PFF Grades vs Lions

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

PFF player grades are not stats and are not facts.

You can get paid to "grade film" even if you've never played or coached football.

They do have some stats but player grades are not based on those.

One stat they have is QB targets. They divide the field into 6 areas (Right, Left, Middle and short/long). It requires watching game footage to make the determination but it is relatively easy to determine.

American Cowboy brought up Dak's passing rating, then dfense qouted him saying stats lie. So the topic of our little conversation was Dak"s passer rating not his PFF grade.

 

[Jake]

Its the weekly posting of top performers on PFF grading scale. Game ball to........ rookie Sam Williams who had one of the better stretches in recent memory in only 14 snaps. Someone find this kid more snaps. Aside from the raw stats of 2 sacks and a forced fumble, he lead the team with a PFF grade of 93.3.... which is all-pro level play, and it is the second time this season he has gone over the 90 grade mark. More snaps please!

Starting with the defense since they were the collective star of this game.

1. Micah Parsons. 90.5
2. Jourdan Lewis 88.9 - caveat is the Lions had nobody at wr
3. Diggs - 77.0
4. Hooker 68.0
5. Draw. 67.0

Offense

1. Zach Martin 76.9
2. Dalton Schultz 75.2
3. Pollard 74.8
4. CD Lamb. 73.0
5. Zeke 71.1

Biadez and McGovern also play well scoring 70.9 and 68.2

Thanks for posting. PFF makes for interesting discussion but I'm not sure why some folks get worked up over them.

They (PFF ratings) have no bearing on anything. Teams do their own grades and and base their decisions off them.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Thanks for posting. PFF makes for interesting discussion but I'm not sure why some folks get worked up over them.

They (PFF ratings) have no bearing on anything. Teams do their own grades and and base their decisions off them.

PFF works with all 32 NFL teams providing customized data to them. So, PFF is actually relevant for NFL decision makers. I know many find this shocking b/c they have done zero research when forming an opinion.

I just enjoy the discussions. The grades are flawed at several positions where playmakers are not rewarded enough. . Diggs is a great example. He had 11 INTs last year......... but also gave up more yards than any CB since they started keeping track of such things around 20 years ago. His style of play was high risk/reward. Traditionally, CBs are judged almost exclusively on INTs. So, Diggs was the first team all-pro while being one of their worst rated CBs. So, obviously, there is a huge discrepancy between how they grade and how he is perceived in the NFL. ...... The reason is obvious. The INT is just one play among 60-70 snaps that Diggs plays every game. They don't have a way of adequately weighting the "big play". So, what are we looking at you might wonder........ you are looking at consistency at CB.

Here are PFF top 5 CBs this season.

1. jack jones NE
2. Patrick Surtain jr Denver
3. jalen Ramsey LAR
4. Isaih Rodgers Ind
5. Sauce Gardner. NYJ

Pretty solid list, but Diggs is only 21st. He's still making plays but also giving up more than these guys. I think thats interesting.

 

[nathanlt]

Its the weekly posting of top performers on PFF grading scale. Game ball to........ rookie Sam Williams who had one of the better stretches in recent memory in only 14 snaps. Someone find this kid more snaps. Aside from the raw stats of 2 sacks and a forced fumble, he lead the team with a PFF grade of 93.3.... which is all-pro level play, and it is the second time this season he has gone over the 90 grade mark. More snaps please!

Starting with the defense since they were the collective star of this game.

1. Micah Parsons. 90.5
2. Jourdan Lewis 88.9 - caveat is the Lions had nobody at wr
3. Diggs - 77.0
4. Hooker 68.0
5. Draw. 67.0

Offense

1. Zach Martin 76.9
2. Dalton Schultz 75.2
3. Pollard 74.8
4. CD Lamb. 73.0
5. Zeke 71.1

Biadez and McGovern also play well scoring 70.9 and 68.2

I'd like to see what grade DLAW had on the goal line fumble, where he broke through a double team, took out the fullback, then stuffed the running back so that he fumbled. There's not a chart for that, I'd bet!

 

[DuceizBak]

But that was also the 32nd ranked defense. Rush actually played some good defenses.

