People need to stop wishing our talent away

[kskboys]

Tough yards are so hard to quantify and are typically used since they aren't easily disproven.

For example you claimed Zeke is the best at getting the dirty yards. In 2018 he was the 18th best at getting the dirty yards.

Where did rice fall in that category in their SB year? Hard to know. That's why it's being used here since there's no way to prove or disprove it.
Since he only had 9 rushing TDs odds are he wasn't one of the highest.

And not everything is quantifiable. You're straining mightily for black and white answers when there are none.
Don't remember saying Zeke was the best. I generally don't make such statements, as there's no way to accurately judge this facet.

 

[CouchCoach]

It is not "wishing our talent away". It is hoping they do not may too much to too few and are able to contend.

 

[kskboys]

This is such a weird comment and clearly an attempt to try to justify the fact Rice was just good in 2012. Alfred Morris is an inside runner and averaged 4.8. Lynch was a power back and he averaged 5.0 ypc that year.

And I think you guys underrating Rice is very strange!!!!!!!

Using just one season can be an outlier, which I know you already know. Emmit average 4.1 for his career, but had one year at 5.

Morris's career average is 4.3 Lynch's career average is 4.3.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

And not everything is quantifiable. You're straining mightily for black and white answers when there are none.
Don't remember saying Zeke was the best. I generally don't make such statements, as there's no way to accurately judge this facet.

Gotcha. Okay since we can't determine how many dirty yards he got or didnt get, we'll leave it out then.

We'll rely on the rushing stats that are readily available, and in conclusion Rice was a part of their winning formula but their rushing game seemed to very a very small part of it as it wasn't even league average.

So in conclusion, we'll assume that yet again the RB wasn't the reasoning behind the SB victory.

It's getting harder and harder to find that example of a high paid "elite" RB being the difference between going the distance and not.

 

[atlantacowboy]

We haven’t had a back like Zeke since Emmitt. People keep acting like we can win with any back. I guess you can survive with a mediocre back, but I’ll take the stud player any day. Obviously we have a cap, but the line is set for years so they should try their best to keep these triplets together for at least 5 years.

Dak has had a tremendous start to his career and will keep getting better. People that act like he’s a bum are nuts.

Lets win a superbowl before we start talking about breaking up the team.

Demarco Murray was the first NFL offensive MVP in league history to change teams the next year. Zeke still hasn't topped Murrays 2014 year, and we let him walk. The argument that you need an elite rb to win a super bowl was debunked by Philly recently , and NE does it every other year. RB is a luxury position and not where you spend your cap dollars.

 

[kskboys]

No, not flashy. Smith was elite. Rice was not.

But again, even if you stipulate Rice was an elite back, again, that doesn't disprove the reality that over the last decade or so, most SB participating teams weren't paying big bucks to elite TBs.

I don't think a team should pay big bucks to a RB. I'm in the camp of offering Zeke an extension now, maybe 5 years 50 mil. If he doesn't want to come to the table or wants 20 mil, let him play out his rook contract and then franchise him for a year, possibly two if contention has been achieved.

Smith was elite in the same way Rice was elite. He took the ball and got positive yards. Rice's career, however, was very short, so longevity is def in Smith's favor.

 

[ondaedg]

There are teams who send their stars away to make sure they can keep all of their holes plugged. And there is benefit to getting rid of the black clouds that hang over this team every single season. Just offering an opposing viewpoint.

 

[Sydla]

And I think you guys underrating Rice is very strange!!!!!!!

Using just one season can be an outlier, which I know you already know. Emmit average 4.1 for his career, but had one year at 5.

Morris's career average is 4.3 Lynch's career average is 4.3.

He was a good TB. He was never an elite TB. He was never one of the 2-3 best TBs in football in any given year.

And as it pertains to this overall discussion, he was never being paid like an elite TB either. In 2012 his AAV was 11th amongst TBs.

 

[kskboys]

Gotcha. Okay since we can't determine how many dirty yards he got or didnt get, we'll leave it out then.

