PFF Grades & Rankings After Week 5

[buybuydandavis]

WR: Amari- 79.6 (14th)
MG- 65.7 (71st)
Ceedee- 73.0 (35th)
N Brown- 69.7 not enough snaps to rank
C Wilson- 81.9 not enough snaps to rank

Gallup is our lowest scored WR. Significantly lower than Cooper. CD already surpasses him by a chunk in his first came as a rookie.

People significantly overestimate Gallup. It's a mistake to project him as replacing Cooper.

Nice to see Wilson so high. I doubt he can maintain that, but he should be more than acceptable as the #3 in 2022. Great to be so stocked at WR for *years* to come.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Center: Looney- 64.0 (24th)
Biadasz- 51.7 (30th)

Guard: Martin- 86.9 (4th)
Williams- 64.5 (30th)
Mcgovern- 60.0 1 snap basically neutral not a good or bad play

Tackle: Tyron Smith- 67.8 (40th)
Steele- 54.4 (67th)
B. Knight- 60.4 (58th)

Williams moving up to average is a big deal. He was looking like a weak link early on. Must be playing better than average now. Arrow is up. Would be nice to get it higher, and be set with quality at both G spots for the next couple of years.

Maybe Looney comes back when healthy. He was playing well. Better than I expected. Biadasz should improve, and needs to to keep Looney off the field.

Steele must have had a pretty decent game to have his season score jump to 54.4. Maybe he'll be ok. Then again, it was the Giants. Hope he holds up against the Commanders.

Total score if we get a solid backup quality OT out of an UDFA rookie.

Speaking of which, it's what we've gotten out of Knight. Should be great depth next year on the oline.

Along with WR, won't need to spend a pick for *years* unless Tyron finally really breaks down.

 

[buybuydandavis]

That's the thing. People say PFF sucks..fair enough but what's better? This is probably the best you can get as far as grading talent. Its never going to be a flawless system.

Like every measure or metric, PFF isn't perfect. But the general trend is pretty good.

They could probably improve if they adjusted their scoring relative to the competition. What man/team were you playing against on that play?

 

[xwalker]

Grades and rankings are updated after week 5. These are total grades and rankings for the year.

QB: Dak Prescott- 85.2 Grade (7th) Passing grade 80.4 (7th)
Andy Dalton- 73.1 not enough snaps for ranking

RB: Zeke- 68.7 Grade (23rd)
T. Pollard- 66.6 not enough snaps to rank

WR: Amari- 79.6 (14th)
MG- 65.7 (71st)
Ceedee- 73.0 (35th)
N Brown- 69.7 not enough snaps to rank
C Wilson- 81.9 not enough snaps to rank

TE: Schultz- 66.3 (28th)
B. Bell- 72.8 (12th)
S. Mckeon- 50.8 not enough snaps to rank

Center: Looney- 64.0 (24th)
Biadasz- 51.7 (30th)

Guard: Martin- 86.9 (4th)
Williams- 64.5 (30th)
Mcgovern- 60.0 1 snap basically neutral not a good or bad play

Tackle: Tyron Smith- 67.8 (40th)
Steele- 54.4 (67th)
B. Knight- 60.4 (58th)

DT: A. Woods- 54.3 (84th)
Hill- 33.6 (117th worst graded DT in the entire league)
Ty Craw- 54.0 (85th)
D. Poe- 53.2 (87th)
Gallimore- 37.6 not enough snaps to rank, but really bad

DE: A. Smith- 74.3 (16th)
DLaw- 83.7 (4th)
Griffen- 50.1 (102nd)
Armstrong- 53.8 (84th)
B. Anae- 85.2 not enough snaps to rank

LB: Joe Thomas- 51.2 (43rd)
Vander Glass- 47.0 not enough snaps to rank
Jaylon- 57.5 (29th)
Bernard- 67.6 not enough snaps to rank
Gifford- 60.8 not enough snaps to rank

