord-ncaa-penn-state-head-for-trial,1462097/

"Penn State, as a nominal defendant, offers little input in the statement. Attorneys for the university provide a brief timeline that summarizes the signing of the consent decree, but make no arguments for or against either side."

Yes, PSU agreed with the settlement agreement; however, they did not initiate the lawsuit against the NCAA.

If we are to be naïve enough to believe that was the only evolvement of Penn State and or Sen Corman and McCord weren't acting on Penn State's behalf to some extent, how did the 112 wins get brought of in a lawsuit focused on where the $60 million should be spent?

 

[EST_1986]

My point was someone having to pay for the crime.

Someone gets punished, .. but It doesn't change what the victim is going through. Someone still needs to be punished.

Taking away wins was part of the punishment.

But once again Penn State's football program is more important than the young victims.

I raised two boys, .. I have coached hundreds of boys of that age group, .. I have 3 grandsons.

I have been around young boys for the past 37 years of my life. This hits home for me, .. and sickens me.

The guy that did the crime was punished.

 

[lothos05]

If we are to be naïve enough to believe that was the only evolvement of Penn State and or Sen Corman and McCord weren't acting on Penn State's behalf to some extent, how did the 112 wins get brought of in a lawsuit focused on where the $60 million should be spent?

Would you believe the NCAA? The NCAA cited the Consent Decree as reason for not complying with the Endowment Act, which brought PSU into the lawsuit as a nominal defendant:

http://www.wearecentralpa.com/story...-ncaa-settlement/32535/PePKuSaaqEu-CeIKm7ay7w

This also allowed the Consent Decree to be challenged legally. Whether or not the NCAA felt the Decree could withstand litigation, the NCAA along with PSU decided to repeal the Decree and enter a new agreement this past Friday. Repealing the decree reinstated the wins and ended all penalties against PSU.

Furthermore, the article that I cited in my previous post - the NCAA stated that PSU never challenged the Consent Decree:

"In response to allegations from Corman and McCord, the NCAA writes in Friday's filing that "since executing the Consent Decree over two years ago, neither Penn State and Penn State have ever challenged its validity."

 

[Manwiththeplan]

regardless it was a settlement.......it was not a side not that the wins were restored, both politicians knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[Rogah]

The guy that did the crime was punished.

The guy who did the abuse was punished.

The men who knew about it and did nothing were not.

 

[WV Cowboy]

The guy who did the abuse was punished.

The men who knew about it and did nothing were not.

The guy that did the crime enjoyed having sex with young boys so we know why he did what he did.
I have no idea how the ones that knew about it and did nothing could do what they did.

I'm done discussing it with people that side with Penn State. They make me sick. I would hope that if it were my school I would still feel about my school like I do about Penn State.

Penn State got their wins back, all is right with the world now. [/sarcasm]

 

[TellerMorrow34]

This is a touchy deal to me because I see some things for both sides here.

I absolutely am with you WV as far as Joe and Sandusky and the like go. They shouldn't get anything given back to them. People can say Joe did all he had to do. Bull spit. The guy did as little as humanly possible so he could say "I did what I was supposed to" to try and ease his mind on the fact that he allowed a Pedo to have continued access to children.

That said I do understand giving the wins back to Penn State because there are hundreds and hundreds of players who had absolutely nothing to do with any wrong doing who got punished, and had their wins and reputations blemished, because of the actions of people above them who was supposed to know better and do more to protect people.

 

[WV Cowboy]

This is a touchy deal to me because I see some things for both sides here.

I absolutely am with you WV as far as Joe and Sandusky and the like go. They shouldn't get anything given back to them. People can say Joe did all he had to do. Bull spit. The guy did as little as humanly possible so he could say "I did what I was supposed to" to try and ease his mind on the fact that he allowed a Pedo to have continued access to children.

That said I do understand giving the wins back to Penn State because there are hundreds and hundreds of players who had absolutely nothing to do with any wrong doing who got punished, and had their wins and reputations blemished, because of the actions of people above them who was supposed to know better and do more to protect people.

Sadly, that is the way it works.

We all feel bad for the players, but when the authority figure in a relationship does wrong, everybody who answers to him is impacted.

If a father commits a crime, .. gets caught and goes to prison, .. it sure as heck affects his wife and all of his children.

Is that fair? .. no.

Paterno should have thought about others when he kept this to himself. But by keeping this to himself it becomes obvious he is not thinking about others, ... especially those boys.

All he was thinking about was the reputation and the future of the mighty Penn State football program.

Listen, .. I couldn't care less if PSU gets their precious wins back or not, I will always have my opinion of what went on up there in Happy Valley.