We'll rely on the rushing stats that are readily available, and in conclusion Rice was a part of their winning formula but their rushing game seemed to very a very small part of it as it wasn't even league average.

So in conclusion, we'll assume that yet again the RB wasn't the reasoning behind the SB victory.

It's getting harder and harder to find that example of a high paid "elite" RB being the difference between going the distance and not.

Or, we could watch the games and see the Rice was a huge part of them winning the super bowl.

I'm against paying RB's huge money. That's not my argument at all.

RB's have been huge in super bowl runs almost every year. Blount, CJAnderson, James Starks, Ray Rice, Jacobs, Sony Michell, all those guys were a huge part of their team's superbowl run.

It's not an elite RB, it's the tough yarders. Blount, CJ, Rice, Jacobs, Anderson, those type guys.

 

[kskboys]

He was a good TB. He was never an elite TB. He was never one of the 2-3 best TBs in football in any given year.

And as it pertains to this overall discussion, he was never being paid like an elite TB either. In 2012 his AAV was 11th amongst TBs.

He was still on his rookie contract.

There is no number to define elite. He was ranked 3rd one year, so it appears you're not correct.

Ray Rice was very good. I'm thinking the argument as to whether we can moniker him "elite" is very silly. It generally takes a good RB to go on a super bowl run and win it all. I am not for overpaying Zeke.

 

[IndianaCowboys1994]

In that scenario I’d have no qualms losing Byron. Gotta keep those two though.

He might be the odd man out. Especially if Jackson and the Olumba kid are decent.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

2018 RB efficiency:

Alex Collins 4.91
Carlos Hyde 4.79
Ito Smith 4.69
Alfred Blue 4.39
Kamara 3.96
Hunt 3.89
Doug Martin 3.78
Sony Michel 3.71
Zeke 3.67
Gurley 3.65
Barkley 3.63
Gordon 3.62
Nick Chubb 3.48
McCaffrey 3.44
Phillip Lindsay 3.39
Frank Gore 3.13

Those look like pretty good backs with "middling" efficiency.

Rushing efficiency is calculated by taking the total distance a player traveled on rushing plays as a ball carrier according to Next Gen Stats (measured in yards) per rushing yards gained. The lower the number, the more of a North/South runner.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#efficiency

This is a terrible statistic. LOL

 

[Sydla]

He was still on his rookie contract.

There is no number to define elite. He was ranked 3rd one year, so it appears you're not correct.

Ray Rice was very good. I'm thinking the argument as to whether we can moniker him "elite" is very silly. It generally takes a good RB to go on a super bowl run and win it all. I am not for overpaying Zeke.

Not in 2012 he wasn't on his rookie deal. He signed a new contract in the 2012 off season.

 

[817Gill]

I just don't get why Dallas can't have Dak AND Zeke? I think they go together pretty well. Dallas has their line locked up for a while as well as defensive talent. Sign one of Amari/Jaylon/Byron, keep drafting well (our track record since 2010 is pretty good), and they SHOULD win at least one Super Bowl, assuming Garrett is gone. I say from 2019-2024 is a legit Super Bowl window.

Crazy thing is the team has allocated enough space for Amari/Jaylon/AND Byron. For some reason nobody wants to just look up the salary cap and do the simple math to see the space is there, idk we wanna believe yellow journalism on the topic.


The guys we lose will be the Anthony Brown/Maliek Collins/La’el Collins. This team doesn’t have 13 stars, it has enough money to sign the pillars. You just can’t resign solid starters and depth but that’s what Will McClay is for

 

[Sydla]

Crazy thing is the team has allocated enough space for Amari/Jaylon/AND Byron. For some reason nobody wants to just look up the salary cap and do the simple math to see the space is there, idk we wanna believe yellow journalism on the topic.


The guys we lose will be the Anthony Brown/Maliek Collins/La’el Collins. This team doesn’t have 13 stars, it has enough money to sign the pillars. You just can’t resign solid starters and depth but that’s what Will McClay is for

On top of paying Dak over $30MM AAV and Elliott close to $20MM AAV? And then also throw in guys like Woods, Quinn, etc. who will also need new deals unless you are just letting them walk.