He also played some pretty bad ones..Also his offensive line played damn good against the Eagles which is a top 5 defense.
The offensive line played bad against a weak pass rush group.

 

[BoysForLife]

Physically, he's plenty good enough. He just has to work out his own mental part of it and he'll be fine.

It's his 7th year now... Honest question do you think he'll ever work out the mental portion of it?

 

[thunderpimp91]

PFF works with all 32 NFL teams providing customized data to them. So, PFF is actually relevant for NFL decision makers. I know many find this shocking b/c they have done zero research when forming an opinion.

I just enjoy the discussions. The grades are flawed at several positions where playmakers are not rewarded enough. . Diggs is a great example. He had 11 INTs last year......... but also gave up more yards than any CB since they started keeping track of such things around 20 years ago. His style of play was high risk/reward. Traditionally, CBs are judged almost exclusively on INTs. So, Diggs was the first team all-pro while being one of their worst rated CBs. So, obviously, there is a huge discrepancy between how they grade and how he is perceived in the NFL. ...... The reason is obvious. The INT is just one play among 60-70 snaps that Diggs plays every game. They don't have a way of adequately weighting the "big play". So, what are we looking at you might wonder........ you are looking at consistency at CB.

Here are PFF top 5 CBs this season.

1. jack jones NE
2. Patrick Surtain jr Denver
3. jalen Ramsey LAR
4. Isaih Rodgers Ind
5. Sauce Gardner. NYJ

Pretty solid list, but Diggs is only 21st. He's still making plays but also giving up more than these guys. I think thats interesting.

Solid write up. You might as well just go ahead and copy it now, because I'm sure the same post will be needed when you post these next week haha.

 

[BoysForLife]

So you believe Dak is marginal, yet the stats say otherwise. Are his stats telling the truth or being deceitful?

Stats can certainly be, and often are, deceitful. And I would add I don't think merely wins and losses are necessarily a barometer of QB acumen either. Reference Matthew Stafford. I thought for years he was a diamond in the rough in Detroit. Get him out of there with a decent defense and a competent organization and first year, hits the pinnacle. Stafford was ways good. You could tell by watching his reads, his arm strength, his toughness etc

Dak, yeah he pads his rating against bottom dweller teams. But does he truly make everyone around him better. Does he elevate his team? Opinions vary but my opinion is no. Decent arm on shirt to medium range throws. Very questionable accuracy on most throws over 12-15 yards. Doesn't see defenses very well, either reading where pressure is coming from or seeing where the open opportunities are. Marginal QB.

Real litmus test. Dak has started 2 games this year. And the harsh truth is, the team didn't look any more explosive offensively with him under center than they did with Cooper Rush under center. That's a problem that cannot be glossed over. No matter how many late 4th quarter TD passes he throws against the Lions

 

[JBond]

Its the weekly posting of top performers on PFF grading scale. Game ball to........ rookie Sam Williams who had one of the better stretches in recent memory in only 14 snaps. Someone find this kid more snaps. Aside from the raw stats of 2 sacks and a forced fumble, he lead the team with a PFF grade of 93.3.... which is all-pro level play, and it is the second time this season he has gone over the 90 grade mark. More snaps please!

Starting with the defense since they were the collective star of this game.

1. Micah Parsons. 90.5
2. Jourdan Lewis 88.9 - caveat is the Lions had nobody at wr
3. Diggs - 77.0
4. Hooker 68.0
5. Draw. 67.0

Offense

1. Zach Martin 76.9
2. Dalton Schultz 75.2
3. Pollard 74.8
4. CD Lamb. 73.0
5. Zeke 71.1

Biadez and McGovern also play well scoring 70.9 and 68.2

Thank you.

 

[xwalker]

PFF works with all 32 NFL teams providing customized data to them. So, PFF is actually relevant for NFL decision makers. I know many find this shocking b/c they have done zero research when forming an opinion.