CB: Chido- 66.9 (29th)
Worley- 56.9 (71st)
T. Diggs- 43.0 (105th)
AB- 56.7 (72nd)
J Lew- 47.1 (92nd)
Goodwin- 82.5 relax he only had 1 snap

Safety: X Woods- 69.2 (20th)
D. Thompson- 32.8 (83rd) Ranked worst safety in the NFL
Brandon Carr- 54.4 not enough snaps to rank
D. Wilson- 42.5 (79th)
S. Parker- 51.7 not enough snaps to rank

Side Notes:
D Law and Aldon had huge weeks but bullied bad tackles.
DT's are so bad.
Jaylon had a good week.
Corners suck
Xavier Woods came back down to earth

PFF grades are meaningless.

For example, there no possibility that Poe has been better than Hill for anyone that reviews game footage.

Worley is not remotely close to being as good of a player as Diggs. A majority of big plays allowed by Diggs were fails by the Safeties. If a CB plays outside leverage then a Safety has to provide deep inside help. Multiple times Diggs has played outside leverage and there was no deep inside help. Leverage is part of the play call.

DLaw has not been better for the season than Aldon Smith and they don't really the same position within the scheme.

Bell has not been better than Schultz.

An NBA player that never comes off the bench is a 100% free throw shooter.

Ben Dinucci has a 100% completion rate.

 

[buybuydandavis]

TE: Schultz- 66.3 (28th)
B. Bell- 72.8 (12th)

Look at the Belldozer go! Must be winning a lot of blocks.

Lots of justifiable complaints about our free agent pickups, but we've hit on a few too.

Dalton, ASmith, Bell.

Besides ASmith, which was a shot in the dark, defensive evals are pretty bad, while offensive good.

Dalton, Bell, Steele. That's some great value.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Again, impossible.

Cowboy coaches have been raving that he's most improved player on defense and the Fan Boys are in a frenzy.


Technically, I guess 0 to 33.6 is improvement.

They massively dropped Hill's score last week from the 50s to the 30s. Seemed a bit off. PFF has its limitations. And to be fair, so does Hill in run defense, which he had to do a lot of against the Browns.

 

[AbeBeta]

Grades and rankings are updated after week 5. These are total grades and rankings for the year.

QB: Dak Prescott- 85.2 Grade (7th) Passing grade 80.4 (7th)
Andy Dalton- 73.1 not enough snaps for ranking

RB: Zeke- 68.7 Grade (23rd)
T. Pollard- 66.6 not enough snaps to rank

WR: Amari- 79.6 (14th)
MG- 65.7 (71st)
Ceedee- 73.0 (35th)
N Brown- 69.7 not enough snaps to rank
C Wilson- 81.9 not enough snaps to rank

TE: Schultz- 66.3 (28th)
B. Bell- 72.8 (12th)
S. Mckeon- 50.8 not enough snaps to rank

Center: Looney- 64.0 (24th)
Biadasz- 51.7 (30th)

Guard: Martin- 86.9 (4th)
Williams- 64.5 (30th)
Mcgovern- 60.0 1 snap basically neutral not a good or bad play

Tackle: Tyron Smith- 67.8 (40th)
Steele- 54.4 (67th)
B. Knight- 60.4 (58th)

DT: A. Woods- 54.3 (84th)
Hill- 33.6 (117th worst graded DT in the entire league)
Ty Craw- 54.0 (85th)
D. Poe- 53.2 (87th)
Gallimore- 37.6 not enough snaps to rank, but really bad

DE: A. Smith- 74.3 (16th)
DLaw- 83.7 (4th)
Griffen- 50.1 (102nd)
Armstrong- 53.8 (84th)
B. Anae- 85.2 not enough snaps to rank

LB: Joe Thomas- 51.2 (43rd)
Vander Glass- 47.0 not enough snaps to rank
Jaylon- 57.5 (29th)
Bernard- 67.6 not enough snaps to rank
Gifford- 60.8 not enough snaps to rank