You seem to suggest it's simple math, so let's see the simple math. Because I think it would be extremely tight to get all those guys under contract AND then still fill out the roster with some quality players and depth.

 

[IndianaCowboys1994]

Crazy thing is the team has allocated enough space for Amari/Jaylon/AND Byron. For some reason nobody wants to just look up the salary cap and do the simple math to see the space is there, idk we wanna believe yellow journalism on the topic.


The guys we lose will be the Anthony Brown/Maliek Collins/La’el Collins. This team doesn’t have 13 stars, it has enough money to sign the pillars. You just can’t resign solid starters and depth but that’s what Will McClay is for

Good deal. Yeah I'm not a cap expert. I'm okay with losing those three guys you mentioned, they have depth at those positions. Honestly if Byron wants too much I let him walk. For sure Dak, Zeke, Amari, and Jaylon!

 

[cowboyblue22]

jerry will keep the players that are going to make him the most money draw the most fans and guys they will spend their money on

 

[IndianaCowboys1994]

On top of paying Dak over $30MM AAV and Elliott close to $20MM AAV? And then also throw in guys like Woods, Quinn, etc. who will also need new deals unless you are just letting them walk.

You seem to suggest it's simple math, so let's see the simple math. Because I think it would be extremely tight to get all those guys under contract AND then still fill out the roster with some quality players and depth.

You might be able to keep a guy like that. I throw Cobb in there too. It just depends on the player. They have to keep drafting well. Can't stress that enough. That's why it's important for Armstrong, Jackson, or Taco to come on strong this year. If one of them is capable of starting then I'm okay with letting Quinn go. They also need to quit giving crappy contracts out like Crawford's and Hurns..

Also, check out spotrac.com. That is a good site for all things salary cap. It's how I get my numbers.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Crazy thing is the team has allocated enough space for Amari/Jaylon/AND Byron. For some reason nobody wants to just look up the salary cap and do the simple math to see the space is there, idk we wanna believe yellow journalism on the topic.


The guys we lose will be the Anthony Brown/Maliek Collins/La’el Collins. This team doesn’t have 13 stars, it has enough money to sign the pillars. You just can’t resign solid starters and depth but that’s what Will McClay is for

What's interesting, we've seen at least a few times ( from posters who appear to have a good handle on cap money ) where there's more than enough cap space/money to pay at least 5-6 core players market value and still have plenty left. I'm starting to think it's personal with a number of posters/fans. For whatever reason, they have problems seeing the kids make the kind of money out there. Archive back and you'll find a few who have made a case we should let DLaw, Dak and now Zeke all walk rather than giving them market value second contracts. Pretty sure Coop is next.........lol

 

[Sydla]

What's interesting, we've seen at least a few times ( from posters who appear to have a good handle on cap money ) where there's more than enough cap space/money to
pay at least 5-6 core players market value and still have plenty left. I'm starting to think it's personal with a number of posters/fans. For whatever reason, they have problems seeing the kids make the kind of money out there. Archive back and you'll find a few who have made a case we should let DLaw, Dak and now Zeke all walk rather than giving them market value second contracts. Pretty sure Coop is next.........lol

To suggest that people concerned with the cap implications of trying to sign all these guys to huge contracts is largely born out of jealousy is borderline silliness.

The reality is Dallas can’t pay all these guys. They just can’t. So decisions will have to be made. Shoot even homer outlets like Blogging the Boys have floated articles stating a guy like Jones might have to be a casualty if they pay Dak and Elliott and Cooper massive deals.

People who operate under the assumption that we can pay Dak, Elliott, Cooper, Jones, Smith all elite level contracts are probably going to be disappointed at some level. Either all those guys sign and then we have an unbalanced roster with no real depth or they have to make a tough call on a guy above.

There’s also the other discussion that revolves around the notion that’s Elliott has to get paid because he’s the most important player on offense, then why are you paying Dak like he’s the most important player on offense?