Pff 3 round mock (NFC East)

Seeing all these mocks with the Cowboys taking Tremble really excites me. He's definitely one of my pet cats. He can do so many things. Great H-back type of player.
 
I really like Surtain, McNeil, and Tremble. All three of those guys are on my personal “I want for Dallas” list. McNeil and Surtain would, frankly, make the whole draft for me. Those two guys would go a long way towards getting the defense caught up with the offense.

Turner, I’m kind of wish-washy on. I just have a hard time getting very excited about him, although for all I know the team could love the guy.

I’d take it though because I love the other 3 guys so much.
 
They didn't list the whole draft but if Levi was there at 44 I would take him instead. Otherwise the other players would be good. The Kentucky LB Jamin Davis is graded a lot higher than Turner though.
 
morasp said:
They didn't list the whole draft but if Levi was there at 44 I would take him instead.
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McNeil complements Gallimore rush. But if you think Woods is your starter then go Levi, but in that scenario you may as well go with Barmore.
 
CowboyoWales said:
McNeil complements Gallimore rush. But if you think Woods is your starter then go Levi, but in that scenario you may as well go with Barmore.
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I'd start either Gallimore/Hill whichever they like better and Levi. I don't think Quinn runs a 3T 1T defense. I could be all wet but that's what I've read. He plays a one gap system with an extra defender in the box. I think that's why the Cowboys showed so much interest in Milton Williams' pro day. If they take a nose early obviously I'm wrong but in that case I think Shelvin would be a better option than McNeill.
 
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morasp said:
I'd start either Gallimore/Hill whichever they like better and Levi. I don't think Quinn runs a 3T 1T defense. I could be all wet but that's what I've read. He plays a one gap system with an extra defender in the box. I think that's why the Cowboys showed so much interest in Milton Williams' pro day. If they take a nose early obviously I'm wrong but in that case I think Shelvin would be a better option than McNeill.
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SB Nation "So while Quinn is a return to a more straightforward 4-3, it’s a far cry from the undersized gap-shooters that Rod Marinelli ran not too long ago."

Wouldn't want to start Gallimore/Hill and Levi in early downs, that's repeating our problem of giving away long yardage on 1st/2nd down. Prefer the combination of a run stuffer who's able to push the pocket and enable the 3-tech to pressure. Both Levi and Gallimore are susceptible to larger blockers and as such both would be working as individuals.....I prefer the team approach to pressurizing and run blocking.
 
CowboyoWales said:
SB Nation "So while Quinn is a return to a more straightforward 4-3, it’s a far cry from the undersized gap-shooters that Rod Marinelli ran not too long ago."

Wouldn't want to start Gallimore/Hill and Levi in early downs, that's repeating our problem of giving away long yardage on 1st/2nd down. Prefer the combination of a run stuffer who's able to push the pocket and enable the 3-tech to pressure. Both Levi and Gallimore are susceptible to larger blockers and as such both would be working as individuals.....I prefer the team approach to pressurizing and run blocking.
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I enjoy all of the pre-draft discussions that go on including this one. Every player has a gap. Theoretically they don't take on a double team and if they do someone should have a free run to the ball. If you find something that mentions a two gap nose tackle with Quinn's scheme then you may have something. Otherwise I'm not convinced and we'll see what they do on draft day. I would also be extremely hesitant to use that high of a pick on a two down player with a backup grade. There are too many players at that spot with a starter grade that would fill a need for us. To me he's just a guy that had one sack and 4.5 tackles for loss that you could easily get in the third round or even day three.
 
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I’ll take this draft but I would take Davis over Turner.
 
morasp said:
I enjoy all of the pre-draft discussions that go on including this one. Every player has a gap.
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In a classic "1 gap" 4-3 defense, all the 4 down linemen have 1 gap and the MLB has two. 6 gaps total. Two A gaps, Two B gaps, Two C gaps.

D-
 
AsthmaField said:
I really like Surtain, McNeil, and Tremble. All three of those guys are on my personal “I want for Dallas” list. McNeil and Surtain would, frankly, make the whole draft for me. Those two guys would go a long way towards getting the defense caught up with the offense.