I just enjoy the discussions. The grades are flawed at several positions where playmakers are not rewarded enough. . Diggs is a great example. He had 11 INTs last year......... but also gave up more yards than any CB since they started keeping track of such things around 20 years ago. His style of play was high risk/reward. Traditionally, CBs are judged almost exclusively on INTs. So, Diggs was the first team all-pro while being one of their worst rated CBs. So, obviously, there is a huge discrepancy between how they grade and how he is perceived in the NFL. ...... The reason is obvious. The INT is just one play among 60-70 snaps that Diggs plays every game. They don't have a way of adequately weighting the "big play". So, what are we looking at you might wonder........ you are looking at consistency at CB.

Here are PFF top 5 CBs this season.

1. jack jones NE
2. Patrick Surtain jr Denver
3. jalen Ramsey LAR
4. Isaih Rodgers Ind
5. Sauce Gardner. NYJ

Pretty solid list, but Diggs is only 21st. He's still making plays but also giving up more than these guys. I think thats interesting.

People that defend them are probably working as a grader for them.

Team don't use their player grades..

Teams use stats that require watching game footage to determine.
Example: QB number of targets per area of the field (right, left, middle and short/long).

Belichick blurted out in a press conference that PFF players grades are a joke (His response to a question).

The sum of weekly grades gets changed at the end of the season because they don't want to have a terrible season ending grade on players that made All-Pro.

The qualifications to be a "film grader" are zero. In the past I posted a copy of their job reqs here. I also posted a resume of a person that had worked for them as a "film grader".

The logistics of it are problematic.
32 teams per week.
Approximately 150 total snaps.
11 players per team per snap.
That is 52,800 player snaps.
As in 52 thousand...
Grades published within 24 hours.

At 1 minute per snap it would be 880 hours per week.

In order to get the grades out in 24 hours they would need at least 100 people grading but more likely 200.

Getting consistent grading from over 100 different people is basically impossible.

If they were attempting to generate accurate grades they would grade each player snap with multiple graders. That would require hundreds of graders each week.

Coaches will tell you that you must know player assignments within the scheme in order to grade players.

 

[stilltheguru]

PFF works with all 32 NFL teams providing customized data to them. So, PFF is actually relevant for NFL decision makers. I know many find this shocking b/c they have done zero research when forming an opinion.

I just enjoy the discussions. The grades are flawed at several positions where playmakers are not rewarded enough. . Diggs is a great example. He had 11 INTs last year......... but also gave up more yards than any CB since they started keeping track of such things around 20 years ago. His style of play was high risk/reward. Traditionally, CBs are judged almost exclusively on INTs. So, Diggs was the first team all-pro while being one of their worst rated CBs. So, obviously, there is a huge discrepancy between how they grade and how he is perceived in the NFL. ...... The reason is obvious. The INT is just one play among 60-70 snaps that Diggs plays every game. They don't have a way of adequately weighting the "big play". So, what are we looking at you might wonder........ you are looking at consistency at CB.

Here are PFF top 5 CBs this season.

1. jack jones NE
2. Patrick Surtain jr Denver
3. jalen Ramsey LAR
4. Isaih Rodgers Ind
5. Sauce Gardner. NYJ

Pretty solid list, but Diggs is only 21st. He's still making plays but also giving up more than these guys. I think thats interesting.

I'd much rather diggs than Ramsey

 

[pansophy]

What a joke...as usual with those clowns. Dak had a 113.3 passer rating, but those clowns only gave him a 63? I bet if Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers had achieved the same stats while helping their teams get a win, their grades would have been higher.

Dak's QBR was 55 so you know efficiency and outstanding QB aren't the same thing. I'm okay with how he played -- he didn't get enough preseason work IMO and it showed on opening day and then he sat out for 5 weeks.

 

[Runwildboys]

It's his 7th year now... Honest question do you think he'll ever work out the mental portion of it?

I'm not talking about the intelligence aspect.

 

[Dorsett33]

But that was also the 32nd ranked defense. Rush actually played some good defenses.

Rush also had the benefit of OUR defense.

 

[Dorsett33]

That's because they realize they gave Dak a gift TD throw just to raise his rating not to mention his fragile ego.

Soooo....my question to you is would it be a gift td had Zeke scored on two attempts? Or, are you saying this because it's Dak? Did he call the play? And...if it was Rush, would you say the same?