CB: Chido- 66.9 (29th)
Worley- 56.9 (71st)
T. Diggs- 43.0 (105th)
AB- 56.7 (72nd)
J Lew- 47.1 (92nd)
Goodwin- 82.5 relax he only had 1 snap

Safety: X Woods- 69.2 (20th)
D. Thompson- 32.8 (83rd) Ranked worst safety in the NFL
Brandon Carr- 54.4 not enough snaps to rank
D. Wilson- 42.5 (79th)
S. Parker- 51.7 not enough snaps to rank

Side Notes:
D Law and Aldon had huge weeks but bullied bad tackles.
DT's are so bad.
Jaylon had a good week.
Corners suck
Xavier Woods came back down to earth

This is what is problematic about PFF. Hill is graded poorly because he had a ton of almost tackles. Plays where he missed and got counted as a missed tackle. He didn't make the tackle but he screwed the play up so that a LB or DE could come in and finish. That's really his job in this scheme. Screw up the play so the LB can flow to the tackle.

 

[buybuydandavis]

PFF grades are meaningless.

They have their limitations like any other stat.

Calling a stat meaningless because it isn't perfect is to not understand how metrics work.

 

[xwalker]

They have their limitations like any other stat.

Calling a stat meaningless because it isn't perfect is to not understand how metrics work.

PFF player grades are not stats.

PFF does have some good stats. For example QBs passes defined as right, left, center and less than or more than a specific distance.

People have to watch the game footage to get those stats but a trained monkey can do that. It does not need to be perfect because if the pass is borderline right vs center then it does not matter which category it ends up in.

To accurately grade players, it requires knowledge of football. Even when plays are reviewed by experts on TV, they don't always agree. That means even experts like ex NFL coaches would not be 100% accurate when assigning blame for plays which is how PFF "grades" players.

FYI, I have degrees Mathematics and Engineering. I have worked with applied statistics on a daily basis for 30 years. I understand how stats work better almost all NFL fans...

 

[buybuydandavis]

FYI, I have degrees Mathematics and Engineering. I have worked with applied statistics on a daily basis for 30 years. I understand how stats work better almost all NFL fans...

They accumulate grades per play. Stats.

You say they're meaningless. You don't understand them well enough, particularly for a guy who has been working with applied stats.

Estimates aren't "meaningless" because they have higher variance from the truth than you'd like.

What's the correlation with your scores? Zero? No? Not meaningless.

 

[RS12]

Future HOFer Zack Martin proving the cream rises to the top after a slow start.

 

[AsthmaField]

Gallup is our lowest scored WR. Significantly lower than Cooper. CD already surpasses him by a chunk in his first came as a rookie.

People significantly overestimate Gallup. It's a mistake to project him as replacing Cooper.

Nice to see Wilson so high. I doubt he can maintain that, but he should be more than acceptable as the #3 in 2022. Great to be so stocked at WR for *years* to come.

Man, you’re a good poster (this site could use more like you), but I don’t know why you don’t like Gallup very much as a player. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about Cooper being better because Cooper is really good but I remember you talking during last season (or offseason) about how over rated Gallup is and how you’d try to trade him.

That certainly is a minority opinion because most fans and football guys on TV think Gallup is a very good player as well as a very good locker room guy. I was watching the NFL Network today and the guys in there were talking about Gallup and just couldn’t say enough good things about him, basically putting him in the same category as Lamb and Cooper.

As for these grades, I’m not sure exactly how they grade WR’s but watching Gallup this year it is pretty easy to see that he is damn good player. I’m not sure what they do to grade Cooper that much higher than Gallup but I certainly haven’t seen that large of a gap between the two. I’m not one to get in debates about PFF’s validity (or lack of it) and I love football so much that I read it all no matter what... but just looking at that large of a gap between Cooper and Gallup in their grading, I question their methods and how they could arrive to that large of a difference. I know their intent is good but something is off when they have Gallup that far below Cooper.