Turner, I’m kind of wish-washy on. I just have a hard time getting very excited about him, although for all I know the team could love the guy.

I’d take it though because I love the other 3 guys so much.
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Alim McNeill has been a "pet cat" ever since John Owning spoke of him on Youtube. But is he a second round pick?

D-
 
dwmyers said:
Alim McNeill has been a "pet cat" ever since John Owning spoke of him on Youtube. But is he a second round pick?

D-
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Dalvin Tomlinson was a 2nd rounder. Now if you hold it against him that he didnt play at Alabama, sure.......but Dallas fans were willing to give big money to a non pass rushing dt so why not draft mcneil round 2? I believe hes more athletic than Tomlinson
 
dwmyers said:
In a classic "1 gap" 4-3 defense, all the 4 down linemen have 1 gap and the MLB has two. 6 gaps total. Two A gaps, Two B gaps, Two C gaps.

D-
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The way it was drawn up in this article the MLB had one gap on run plays. strengths and weaknesses of DC dan quinn's base defense
 
dwmyers said:
Alim McNeill has been a "pet cat" ever since John Owning spoke of him on Youtube. But is he a second round pick?

D-
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He might have to be if teams like him as much as we do. Obviously, I’d much rather have him in the 3rd... but we have no idea how NFL teams are valuing him.
 
morasp said:
The way it was drawn up in this article the MLB had one gap on run plays. strengths and weaknesses of DC dan quinn's base defense
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That's fine. By classic I am referring to Tom Landry's 4-3 inside and outside. These use the MLB to cover two gaps, the two B gaps on the 4-3 inside and the two A gaps on the 4-3 outside.

This is all documented, btw, by Vince Lombardi, in the book "Vince Lombardi on Football". He took Tom's defenses with him to Green Bay.

But to summarize, one gap defenses may have a 2 gap defender, just not on the line.

By the time you get to the Miami 4-3 they have this concept of defenses that are not "gap sound". In essence some of the gaps are not assigned and the offside linebackers are supposed to
clean up. Most of the articles describing these ideas tend to be over my head.
 
ok with me, but yeah if Davis is there I'm taking him over Turner
 
dwmyers said:
That's fine. By classic I am referring to Tom Landry's 4-3 inside and outside. These use the MLB to cover two gaps, the two B gaps on the 4-3 inside and the two A gaps on the 4-3 outside.

This is all documented, btw, by Vince Lombardi, in the book "Vince Lombardi on Football". He took Tom's defenses with him to Green Bay.

But to summarize, one gap defenses may have a 2 gap defender, just not on the line.

By the time you get to the Miami 4-3 they have this concept of defenses that are not "gap sound". In essence some of the gaps are not assigned and the offside linebackers are supposed to
clean up. Most of the articles describing these ideas tend to be over my head.
Click to expand...
How did the DTs play the gap? Were they penetrating or just reacting to the play?
 
morasp said:
How did the DTs play the gap? Were they penetrating or just reacting to the play?
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Let's get you some diagrams..

img_4726.jpg


That's the 4-3 inside.

img_4727.jpg


This is the 4-3 outside. Note that the DTs in both are flexed. This is not the same as the 4-3 Flex, which comes along in the 1960s.

4-3 inside and outside are keying defenses. They don't rush without regard to their keys.

You can gauge the impact of the defense by looking at a book written by Bobby Layne, "Always on Sunday", who does compare the 4 and 5 man pass rush.
Landry like long lean defensive linemen and he had them get their hands up. In the 5-2 Eagle, most of the rush came from the ends.

You could get away with shorter QBs before the 4-3. After, height become a factor.

And AFAICT, the rush and stop thing that Pete Carroll does came from the 3-4 defenses of Chuck Studley, a DC with the 49ers in the 1980s.

The one element of Tom's defenses is that he insisted on maintaining gap integrity, as his was a gap control defense.
That side of what he did is well covered in Pete Golembock's book on the boys.

D-
 
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