 

[lothos05]

I just wanted to offer my perspective on this very delicate topic . . .

For me, it has always been about the NCAA lacking jurisdictional claim in a criminal matter. The NCAA is meant to govern over matters that have to do with keeping a level playing field. Since the NCAA overstepped their bounds, I have defended Penn State and will continue to do so. Now, a similar parallel can be drawn in the 2007 VA Tech massacre. A case can be made that VA Tech officials could have done more to prevent the loss of life during the shooting spree, which is evident by the $11 million lawsuit settlement between the state and the victims. Had the NCAA levied sanctions against VA Tech, I would defend that institution as well.

By no means, in showing support of Penn State do I condone what Sandusky did or the actions of Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz in the cover-up. It was the actions of a demented pervert and four self-centered stooges that tarnished the reputation of an entire university. Just to use the example in WV's post, I can be supportive of the wife and children without condoning the crime of the father, correct? However, there remains quite a bit of contempt towards Penn State. This is what I am trying to understand . . . the hate towards Penn State.

I want to ask those who care to read or answer: Is the same contempt there for Hollywood? An industry that openly supports Roman Polanski . . . or even Jack Nicholson? It was his house in which Polanski raped a 13 yr old girl. Is there the same outcry against Disney for having made an Alice in Wonderland movie? A movie for kids written by an author (Lewis Carroll) who took very questionable photographs of an underage girl. Do I need to mention our Dallas Cowboys and Rafael Septien?

Quite simply, the answer is no. So, why then is it there for Penn State?

Full disclosure: I attended Penn State for 3 years but completed my degree at another PA university well before the scandal in 2011. Also, this matter hits close to home . . . I do understand what those kids went through.

 

[joseephuss]

The VaTech shootings and what happened at Penn St is very poor comparison. The rapist was a football coach. Two of the guys involved in not doing enough to end it were the head football coach and the athletic director. It was all centered around the football program. The NCAA definitely had some jurisdiction in the matter. There is nothing similar in the events at Viriginia Tech. The comparison is more a diversion than an attempt of making any type of good thought provoking point.

There is plenty of contempt for Hollywood as it relates to Romn Polanski. There is also contempt for Rafael Septien amongst Cowboy fans.

 

[burmafrd]

Joe basically turned his back and let it continue to happen.

and it was to protect his legacy and the football program. As did the others who did nothing.

So frankly to me the NCAA DOES belong in this; because if you claim that the NCAA is supposed to make sure the playing field is level, then this COVERUP was CLEARLY to benefit the Football Program of Penn State and therefore it is entirely proper that the Football Program pay a price.

 

[lothos05]

Thanks for your responses, joseephus and burmafrd!

Ok, I see the flaw in the VA Tech comparison. I jumped to some conclusions there. I remembered a couple similarities i.e., the shooting being a criminal matter and the university not doing enough to prevent further harm but shouldn't have made that comparison. It wasn't meant to be a diversion nor was it intended to be thought-provoking.

What I did intend to be thought-provoking was the questions I asked. I do not see the same contempt for Hollywood. Not when Polanski can win an Academy Award or a Lifetime Achievement Award or gross $100 mill in movies since the rape conviction. Also, there are many reasons to hate the Dallas Cowboys but down on that list for non-fans would be Septien--if they even know about it! But to rephrase, do we, as Cowboys fans, hold them in contempt (the team) because of that conviction?

As far as jurisdiction, I respect your position but I still see this as a criminal matter only and want the courts to mete out punishment. Yes, the NCAA is supposed to ensure a level playing field but I don't see how Penn State gained a competitive advantage i.e., paying athletes, cheating on tests, etc. Needless to say, this is hardly a cut and dry matter here. At the very least, both sides have valid points and can claim "a win" in the debate or else the NCAA wouldn't have repealed the Consent Decree nor would have Penn State agreed to the sanctions in the first place.

Regardless of which side of the argument we fall on, there remains a huge hole from Friday's settlement. The settlement leaves Paterno having escaped punishment twice now. At least by seeing the proceedings through to the end, there was a chance that Paterno could still be punished by taking away those 111 wins.

 

[Bill Wooten]

Thanks for your responses, joseephus and burmafrd!

Ok, I see the flaw in the VA Tech comparison. I jumped to some conclusions there. I remembered a couple similarities i.e., the shooting being a criminal matter and the university not doing enough to prevent further harm but shouldn't have made that comparison. It wasn't meant to be a diversion nor was it intended to be thought-provoking.