And that is without even getting in to the team asking Cooper and Gallup to do different things, the fact that defenses have been playing them different, as well as other variables like how great of a team mate and locker room guy a player is.

Anyway, like I said, I think you’re a good poster on here, and I’m not saying that I’m right about Gallup and that you’re wrong about him... I guess what I’m saying is that to draw any conclusions about a player’s worth from PFF scores is probably not a great idea. To me, while Cooper is likely the better player, Michael isn’t that far behind him.

And It is quickly becoming apparent that Lamb is better than both of them after 5 games and no rookie offseason and very little training camp... regardless of their PFF grades.

 

[KingintheNorth]

but he screwed the play up so that a LB or DE could come in and finish. That's really his job in this scheme. Screw up the play so the LB can flow to the tackle.

Ahh, Tyrone Crawford logic.


Football players make plays.

I know the little things count and while I appreciate them, I still need you to make some plays or I got to find someone who will.

 

[KingintheNorth]

FYI, I have degrees Mathematics and Engineering. I have worked with applied statistics on a daily basis for 30 years. I understand how stats work better almost all NFL fans...

 

[AbeBeta]

Ahh, Tyrone Crawford logic.


Football players make plays.

I know the little things count and while I appreciate them, I still need you to make some plays or I got to find someone who will.

Actually, football players play the designed scheme.

Thank you for highlighting your ignorance!

 

[KingintheNorth]

Actually, football players play the designed scheme.

Well, if the scheme is garbage?

Also, when scheming you are putting players into the position to make plays. Certain positions (Rush End, 3Tech, Will LB or backside Rover) are typically schemed to make plays and/or have plays funneled to them. Your 3Tech (Trysten Hill) was not schemed to get rocked off the line of scrimmage or blow his gap upfield on run plays. Are you implying Hill was simply executing the scheme? Which 4-3 defensive scheme do you know of that succeeds when your 3Tech has 11 tackles , 0 sacks, and 2 Hurries in 211 snaps? Find me a D Line coach who would grade that player as a success? It's okay to root for a kid but we can't just make up standards of success to do it.

Also, thank you for highlighting your incredibly pedestrian knowledge of defensive x's and o's.

Come on Abe, you are Beta than that.


I'll be here all week.

 

[xwalker]

Yes, I know you like to follow me around.

 

[xwalker]

They accumulate grades per play. Stats.

You say they're meaningless. You don't understand them well enough, particularly for a guy who has been working with applied stats.

Estimates aren't "meaningless" because they have higher variance from the truth than you'd like.

What's the correlation with your scores? Zero? No? Not meaningless.

When they rated Doug Free higher than Tyron Smith back around Tyron's peak years...

If I rate strippers on a scale of 1 to 10, is that a stat...

When they rate WRs it is based on drawing an imaginary circle with the center of the circle at the center of the number on the front of the Jersey and they consider all passes within that circle as catchable regardless of all other circumstances.

If you listened instead of trying to defend some argument, you might learn something.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Grades and rankings are updated after week 5. These are total grades and rankings for the year.

QB: Dak Prescott- 85.2 Grade (7th) Passing grade 80.4 (7th)
Andy Dalton- 73.1 not enough snaps for ranking

RB: Zeke- 68.7 Grade (23rd)
T. Pollard- 66.6 not enough snaps to rank

WR: Amari- 79.6 (14th)
MG- 65.7 (71st)
Ceedee- 73.0 (35th)
N Brown- 69.7 not enough snaps to rank
C Wilson- 81.9 not enough snaps to rank

TE: Schultz- 66.3 (28th)
B. Bell- 72.8 (12th)
S. Mckeon- 50.8 not enough snaps to rank

Center: Looney- 64.0 (24th)
Biadasz- 51.7 (30th)

Guard: Martin- 86.9 (4th)
Williams- 64.5 (30th)
Mcgovern- 60.0 1 snap basically neutral not a good or bad play