 

[mmohican29]

PFF works with all 32 NFL teams providing customized data to them. So, PFF is actually relevant for NFL decision makers. I know many find this shocking b/c they have done zero research when forming an opinion.

I just enjoy the discussions. The grades are flawed at several positions where playmakers are not rewarded enough. . Diggs is a great example. He had 11 INTs last year......... but also gave up more yards than any CB since they started keeping track of such things around 20 years ago. His style of play was high risk/reward. Traditionally, CBs are judged almost exclusively on INTs. So, Diggs was the first team all-pro while being one of their worst rated CBs. So, obviously, there is a huge discrepancy between how they grade and how he is perceived in the NFL. ...... The reason is obvious. The INT is just one play among 60-70 snaps that Diggs plays every game. They don't have a way of adequately weighting the "big play". So, what are we looking at you might wonder........ you are looking at consistency at CB.

Here are PFF top 5 CBs this season.

1. jack jones NE
2. Patrick Surtain jr Denver
3. jalen Ramsey LAR
4. Isaih Rodgers Ind
5. Sauce Gardner. NYJ

Pretty solid list, but Diggs is only 21st. He's still making plays but also giving up more than these guys. I think thats interesting.

Ridiculous if Diggs is 21st. That's a joke. That's absurd @ all levels. Laughable.

 

[noshame]

Soooo....my question to you is would it be a gift td had Zeke scored on two attempts? Or, are you saying this because it's Dak? Did he call the play? And...if it was Rush, would you say the same?

Ask Romo he called it.
Yes it was a easy/safer bet to hand it to Zeke

 

[atlantacowboy]

People that defend them are probably working as a grader for them.

Team don't use their player grades..

Teams use stats that require watching game footage to determine.
Example: QB number of targets per area of the field (right, left, middle and short/long).

Belichick blurted out in a press conference that PFF players grades are a joke (His response to a question).

The sum of weekly grades gets changed at the end of the season because they don't want to have a terrible season ending grade on players that made All-Pro.

The qualifications to be a "film grader" are zero. In the past I posted a copy of their job reqs here. I also posted a resume of a person that had worked for them as a "film grader".

The logistics of it are problematic.
32 teams per week.
Approximately 150 total snaps.
11 players per team per snap.
That is 52,800 player snaps.
As in 52 thousand...
Grades published within 24 hours.

At 1 minute per snap it would be 880 hours per week.

In order to get the grades out in 24 hours they would need at least 100 people grading but more likely 200.

Getting consistent grading from over 100 different people is basically impossible.

If they were attempting to generate accurate grades they would grade each player snap with multiple graders. That would require hundreds of graders each week.

Coaches will tell you that you must know player assignments within the scheme in order to grade players.

Wrong.

I could fit everything you know about PFF on the tip of pencil. Hint: They have multiple levels of graders. They provide custom stats for all 32 NFL teams.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Ridiculous if Diggs is 21st. That's a joke. That's absurd @ all levels. Laughable.

Diggs is a playmaker not a shut down CB. The reason he got the opportunity to snag 11 INTs last year was b/c teams did not shy away from him. You are probably too young to remember Dieon Sanders, but that dude went months between anyone throwing a ball to whoever he was covering. Thats a shutdown CB. Nobody is afraid of throwing at Diggs b/c he gives up a lot of yards. Better so far this year than last year, though. So, he is still improving and striking a better balance between covering his guy and luring Qbs into throwing at him by playing too far off the WR.

 

[mmohican29]

Diggs is a playmaker not a shut down CB. The reason he got the opportunity to snag 11 INTs last year was b/c teams did not shy away from him. You are probably too young to remember Dieon Sanders, but that dude went months between anyone throwing a ball to whoever he was covering. Thats a shutdown CB. Nobody is afraid of throwing at Diggs b/c he gives up a lot of yards. Better so far this year than last year, though. So, he is still improving and striking a better balance between covering his guy and luring Qbs into throwing at him by playing too far off the WR.

No, I am very aware of Deion as I was born in 71. He was a one of a kind/elite mercenary talent.

Diggs is different, he gave up alot of yards last year but this year not so much. He's had few gaffes.

There's just no way 20 other CB's are better given his playmaking ability.