What I did intend to be thought-provoking was the questions I asked. I do not see the same contempt for Hollywood. Not when Polanski can win an Academy Award or a Lifetime Achievement Award or gross $100 mill in movies since the rape conviction. Also, there are many reasons to hate the Dallas Cowboys but down on that list for non-fans would be Septien--if they even know about it! But to rephrase, do we, as Cowboys fans, hold them in contempt (the team) because of that conviction?

As far as jurisdiction, I respect your position but I still see this as a criminal matter only and want the courts to mete out punishment. Yes, the NCAA is supposed to ensure a level playing field but I don't see how Penn State gained a competitive advantage i.e., paying athletes, cheating on tests, etc. Needless to say, this is hardly a cut and dry matter here. At the very least, both sides have valid points and can claim "a win" in the debate or else the NCAA wouldn't have repealed the Consent Decree nor would have Penn State agreed to the sanctions in the first place.

Regardless of which side of the argument we fall on, there remains a huge hole from Friday's settlement. The settlement leaves Paterno having escaped punishment twice now. At least by seeing the proceedings through to the end, there was a chance that Paterno could still be punished by taking away those 111 wins.

The NCAA sanctions were all just posturing to control public sentiment regarding PSU. The Public needed someone to pay and there was WAY too much smoke coming out of Happy Valley. They were able to impose this "punishment" and people stopped digging into what else may have been going on there. Once things blew over, they reversed punishment and everything is back to normal.

If the NCAA was really interested in ensuring a level playing field based on the competitive advantages you mentioned (paying athletes, cheating on tests), then UNC would have no athletic program right now. They are only interested in keeping the cash flow going.

 

[burmafrd]

Thanks for your responses, joseephus and burmafrd!

Ok, I see the flaw in the VA Tech comparison. I jumped to some conclusions there. I remembered a couple similarities i.e., the shooting being a criminal matter and the university not doing enough to prevent further harm but shouldn't have made that comparison. It wasn't meant to be a diversion nor was it intended to be thought-provoking.

What I did intend to be thought-provoking was the questions I asked. I do not see the same contempt for Hollywood. Not when Polanski can win an Academy Award or a Lifetime Achievement Award or gross $100 mill in movies since the rape conviction. Also, there are many reasons to hate the Dallas Cowboys but down on that list for non-fans would be Septien--if they even know about it! But to rephrase, do we, as Cowboys fans, hold them in contempt (the team) because of that conviction?

As far as jurisdiction, I respect your position but I still see this as a criminal matter only and want the courts to mete out punishment. Yes, the NCAA is supposed to ensure a level playing field but I don't see how Penn State gained a competitive advantage i.e., paying athletes, cheating on tests, etc. Needless to say, this is hardly a cut and dry matter here. At the very least, both sides have valid points and can claim "a win" in the debate or else the NCAA wouldn't have repealed the Consent Decree nor would have Penn State agreed to the sanctions in the first place.

Regardless of which side of the argument we fall on, there remains a huge hole from Friday's settlement. The settlement leaves Paterno having escaped punishment twice now. At least by seeing the proceedings through to the end, there was a chance that Paterno could still be punished by taking away those 111 wins.

huge hole in your argument is this: once found out recruiting took a big hit. Right? So how was it NOT to PSU's advantage to cover it up? Therefore it WAS a competitive advantage and the NCAA was correct in slapping them down.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That said I do understand giving the wins back to Penn State because there are hundreds and hundreds of players who had absolutely nothing to do with any wrong doing who got punished, and had their wins and reputations blemished, because of the actions of people above them who was supposed to know better and do more to protect people.

My problem with this argument is first, how is any former student athlete effected by this? Most are in their 30s and 40s, and have moved on from their athletic lives. They know they won on the field, so is this considered a punishment for them? Second, how is this any different from when the NCAA takes away wins from any other team? Reggie Bush takes money, the entire team gets their wins taken away, not just Bush.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I just wanted to offer my perspective on this very delicate topic . . .

For me, it has always been about the NCAA lacking jurisdictional claim in a criminal matter. The NCAA is meant to govern over matters that have to do with keeping a level playing field. Since the NCAA overstepped their bounds, I have defended Penn State and will continue to do so. Now, a similar parallel can be drawn in the 2007 VA Tech massacre. A case can be made that VA Tech officials could have done more to prevent the loss of life during the shooting spree, which is evident by the $11 million lawsuit settlement between the state and the victims. Had the NCAA levied sanctions against VA Tech, I would defend that institution as well.

Unless VaTech gave him the guns or locked students in a room with him, this was about as bad a comparison as you could've done.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...and-insensitive/ar-AA8lBiT?ocid=ansSBNation11

In celebration of Joe Pa getting his wins back, which we can all agree was the most important thing, the Penn State Hockey team wore "409" stickers on their helmet. Way to go Penn State, keep it classy!