Tackle: Tyron Smith- 67.8 (40th)
Steele- 54.4 (67th)
B. Knight- 60.4 (58th)

DT: A. Woods- 54.3 (84th)
Hill- 33.6 (117th worst graded DT in the entire league)
Ty Craw- 54.0 (85th)
D. Poe- 53.2 (87th)
Gallimore- 37.6 not enough snaps to rank, but really bad

DE: A. Smith- 74.3 (16th)
DLaw- 83.7 (4th)
Griffen- 50.1 (102nd)
Armstrong- 53.8 (84th)
B. Anae- 85.2 not enough snaps to rank

LB: Joe Thomas- 51.2 (43rd)
Vander Glass- 47.0 not enough snaps to rank
Jaylon- 57.5 (29th)
Bernard- 67.6 not enough snaps to rank
Gifford- 60.8 not enough snaps to rank

CB: Chido- 66.9 (29th)
Worley- 56.9 (71st)
T. Diggs- 43.0 (105th)
AB- 56.7 (72nd)
J Lew- 47.1 (92nd)
Goodwin- 82.5 relax he only had 1 snap

Safety: X Woods- 69.2 (20th)
D. Thompson- 32.8 (83rd) Ranked worst safety in the NFL
Brandon Carr- 54.4 not enough snaps to rank
D. Wilson- 42.5 (79th)
S. Parker- 51.7 not enough snaps to rank

Side Notes:
D Law and Aldon had huge weeks but bullied bad tackles.
DT's are so bad.
Jaylon had a good week.
Corners suck
Xavier Woods came back down to earth

Thanks for all the work you put in, and spreading your dime

I always wait until midseason before giving grades serious mind. The sample size can lead to a very quick boost in score that isnt really accurate in regards to the players quality this season (Dlaw). However I still do like to track players week to week

 

[buybuydandavis]

Man, you’re a good poster (this site could use more like you), but I don’t know why you don’t like Gallup very much as a player. I’m not saying that you’re wrong about Cooper being better because Cooper is really good but I remember you talking during last season (or offseason) about how over rated Gallup is and how you’d try to trade him.

I point out that Gallup is overrated because many here overrate him, saying that he's better than Cooper, and we should cut Cooper when Gallup is hitting free agency and pay Gallup.

Cooper is just in an entirely different class than Gallup. Cooper is a "you better double him" WR. He's a #1. Gallup is a "cover him and hope for the best" WR. He's a #2.

Someone had a post showing that Gallup was top, near the top of starting WRs in receiving "isolated coverage".

In *general*, I think #2s get overrated. *We* overrated Terrance. Tampa overrated Harper. It's not a fluke. It's structural with #2s. Dominant #1s take up a lot of attention, leaving #2s relatively uncovered. Add in a strong running game, and they get very uncovered.

Because they're uncovered, they get yardage. People see that yardage, compare it to yardage of the #1, and think the player is almost as good. He's a #1 too. But he's not. Those yards came in an entirely different context. One gets the attention of the defense. The other is an afterthought.

People overrate #2s. Gallup is overrated. But soon he'll be less overrated, because it will be clear that he's our #3 after Lamb. And people will notice that Wilson's numbers are pretty good too.

Gallup just ended a game with two big catches. This is the Peak Gallup moment. Sell high.

I'd trade him not because I don't like him, or think Wilson is better than him, but *because* he is overrated, and therefore we can probably get *more* value from trading him than he's worth. Profit.

Though thinking about it again, he's quality at a cheap price, and when he leaves we'll get a good comp pick anyway. Hard to get more in trade for a player than he'd get you in a comp pick when he leaves in free agency. Probably not worth trading him, though I still think this is Peak Gallup. Come 2021, no one will see him as a #1.

p.s. I don't think he's overrated *because* of PFF. PFF is just another indication. I've been saying this since last year. Same argument above. And his drop rate from last year too. Not good.